I know they said that for build 201, they were trying to implement the alien vision augmentation (or whatever it is called). I believe this would allow aliens to see other teammates/hives/etc through the walls, (possibly similar to how ns1 did it with better visuals). So, who knows...maybe you won't need a minimap (as much).
AsranielJoin Date: 2002-06-03Member: 724Members, Playtest Lead, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester, Retired Community Developer
<!--quoteo(post=1916073:date=Mar 22 2012, 02:18 AM:name=Racer1)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Racer1 @ Mar 22 2012, 02:18 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1916073"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I know they said that for build 201, they were trying to implement the alien vision augmentation (or whatever it is called). I believe this would allow aliens to see other teammates/hives/etc through the walls, (possibly similar to how ns1 did it with better visuals). So, who knows...maybe you won't need a minimap (as much).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1916090:date=Mar 21 2012, 07:50 PM:name=Skie)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Skie @ Mar 21 2012, 07:50 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1916090"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You can press the map button.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes, but he's suggesting a mini-map; A smaller version of the map, that is always visible without the need of bringing up this main detailed map. Usually located at the edges of the players screens to not obscure their vision.
So many suggestions lately have been trying to bring marine features to aliens or vice versa. I really think the beauty of NS1 is the asymmetry between the teams.
Whats next, infrared vision for marines to match alien vision?
sad. ClownJoin Date: 2012-02-25Member: 147407Members
Mini map wouldn't make sense. The marine's have the minimap because they have that HUD projection (you can even see it over their eyes on the models). Aliens have a more organic view, which should be clear of such things.
what if the aliens just had a circle that changed color from green to red, indicating pheromone's of near by marines :D?
When aliens get closer to marines they can smell it, they feel it, thus the circle begins to turn orange and then red as they draw closer. Although it doesnt actually display where the marines are. - It just hints marines have been/or are in the area. Could be op?
I think infestation/parasite handles that pretty well. We don't need a player detector when we can track them thru walls :P
I read on the design log about the internal version of AV being distance-based for entities showing up on screen, maybe there's something that could be done.
A minimap gives the marines a significant advantage when it comes to close proximity awareness of their surrounds. And for those who feel its not organic enough for alien let me remind u are perceiving the alien hud thru a very inorganic computer monitor so the organic feel can only go so far. I can go to the other extreme and say that that inorganic computer is being perceived thru organic eyes so EVERYTHING u see is organic!
So enough the organic/inorganic stuff plz.
As someone who has a not the best line system I can say a mini map would greatly increase my viability as a skulk when marines are bunny hopping around me with guns blazing.
You all seem to have missed what OP said.."Hard to navigate through a small area". he is not asking for marines to show up on the map...just simply have a minimap in the corner for navigation purposes.
Has merit as I until you learn the maps (and thats not a 2 min task) it can be a warren of corridors that need you to check the big map multiple times. Any reason aliens cant have a minimap for navigation purposes? THis is not mirroring things but allowing a level of assistance to new players who have not memorised all the maps. THe big maps a pain in the arse and I have been killed a couple of times checking that map when I first started playing/learning the maps.
From the perspective of a new player, the maps are sometimes quite difficult to navigate and alien vision more often than not makes corridors and tunnels all alike. Compounded with high travel speed (celerity makes it worse) and you may find out that you ended in a completely different part of the map than the one you wanted to arrive unless you use the map constantly, obscuring your vision.
Veteran players may scoff at this, but it's an issue for newcomers. I don't really think that the ability to memorize room names and maps should be an important part of the player skillset.
If not a minimap, perhaps aliens should be able to set for themselves markers on the map that show the way much like the marine commander does for the other marine players.
It really is a pain to navigate through the maps, when you are new. And it's one of many factors why the game isn't noob-friendly. But I'm not sure, that a mini-map will solve that. Despite that it doesn't fit the aliens. But I like Rowens idea of a waypoint-like line. (automatic preferring vents)
<!--quoteo(post=1916170:date=Mar 22 2012, 04:27 AM:name=LV426-Colonist)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (LV426-Colonist @ Mar 22 2012, 04:27 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1916170"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It doesn't make much sense for an alien to have a mini-map.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah, why do aliens have a hud then, they wouldn't have that IRL. Or a map key, do the aliens just pull out a map from their back pocket....
Newcomers, I'd say 9/10 times a newbie joins marine, because he knows atleast one thing is constant when you're carrying a gun. SHOOTING. THE. BAD. GUYS.
I like the waypoint idea. A bright neon pheromone trail Khammander could ...or nah. Khammander = Gardener. Or. Well. Bah. DOWN WITH KHAMMANDER! GORGES REIGN SUPREME! ...sorry, that's ns1 bullying in my subconscious.
IronHorseDeveloper, QA Manager, Technical Support & contributorJoin Date: 2010-05-08Member: 71669Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Subnautica Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Pistachionauts
edited June 2012
I'm having a hard time understanding why someone WANTS a minimap at all, for either team? Besides hive sight which will serve this issue in a much more elegant fashion, why would you want something as opaque and in the way as the marine minimap??
