Role of the fade.
sebu
Join Date: 2011-09-21 Member: 122375Members
Join Date: 2011-09-21 Member: 122375Members
I know that there is a TON of threads about the current fade, BUT
take a look at this, <u><b>you can skip around 9 min to see the rines overhelmed.</b></u>
<a href="http://youtu.be/XM50Y_hRM18" target="_blank">http://youtu.be/XM50Y_hRM18</a>
I asked, that was this a full on round simulation and they responded that it was. It wasn't perfect execution tactic, but the it shows the metagame pretty clearly. As now i myself won't bother playing ns2 because i have so much freezing going on (whit stable 30 fps), but i cannot state how worried I am about the role of fade in NS2.
As that video shows the aliens have 3 fades around 10 min or below. Whit chambers 2nd h, dunno how many RTs. That is not pro play though, but THAT represents casual play.
As it stands, in alien side you do not have ANY punishment if your fading. As your commander can cap the rts which are VERY hard to pressure as casual marines. When the engine gets stable enough it can be a different story, but now you really can't.
This offcourse involves gorges downgraded role aswell just as combat healer/harras unit in combat. Because in NS1 you needed to evolve as gorge to build those vital RTs adn then go back to combat form.
I don't have any ideas currently wehit this res system as alien commanders are involved. How can you share more responsibility among the alien team, than everyone just waiting for 2nd hive and evolve to fade.
I remember in NS1 ENSLeague, where you needed to have clear plan who was going to fade, and how. Usually the movement chamb was only option for most of the hives. So the Alien gameplay divided (6 v 6), like 1 goes to gorge 1 lerks 1 or two just builds RTs and goes back to skulk, one makes the hive and 1 or two fades. YOU simply couldn't have more than 2 fades for starters. And you still needed to fight your ass off in order to remain stable at the point u will be getting those fades out.
Just FE.
<a href="http://youtu.be/CtHBKq3RYcY" target="_blank">http://youtu.be/CtHBKq3RYcY</a>
That wasnt the best game, and doesn't demonstrate fully what i'm after but it shows the fundamentals.
So in conclusion when you compare the NS1 and NS2 alien gameplay. There are so much less risk in alien gameplay or not risk at all in evloving to fade. I mean, commander builds the chambers, rts, hives for you and you just can easily evolve to fade asap 2nd hive is up. In most cases and pro play, this would be the same as insta win to aliens right now.
SO what i'm asking, that IS this the way that UWE is going for or do they have something in mind to balance and have players divide roles more greatly. Now i see alien play MUCH more one dimensional (excluding alien commander), than NS1.
Any toughts?
take a look at this, <u><b>you can skip around 9 min to see the rines overhelmed.</b></u>
<a href="http://youtu.be/XM50Y_hRM18" target="_blank">http://youtu.be/XM50Y_hRM18</a>
I asked, that was this a full on round simulation and they responded that it was. It wasn't perfect execution tactic, but the it shows the metagame pretty clearly. As now i myself won't bother playing ns2 because i have so much freezing going on (whit stable 30 fps), but i cannot state how worried I am about the role of fade in NS2.
As that video shows the aliens have 3 fades around 10 min or below. Whit chambers 2nd h, dunno how many RTs. That is not pro play though, but THAT represents casual play.
As it stands, in alien side you do not have ANY punishment if your fading. As your commander can cap the rts which are VERY hard to pressure as casual marines. When the engine gets stable enough it can be a different story, but now you really can't.
This offcourse involves gorges downgraded role aswell just as combat healer/harras unit in combat. Because in NS1 you needed to evolve as gorge to build those vital RTs adn then go back to combat form.
I don't have any ideas currently wehit this res system as alien commanders are involved. How can you share more responsibility among the alien team, than everyone just waiting for 2nd hive and evolve to fade.
I remember in NS1 ENSLeague, where you needed to have clear plan who was going to fade, and how. Usually the movement chamb was only option for most of the hives. So the Alien gameplay divided (6 v 6), like 1 goes to gorge 1 lerks 1 or two just builds RTs and goes back to skulk, one makes the hive and 1 or two fades. YOU simply couldn't have more than 2 fades for starters. And you still needed to fight your ass off in order to remain stable at the point u will be getting those fades out.
Just FE.
