I always thought the HMG was balanced and had its own role because of the accuracy spread and reload time being way different. It was basically an LMG but with longer periods of continuous firing, at the cost of longer periods where you can't fire at all. It seems like the natural choice is to make the exosuit's minigun mimic that idea (with the overheating mechanic).
I don't see what all the fuss is about, except that the exosuit isn't in the game yet..?
What I miss is a weapon with some reach. Will normal marines get any machine-gun style weapon which is more powerful/ has better performance at range than the basic LMG?
IeptBarakatThe most difficult name to speak ingame.Join Date: 2009-07-10Member: 68107Members, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow
<!--quoteo(post=1909669:date=Mar 3 2012, 08:55 PM:name=PsiWarp)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (PsiWarp @ Mar 3 2012, 08:55 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1909669"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><a href="http://a3.ec-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/96/69c4ad8e70484bf4bac15c454a8a9b40/l.jpg" target="_blank">This is Heavy Weapons Guy...</a>
I sorta want to see an Exosuit wield a Minigun and a Flamethrower. Nothing says badass more than bullets and fire.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I want to see dual wielding flamethrowers. The exosuit loadout for any true pyromaniac.
honestly, 3 ppl could easily kill an onos... 1 with any gun but able to dodge around and get the onos's attention, while the other 2 use the secondary fire on their pistol... also, if an onos is retreating use the secondary pistol fire and u're likely to kill him fleeing.
So I figure that the Rail gun will have a bonus vs structures kinda like the Grenade launcher, and the Mini-Gun will be best for taking down life forms? Or are the Rail guns meant as a 1-shot-kill style weapon with huge damage but the trade off is slower rate of fire and having to aim exactly to get the kill? Cory????
<!--quoteo(post=1909782:date=Mar 4 2012, 02:23 AM:name=Sampson)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Sampson @ Mar 4 2012, 02:23 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1909782"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->anyone else worried that the marines will eventually be OP?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No because it's about as likely to happen as it is for water to keep falling from the sky
The balance in a game like this swings back and forth when the developers change it (and try to perfect it). It also swings back and forth when people discover new things they can do in the game.
Whether something is 'overpowered' is very subjective. Some people think fades are overpowered right now, but I just jump on boxes and shotgun them like they're nothing. It's usually a matter of perspective, because most players don't have the experience or talent to say how something should be with any kind of clout (and the developers aren't always clear about their intentions).
I am curious on what the plans are to balance out all this bad ass tech the marines will have. A wall of goo? Shift? There has to be more coming for at least 3 of the alien models.
Kouji_SanSr. Hινε UÏкεεÏεг - EUPT DeputyThe NetherlandsJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
<!--quoteo(post=1909586:date=Mar 3 2012, 10:22 PM:name=ScardyBob)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ScardyBob @ Mar 3 2012, 10:22 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1909586"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Awww, crushing my dreams of being a duel axe wielding menace. The only thing better than one switch axe is two!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Go back to your RPG Axe wielding Dorf :P
A basic run down is that Scotty and Klevertommy ( both pro players ) and a few others evolve to Lerk and then proceed to area denial and pick off the marine team. The marines fight back with the LMG and pistols but only manage to wound the Lerks who skillfully hang back out of shotgun range. My point is the LMG and pistols just don't cut it and whats the point of Shotguns and Flamer throwers when the Lerk can easily attack you from long range. If the marine team wanted to invest in a AdvArmory upgrade to a HMG type weapon they could have had a decent chance to fight back. All they would havce needed was a squad with 1 player with a HMG and 2 or 3 LMG marines to cover him.
It seems thgat the argument against the HMG is that players will want to rambo with it. But this vid shows that if hypothetically a player with a HMG was to shuffle (weight penalty) into reactor or crevice by himself he could easily be outflanked by the aliens and lose asnd expensive weapon. But as I explained if the HMG player was part of squad it would be much more effective in a front-on push and if anything else the other squad memebers could pick up the HMG if the player goes down.
I mean the Exo+Minigun sounds great but it's a bit pointless if you can't even survive long enough to buy a protolab?
I don't agree Gorge. The layout of that room makes any form of attack an advantage to the Kharaa team. Skulks can move up that reactor and into that vent very very easily. I often see teams of 3 or 4 marines get smoked by lerk/skulk 2 man teams in this room.
You can keep the aliens at bay with only a SG team every time. The Key is moving as a team. The nade launcher and moving together as a team and keeping the pressure on the aliens will keep them out of this room and force them to stand off in Glass hallway. Also mines placed on the walls and in vents is far better a tactic than needed some kind of HMG.
As soon as the marines tech up, lerks get smoked everytime has been my experience.