Its in the way of precious screen real estate, i already have a full complete map that shows me everything whenever <u>I</u> want it shown, not to mention how much it ruins ambushes quite frequently like a handicap.
<!--quoteo(post=1941775:date=Jun 6 2012, 03:27 PM:name=ironhorse)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ironhorse @ Jun 6 2012, 03:27 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1941775"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'm having a hard time understanding why someone WANTS a minimap at all, for either team? Besides hive sight which will serve this issue in a much more elegant fashion, why would you want something as opaque and in the way as the marine minimap??
Its in the way of precious screen real estate, i already have a full complete map that shows me everything whenever <u>I</u> want it shown, not to mention how much it ruins ambushes quite frequently like a handicap.
eh.. to each his own i guess.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> When I was playing dod, bf:v, bf:2 etc competitively I would 100% agree with the screen real estate angle. But thats solely a competitive players outlook, someone who actually has played a map enough times to know it backwards. knowing the quickest way between two points gives you an advantage over an opponent who does not. I cant see why it could not be something thats on by default but you could go into setting and turn off. Sure there will be custom hud's if there not available already.
Its not the casual players perspective at all, I have racked up over 60 hours and still struggle to find may way around some parts of certain maps. Whilst I dont think 60 hours makes me 1337 or anything like that it is a larger amount of time than I think you would want a casual/new gamer to have to invest.
The issues lie within the corridors all looking a lot a like and the maps being rabbit warrens with vents and corridors leading in all sorts of directions. Its very easy to get lost or find your way places, I think that a little minimap that did not show friend or foe is a good idea for aliens. The other good idea would be to allow them to set a way point whilst viewing the big map that then works as teh marine commanders waypoints. This would allow a new player be able to get to all these exotic sounding room names when their team mates call out for help, having to navigate whilst checking that big map is suicidal.
<!--quoteo(post=1941775:date=Jun 5 2012, 10:27 PM:name=ironhorse)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ironhorse @ Jun 5 2012, 10:27 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1941775"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'm having a hard time understanding why someone WANTS a minimap at all, for either team? Besides hive sight which will serve this issue in a much more elegant fashion, why would you want something as opaque and in the way as the marine minimap??
Its in the way of precious screen real estate, i already have a full complete map that shows me everything whenever <u>I</u> want it shown, not to mention how much it ruins ambushes quite frequently like a handicap.
eh.. to each his own i guess.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I like the idea of a minimap because its serves to give the player something he/she can't have when perceiving a world through a computer monitor. Right now you are sitting reading this post. But you, maybe on a subconscious level are aware of things around you that your eyes aren't directly observing. Sounds, lighting, shadows, peripheral vision picking stray movements, ect... give us as well as animals (like these aliens) what I call immediate area awareness.
You can have none of this in a video game and we as humans take it for granted irl. A mini-map gives some of that immediate area awareness back to us through a different medium.
That is why i like minimaps and they don't have to destroy monitor real estate if positioned smartly and given some degree of transparency.
IronHorseDeveloper, QA Manager, Technical Support & contributorJoin Date: 2010-05-08Member: 71669Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Subnautica Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Pistachionauts
No i mean i get the need for a map, thats why i have the map key pressed continuously. But that map tells me everything about the entire world, whereas the minimap is by design severely limited by comparison - AND comes with those other nifty downsides i listed above.
A need to be orientated and a tool in which to do so makes complete sense, and how well does that minimap accomplish this in comparison to the full map? IMO not very well So i still have a hard time seeing why its needed, let alone forced? Being toggleable would make me happy enough, i just am confused the benefit of it from other's eyes, so thanks for that.
<!--quoteo(post=1941563:date=Jun 5 2012, 01:38 AM:name=Arkanti)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Arkanti @ Jun 5 2012, 01:38 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1941563"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->If the aliens aren't meant to have a minimap then by that logic they shouldn't have access to the map through Tab either...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
IronHorseDeveloper, QA Manager, Technical Support & contributorJoin Date: 2010-05-08Member: 71669Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Subnautica Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Pistachionauts
<!--quoteo(post=1941950:date=Jun 6 2012, 08:05 PM:name=internetexplorer)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (internetexplorer @ Jun 6 2012, 08:05 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1941950"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I see nobody is prepared to respond to this...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> <!--quoteo(post=1941775:date=Jun 5 2012, 09:27 PM:name=ironhorse)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ironhorse @ Jun 5 2012, 09:27 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1941775"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Besides hive sight which will serve this issue in a much more elegant fashion<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> @onosfactory: nope, not yet. tho i am asking for it! :)
Comments
That has been ingame since.. forever.
Yes, but he's suggesting a mini-map; A smaller version of the map, that is always visible without the need of bringing up this main detailed map. Usually located at the edges of the players screens to not obscure their vision.
Whats next, infrared vision for marines to match alien vision?
They need something else. Something more "alien".
When aliens get closer to marines they can smell it, they feel it, thus the circle begins to turn orange and then red as they draw closer. Although it doesnt actually display where the marines are. - It just hints marines have been/or are in the area.
Could be op?
