ARCS optimization

RiCexEaTeRRiCexEaTeR Join Date: 2010-05-10 Member: 71700Members, Reinforced - Shadow
edited March 2012 in Ideas and Suggestions
<div class="IPBDescription">'Cuz 20 rez for a cyst killing machine is crazy</div>1. State the problem/Issue you are tackling.
Arc's long charge up time can be exploited by alien commanders by placing cysts in regular intervals causing arc's to be somewhat ineffective.

2. Suggestion or solution.
Arc target priority

3. Description and implementation.
When multiple alien structures are within range and LOS, have an algorithm that prioritizes structures. For example, Hydra's first, then Hives, etc...etc...

4. Reason you are submitting (not found on search/ expanded out of current discussion/ old thread has train wrecked etc).
Found arc scrambled eggs but wasn't in the direction I wanted the conversation to go.



----Original post---------
Arcs cause a lot of damage. But when 4 arcs take ten seconds to fire at the same mini cyst, there is a lot of waste there.

How about we make the shots more frequent and do less damage. That way alien players would aslo know sooner when the hive is under attack/dying/dead

Current

900dmg/shot = 10sec/shot = 90DPS

Proposed
3sec/shot = 270dmg/shot = 90DPS

Comments

  • PhannehPhanneh Join Date: 2003-10-29 Member: 22125Members, Constellation
    edited March 2012
    I think you would end up with a minigun type effect. The arcs would be just shooting nonstop as long as it had someone providing line of sight. I think that this would end up be a huge buff to the marines, because right now it does take forever for the marines to push with arcs, which gives the aliens a better chance of fighting them off. I think a better route to go would be giving the arcs a way to prioritize targets. Ie. clicking on an arc and being able to have it focus on something in particular, like: focus defense structures, focus neutral structures, focus offensive structures.
  • rantologyrantology Join Date: 2012-02-05 Member: 143750Members, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Gold, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Gold
    edited March 2012
    They just need a targeting priority set in place so they don't try and go for cysts and eggs over a hive. And on top of that it would be nice if the comm could manually target them.

    But outside of that they are very very dangerous to aliens now...even just a single one.
  • Racer1Racer1 Join Date: 2002-11-22 Member: 9615Members
    An alien comm can usually drop one cyst between each arc fire. If placed correctly (between the arc and hive, but far enough away), this can effectively nullify most of the arc's effectivity.

    I agree that non-cyst prioritization would be nice and probably solve the problem.
  • ÒŗăNģёÒŗăNģё Join Date: 2012-02-09 Member: 144437Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
    What are you smokin? Arcs blow up anything in their range
  • paradoxumparadoxum United Kingdom Join Date: 2012-03-05 Member: 148193Members
    can't the marine commander just select the arcs and tell them to attack things manually?
  • AemrodAemrod Join Date: 2012-02-18 Member: 146665Members
    well i do pick the target for arcs after every scan. I usualy gather 2-3 arcs and blow the hive first if its in range. So what im saying there is targeting for arcs isnt there?
  • RiCexEaTeRRiCexEaTeR Join Date: 2010-05-10 Member: 71700Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    Reviving this thread. Now that cysts use personal res instead of energy this is more easily exploited then ever. Hell i just used this last night. Place a cyst next to the arc and one a little ways (out of range of the splash) and the arcs will alternate between the two cysts.
  • FlounderFlounder Join Date: 2004-09-12 Member: 31656Members
    Sounds like arcs are going to have to ignore cysts (at least as a workaround for now). I think this new issue is deserving of its own thread, btw.
  • SpaPalSpaPal Join Date: 2012-02-28 Member: 147699Members
    You can manually target with the arc by selection attack and then clicking on the enemy structure (as long as its in range).
  • GrissiGrissi Join Date: 2003-08-28 Member: 20314Members, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow
    I think arcs should always target the closest structures for balance, this allows aliens to postitons sturcutres to delay a siege. If I could select a target I could easily select a structures in the middle for maximum aoe damage wich would be a major buff to arc.

    I do however think there is 1 issue with arcs in ns2, that is to bring them in early in the game. Since you are forced to use your team res into other stuff paying for 40 res for a single arc is to painful to be viable. Marines also need 2 arcs to battle gorge healing.
    I think arcs should be made cheaper, their range/attack damage can be tweaked to compencate. Then have upgrades to bring it to full power for the late game(more range, more damage etc).
  • Kama_BlueKama_Blue Join Date: 2012-03-13 Member: 148710Members
    From an Alien point of view, Arcs are absurdly unbalanced as is. Considering how weak hives already are to GL spam or just 5-6 marines just rushing in and unloading clips into one.

    Them killing cysts/hydras/res nodes is probably the only thing giving aliens enough time to push the marines back and stop them.


    <b>You can't honestly think building a phasegate/armory, lining a doorway with mines and camping a hallway with 7 marines each with a shotgun while an ARC two shots an alien hive is a BALANCED strategy.</b>
  • FlounderFlounder Join Date: 2004-09-12 Member: 31656Members
    I notice that arcs seem to properly ignore cysts if a hive is withing their target range, so the OP's main concern seems to be addressed.
  • FloodinatorFloodinator [HBZ] Member Join Date: 2005-02-22 Member: 42087Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    Arcs don't always get the hive first, but you can manually comand the Arcs to shoot the hive.