I don't think a HMG would have made any difference in this example you posted. The marines were on the losing side of that match, the Kharaa had that map locked down Oh and in case you missed it that was Tommy and Scotty, they might be the best 2 man team in NS2 IMO, so I would expect them to keep the marines at bay. Go watch some NS2HD videos with team Mr. and you'll see what I mean.
<!--quoteo(post=1909792:date=Mar 4 2012, 03:24 AM:name=internetexplorer)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (internetexplorer @ Mar 4 2012, 03:24 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1909792"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->No because it's about as likely to happen as it is for water to keep falling from the sky
The balance in a game like this swings back and forth when the developers change it (and try to perfect it). It also swings back and forth when people discover new things they can do in the game.
Whether something is 'overpowered' is very subjective. Some people think fades are overpowered right now, but I just jump on boxes and shotgun them like they're nothing. It's usually a matter of perspective, because most players don't have the experience or talent to say how something should be with any kind of clout (and the developers aren't always clear about their intentions).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
i just mean in the sense that aliens pretty much have everything in-game (at least the alien lifeforms, still waiting on Shift), and the marines have yet to get basically a new class, 2 new guns, the ability to dual wield them... all i can see the devs doing is increasing the health of every alien 10 fold...
<!--quoteo(post=1909497:date=Mar 3 2012, 05:52 PM:name=Squeal_Like_A_Pig)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Squeal_Like_A_Pig @ Mar 3 2012, 05:52 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1909497"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The plan is to be able to fire each one independently, so when dual wielding you can alternate, and control overheating so when one gun is out of commission you can still fire the other one<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This reminds me of the Akimbo Uzi's in Science & Industry
from wikipedia: <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->A railgun is an electrically powered artillery gun that accelerates a conductive projectile along electromagnetic rails<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
essentially, it just fires a slug really really fast.
is there any concept art yet of the exosuit or an ETA for when it will be added?
IronHorseDeveloper, QA Manager, Technical Support & contributorJoin Date: 2010-05-08Member: 71669Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Subnautica Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Pistachionauts
just like quake3 when it was first released (they later patched it) i might have to mod ns2 to include those Q2 spirals!! :) ..it just felt.... <b>right</b>
If minigun is to assault rifle, then railgun is to shotgun, right? Although it could be a railgun pistol as a spread of rails seems kinda weird in a way. That's how I see it, surprise meh Cory!
IronHorseDeveloper, QA Manager, Technical Support & contributorJoin Date: 2010-05-08Member: 71669Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Subnautica Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Pistachionauts
my biggest concern is: wth is the railgun (or the concussion rifle if that's still planned?) going to do against fades? the design i remember reading specifically mentioned not being able to chase a fade, but if you ambushed it, it was over with that weapon. what effect is planned for either of these? knocking the fade out of blink temporarily?? seeing the fade even when he's in blink?? i'm just having a hard time coming up with a possible answer in my head that doesn't equate with the shotgun in use/timing?
yup.. i'm gonna have to get started now.. :) <img src="http://i.imgur.com/nPDvj.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
Railgun seems like it'd be, well, a railgun. Fires a big powerful bullet that does a lot of damage in one shot. Would be ideal for anything not too fast and especially good against onoses because of their hide armor, high damage low number of shots is the best way to hurt an onos.
It'd presumably also be pretty good against clustered buildings if it goes through things, as well as having a much higher initial impact/response time than the minigun, the minigun might do a lot of damage over time, but it requires spin up time to start firing, while you can unload dual railguns into a fade the instant you aim at it, which gets it into 'oh jesus crap ow that hurt' mode all the faster, and away from your teammates.
<!--quoteo(post=1909901:date=Mar 4 2012, 11:37 AM:name=gamester_5)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (gamester_5 @ Mar 4 2012, 11:37 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1909901"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I am curious on what the plans are to balance out all this bad ass tech the marines will have. A wall of goo? Shift? There has to be more coming for at least 3 of the alien models.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
there are ways to balance things that don't include giving the enemy a bigger weapon ad nauseum, but that's probably why you're not a game developer.
how about this; the goo walls completely trap exosuits and can /only/ be removed with flamethrowers
Comments
It seems like the natural choice is to make the exosuit's minigun mimic that idea (with the overheating mechanic).
I don't see what all the fuss is about, except that the exosuit isn't in the game yet..?
I'll be looking forward to the exo suits and accompanying guns.
I sorta want to see an Exosuit wield a Minigun and a Flamethrower. Nothing says badass more than bullets and fire.
I sorta want to see an Exosuit wield a Minigun and a Flamethrower. Nothing says badass more than bullets and fire.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I want to see dual wielding flamethrowers. The exosuit loadout for any true pyromaniac.