I read on the design log about the internal version of AV being distance-based for entities showing up on screen, maybe there's something that could be done.
A minimap gives the marines a significant advantage when it comes to close proximity awareness of their surrounds. And for those who feel its not organic enough for alien let me remind u are perceiving the alien hud thru a very inorganic computer monitor so the organic feel can only go so far. I can go to the other extreme and say that that inorganic computer is being perceived thru organic eyes so EVERYTHING u see is organic!
So enough the organic/inorganic stuff plz.
As someone who has a not the best line system I can say a mini map would greatly increase my viability as a skulk when marines are bunny hopping around me with guns blazing.
he is not asking for marines to show up on the map...just simply have a minimap in the corner for navigation purposes.
Has merit as I until you learn the maps (and thats not a 2 min task) it can be a warren of corridors that need you to check the big map multiple times.
Any reason aliens cant have a minimap for navigation purposes? THis is not mirroring things but allowing a level of assistance to new players who have not memorised all the maps.
THe big maps a pain in the arse and I have been killed a couple of times checking that map when I first started playing/learning the maps.
Veteran players may scoff at this, but it's an issue for newcomers. I don't really think that the ability to memorize room names and maps should be an important part of the player skillset.
If not a minimap, perhaps aliens should be able to set for themselves markers on the map that show the way much like the marine commander does for the other marine players.
Yeah, why do aliens have a hud then, they wouldn't have that IRL. Or a map key, do the aliens just pull out a map from their back pocket....
It's a video game!
I like the waypoint idea. A bright neon pheromone trail Khammander could ...or nah. Khammander = Gardener. Or. Well. Bah. DOWN WITH KHAMMANDER! GORGES REIGN SUPREME! ...sorry, that's ns1 bullying in my subconscious.
Alien players shouldn't be allowed to play NS2 on computers its far to human like...
Besides hive sight which will serve this issue in a much more elegant fashion, why would you want something as opaque and in the way as the marine minimap??
Its in the way of precious screen real estate, i already have a full complete map that shows me everything whenever <u>I</u> want it shown, not to mention how much it ruins ambushes quite frequently like a handicap.
eh.. to each his own i guess.
Besides hive sight which will serve this issue in a much more elegant fashion, why would you want something as opaque and in the way as the marine minimap??
Its in the way of precious screen real estate, i already have a full complete map that shows me everything whenever <u>I</u> want it shown, not to mention how much it ruins ambushes quite frequently like a handicap.
eh.. to each his own i guess.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
When I was playing dod, bf:v, bf:2 etc competitively I would 100% agree with the screen real estate angle.
But thats solely a competitive players outlook, someone who actually has played a map enough times to know it backwards.
knowing the quickest way between two points gives you an advantage over an opponent who does not.
I cant see why it could not be something thats on by default but you could go into setting and turn off.
Sure there will be custom hud's if there not available already.
Its not the casual players perspective at all, I have racked up over 60 hours and still struggle to find may way around some parts of certain maps. Whilst I dont think 60 hours makes me 1337 or anything like that it is a larger amount of time than I think you would want a casual/new gamer to have to invest.
The issues lie within the corridors all looking a lot a like and the maps being rabbit warrens with vents and corridors leading in all sorts of directions.
Its very easy to get lost or find your way places, I think that a little minimap that did not show friend or foe is a good idea for aliens.
The other good idea would be to allow them to set a way point whilst viewing the big map that then works as teh marine commanders waypoints.
This would allow a new player be able to get to all these exotic sounding room names when their team mates call out for help, having to navigate whilst checking that big map is suicidal.
Besides hive sight which will serve this issue in a much more elegant fashion, why would you want something as opaque and in the way as the marine minimap??
Its in the way of precious screen real estate, i already have a full complete map that shows me everything whenever <u>I</u> want it shown, not to mention how much it ruins ambushes quite frequently like a handicap.
eh.. to each his own i guess.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I like the idea of a minimap because its serves to give the player something he/she can't have when perceiving a world through a computer monitor. Right now you are sitting reading this post. But you, maybe on a subconscious level are aware of things around you that your eyes aren't directly observing. Sounds, lighting, shadows, peripheral vision picking stray movements, ect... give us as well as animals (like these aliens) what I call immediate area awareness.
You can have none of this in a video game and we as humans take it for granted irl. A mini-map gives some of that immediate area awareness back to us through a different medium.
That is why i like minimaps and they don't have to destroy monitor real estate if positioned smartly and given some degree of transparency.
A need to be orientated and a tool in which to do so makes complete sense, and how well does that minimap accomplish this in comparison to the full map? IMO not very well
So i still have a hard time seeing why its needed, let alone forced? Being toggleable would make me happy enough, i just am confused the benefit of it from other's eyes, so thanks for that.
I see nobody is prepared to respond to this...
<!--quoteo(post=1941775:date=Jun 5 2012, 09:27 PM:name=ironhorse)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ironhorse @ Jun 5 2012, 09:27 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1941775"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Besides hive sight which will serve this issue in a much more elegant fashion<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
@onosfactory: nope, not yet. tho i am asking for it! :)