    Arcs need to be nerfed either in DMG or in HP, because 2 Arcs destroy any building near the hive with 1 shot and the Hive with the next 2 shots of both. But it is almost impossible to hinder the Arcs to place the 1. shot, so that you lose houndreds of res in 10s.

    Also if a marine com can send 2 arcs to 2 different hives, he will get a high chance of killing one, because it takes a long time for 2 or 3 skulks to kill 2 lone ARCs, not to mention how long it takes if you have some rines covering.

    We had a game today where the enemy com wouldn't stop producing ARCs and sending them all over the map keeping us busy killing them but losing several hives and 1000s of res in structures. Finally after 70min aliens gave up, because it was stress pure to be aware of any ARCs on the map, hunting and destroying them and not having the time to the push of 6 rines in reactor because Cross and FC was under siege... Best game ever.
  • WheeeeWheeee Join Date: 2003-02-18 Member: 13713Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    have you seen arcs recently? a solid shot from 3 arcs will totally flatten everything around a hive. it's no longer just a cyst killing machine, it's overpowered.
  • AemrodAemrod Join Date: 2012-02-18 Member: 146665Members
    edited March 2012
    Well several days ago i understand how arcs are overpowered(i killed 3 hives in 5 minutes, well arcs did) I built 4 arcs and got them near the hive scaned, selected target as hive, and first hive was down before i noticed well that continued till aliens last hive. I was like <a href="http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-5k1Shl3tILc/TzDEDhlUSSI/AAAAAAAAOkw/AHFTgyZYd8c/s1600/rainbow_puke.jpg" target="_blank">RAINBOW</a>

    After that i instructed a friend to do same thing while i play in alien team. Well we lost. Those damn arcs are really really hard to destroy its not possible with a skulk or one fade. All alien team must attack them which is not gonna happen really or several lerks will bilebomb(we tried we took down arcs after they got the
    <a href="http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lyuovvOgD01qcjp30o2_250.jpg" target="_blank">hive</a>).

    Well they need to be optimized for sure. And 20 res is too low for something that powerful imo.
  • swalkswalk Say hello to my little friend. Join Date: 2011-01-20 Member: 78384Members, Squad Five Blue
    edited March 2012
    <!--quoteo(post=1915046:date=Mar 19 2012, 04:02 PM:name=Kama_Blue)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kama_Blue @ Mar 19 2012, 04:02 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1915046"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->From an Alien point of view, Arcs are absurdly unbalanced as is. Considering how weak hives already are to GL spam or just 5-6 marines just rushing in and unloading clips into one.

    Them killing cysts/hydras/res nodes is probably the only thing giving aliens enough time to push the marines back and stop them.


    <b>You can't honestly think building a phasegate/armory, lining a doorway with mines and camping a hallway with 7 marines each with a shotgun while an ARC two shots an alien hive is a BALANCED strategy.</b><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    This post is not truthful. Along with a few others in this thread.
    The ARCs are ALREADY able to manually select a target.
    It's written a few times in this thread, but it seems the message didn't get across to everyone.
    ARCs were really well balanced when gorge had his ranged bilebomb. It cleaned them up, fast.
    This is one of the reasons why gorge needs his bilebomb back.
    Lerk bilebomb will never cut it, it requires the lerk to get too close to the ARCs. The gorge could take cover and bile from a distance.
    But against hive 1 aliens, ARCs are really strong, and they should be.
    If you only have one hive and you got ARCs on your doorstep, you're about to lose the game.
    One ARC does not only take two shots to kill a hive, I don't know why you're making up stories.
  • SpaPalSpaPal Join Date: 2012-02-28 Member: 147699Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1916115:date=Mar 21 2012, 04:48 PM:name=swalk)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (swalk @ Mar 21 2012, 04:48 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1916115"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->This post is not truthful. Along with a few others in this thread.
    The ARCs are ALREADY able to manually select a target.
    It's written a few times in this thread, but it seems the message didn't get across to everyone.
    ARCs were really well balanced when gorge had his ranged bilebomb. It cleaned them up, fast.
    This is one of the reasons why gorge needs his bilebomb back.
    Lerk bilebomb will never cut it, it requires the lerk to get too close to the ARCs. The gorge could take cover and bile from a distance.
    But against hive 1 aliens, ARCs are really strong, and they should be.
    If you only have one hive and you got ARCs on your doorstep, you're about to lose the game.
    One ARC does not only take two shots to kill a hive, I don't know why you're making up stories.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    To clarify a single arc would take 4 shots if there is no crag or gorge healing. I actually played on the alien side the other night where the marine com brought 4 arcs to crushing hive while the rest of the team was engaged on the other side of the map.

    In context that was 80 tres to take out one hive and as an onos with one skulk we were able to get 1 of the arcs down while they were deploying before the arc volleys killed the crushing hive. In the end the skulk and I took out the 4 arcs but if there were 3-4 marines backing up the arcs the outcome of the game would have been very different.

    It was a smart move from the commanders perspective because it worked but in reality that was a hell of a gamble, 80 tres to take out 1 of 3 hives. While I do think arcs are fine dps wise they have a lot of damn hit points and as an alien, by the time marines have arcs at your doorstep and your still at 1 hive then the writing is on the wall.
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