<a href="http://youtu.be/CtHBKq3RYcY" target="_blank">http://youtu.be/CtHBKq3RYcY</a>
That wasnt the best game, and doesn't demonstrate fully what i'm after but it shows the fundamentals.
So in conclusion when you compare the NS1 and NS2 alien gameplay. There are so much less risk in alien gameplay or not risk at all in evloving to fade. I mean, commander builds the chambers, rts, hives for you and you just can easily evolve to fade asap 2nd hive is up. In most cases and pro play, this would be the same as insta win to aliens right now.
SO what i'm asking, that IS this the way that UWE is going for or do they have something in mind to balance and have players divide roles more greatly. Now i see alien play MUCH more one dimensional (excluding alien commander), than NS1.
Any toughts?
Comments
Anyway, my personal worries about the fade and its role are thusly. To me it appears that the fade has almost become the marine comm of the alien team. Allow me to explain. When a game starts, there are two possibilities for the marine team. They either have a skilled and experienced comm, and can begin to attempt to defeat the alien threat, or they do not have such a player, and can begin to prepare for an onos rush. Now this is an unfortunate situation, but what can you do? This is a strategical game, and without a strategical player the marines stand little chance, I think that's the way most people like it.
Now the reason I feel that the fade has become the marine comm of the alien team, is because it is another <b>vital</b> skill that a team requires, otherwise they automatically lose. Some people are bad at fade, some people prefer to play the other life forms, I personally play with 400 ping and 10 fps so wouldn't waste the res. Essentially, without a well skilled fade, aliens will almost certainly lose. The other aliens become so utterly useless by themselves at mid to late game that fades have become mandatory.
Anyway, my personal worries about the fade and its role are thusly. To me it appears that the fade has almost become the marine comm of the alien team. Allow me to explain. When a game starts, there are two possibilities for the marine team. They either have a skilled and experienced comm, and can begin to attempt to defeat the alien threat, or they do not have such a player, and can begin to prepare for an onos rush. Now this is an unfortunate situation, but what can you do? This is a strategical game, and without a strategical player the marines stand little chance, I think that's the way most people like it.
Now the reason I feel that the fade has become the marine comm of the alien team, is because it is another <b>vital</b> skill that a team requires, otherwise they automatically lose. Some people are bad at fade, some people prefer to play the other life forms, I personally play with 400 ping and 10 fps so wouldn't waste the res. Essentially, without a well skilled fade, aliens will almost certainly lose. The other aliens become so utterly useless by themselves at mid to late game that fades have become mandatory.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
True, but this just proves better that when you have GOOD, or PERFECT play enviroment as these guys in the UWE studio have, you can easily outplay rines whit fades. And thats even the case whit my new laptop (i had usually over 20 kills as fade whit no deaths, and was only killed when my client was frozen, and i helped the team). I mean, few decent fades are enought to end the game. I do not see them as alien commanders, but i see them superior mapcontrollers, which can easily force squads of rines to stay in one area eventhough they would need to move.
It's good and kinda same as NS1, but I DO NOT like the fact that it does not involve any risk at all to evolve fade.
The way people should approach fades is like this: we have x marines who need to travel y distance to their destination while the fade will kill one marine every z amount of time, can we make it? You'll find that with 3 or 4 shotgun marines in an area, a fade cannot simply blink in and kill one and leave. The fade will tend to wear everyone down until nobody has any armour left, then blink in to one shot the survivors. Without an outpost backing them up, marines will and should lose to a fade. That's my opinion anyway.
The way people should approach fades is like this: we have x marines who need to travel y distance to their destination while the fade will kill one marine every z amount of time, can we make it? You'll find that with 3 or 4 shotgun marines in an area, a fade cannot simply blink in and kill one and leave. The fade will tend to wear everyone down until nobody has any armour left, then blink in to one shot the survivors. Without an outpost backing them up, marines will and should lose to a fade. That's my opinion anyway.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think that too. But its just the current state of the game (aiming is pretty bad). I do not think that its gonna change that radiacally towards v 1.0 though.
In pro play those X numbers are completely irrelevant. Skillcap is so different so anything can happen.
I'm not here to complain about fades imbalance, as i personally think that it is, but im wondering about its overall role.
Its pretty commonly held opinion though that too much rests on the second hive for aliens. Aliens go from struggling to keep the marines back, to a far more comfortable stage until marines get flamethrowers and jetpacks.