Or are the Rail guns meant as a 1-shot-kill style weapon with huge damage but the trade off is slower rate of fire and having to aim exactly to get the kill?
Cory????
No because it's about as likely to happen as it is for water to keep falling from the sky
The balance in a game like this swings back and forth when the developers change it (and try to perfect it). It also swings back and forth when people discover new things they can do in the game.
Whether something is 'overpowered' is very subjective. Some people think fades are overpowered right now, but I just jump on boxes and shotgun them like they're nothing. It's usually a matter of perspective, because most players don't have the experience or talent to say how something should be with any kind of clout (and the developers aren't always clear about their intentions).
Go back to your RPG Axe wielding Dorf :P
<a href="http://youtu.be/j7M4cS43QEY" target="_blank">http://youtu.be/j7M4cS43QEY</a>
A basic run down is that Scotty and Klevertommy ( both pro players ) and a few others evolve to Lerk and then proceed to area denial and pick off the marine team. The marines fight back with the LMG and pistols but only manage to wound the Lerks who skillfully hang back out of shotgun range. My point is the LMG and pistols just don't cut it and whats the point of Shotguns and Flamer throwers when the Lerk can easily attack you from long range.
If the marine team wanted to invest in a AdvArmory upgrade to a HMG type weapon they could have had a decent chance to fight back. All they would havce needed was a squad with 1 player with a HMG and 2 or 3 LMG marines to cover him.
It seems thgat the argument against the HMG is that players will want to rambo with it. But this vid shows that if hypothetically a player with a HMG was to shuffle (weight penalty) into reactor or crevice by himself he could easily be outflanked by the aliens and lose asnd expensive weapon. But as I explained if the HMG player was part of squad it would be much more effective in a front-on push and if anything else the other squad memebers could pick up the HMG if the player goes down.
I mean the Exo+Minigun sounds great but it's a bit pointless if you can't even survive long enough to buy a protolab?
The layout of that room makes any form of attack an advantage to the Kharaa team.
Skulks can move up that reactor and into that vent very very easily.
I often see teams of 3 or 4 marines get smoked by lerk/skulk 2 man teams in this room.
You can keep the aliens at bay with only a SG team every time. The Key is moving as a team.
The nade launcher and moving together as a team and keeping the pressure on the aliens will keep them out of this room and force them to stand off in Glass hallway.
Also mines placed on the walls and in vents is far better a tactic than needed some kind of HMG.
As soon as the marines tech up, lerks get smoked everytime has been my experience.
I don't think a HMG would have made any difference in this example you posted. The marines were on the losing side of that match, the Kharaa had that map locked down
Oh and in case you missed it that was Tommy and Scotty, they might be the best 2 man team in NS2 IMO, so I would expect them to keep the marines at bay.
Go watch some NS2HD videos with team Mr. and you'll see what I mean.
The balance in a game like this swings back and forth when the developers change it (and try to perfect it). It also swings back and forth when people discover new things they can do in the game.
Whether something is 'overpowered' is very subjective. Some people think fades are overpowered right now, but I just jump on boxes and shotgun them like they're nothing. It's usually a matter of perspective, because most players don't have the experience or talent to say how something should be with any kind of clout (and the developers aren't always clear about their intentions).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
i just mean in the sense that aliens pretty much have everything in-game (at least the alien lifeforms, still waiting on Shift), and the marines have yet to get basically a new class, 2 new guns, the ability to dual wield them... all i can see the devs doing is increasing the health of every alien 10 fold...
This reminds me of the Akimbo Uzi's in Science & Industry
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->A railgun is an electrically powered artillery gun that accelerates a conductive projectile along electromagnetic rails<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
essentially, it just fires a slug really really fast.
is there any concept art yet of the exosuit or an ETA for when it will be added?
Rails, of course :P
--Cory
--Cory<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Pewpew?
Thud.
..it just felt.... <b>right</b>
<img src="http://www.bluesnews.com/screenshots/q2/quake2-02.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
knocking the fade out of blink temporarily??
seeing the fade even when he's in blink??
i'm just having a hard time coming up with a possible answer in my head that doesn't equate with the shotgun in use/timing?
yup.. i'm gonna have to get started now.. :)
<img src="http://i.imgur.com/nPDvj.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
It'd presumably also be pretty good against clustered buildings if it goes through things, as well as having a much higher initial impact/response time than the minigun, the minigun might do a lot of damage over time, but it requires spin up time to start firing, while you can unload dual railguns into a fade the instant you aim at it, which gets it into 'oh jesus crap ow that hurt' mode all the faster, and away from your teammates.
there are ways to balance things that don't include giving the enemy a bigger weapon ad nauseum, but that's probably why you're not a game developer.
how about this; the goo walls completely trap exosuits and can /only/ be removed with flamethrowers