Bile Bomb was originally a Fade ability in NS1, lol. This idea would be interesting but it seems like it would make a lot of areas impossible for marines to hold, i.e. all the big rooms in Mineshaft.
<!--quoteo(post=1908524:date=Feb 29 2012, 10:31 PM:name=Zek)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Zek @ Feb 29 2012, 10:31 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1908524"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Bile Bomb was originally a Fade ability in NS1, lol. This idea would be interesting but it seems like it would make a lot of areas impossible for marines to hold, i.e. all the big rooms in Mineshaft.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Did you mean lerk or Fade.
Because i don't remember fades having that ability.
<!--quoteo(post=1908509:date=Feb 29 2012, 08:03 PM:name=Xostean)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Xostean @ Feb 29 2012, 08:03 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1908509"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->" Design task Move bile bomb to Lerk (hive 2) has appeared with status Started "
<!--quoteo(post=1908530:date=Feb 29 2012, 10:43 PM:name=Kouji_San)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kouji_San @ Feb 29 2012, 10:43 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1908530"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->that was acid rocket<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> IIRC their ability order in 1.0 was Swipe, Acid Rocket, Blink and Bile Bomb, which at the time wasn't just for structures.
<!--quoteo(post=1908544:date=Mar 1 2012, 04:09 AM:name=Zek)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Zek @ Mar 1 2012, 04:09 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1908544"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->IIRC their ability order in 1.0 was Swipe, Acid Rocket, Blink and Bile Bomb, which at the time wasn't just for structures.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I do believe acid-rocket was a hive-2 ability (which together with hive-2 webs for the gorge and the additional chamber would completely wreck the marines).
twilitebluebug stalkerJoin Date: 2003-02-04Member: 13116Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
edited February 2012
<!--quoteo(post=1908550:date=Feb 29 2012, 09:13 PM:name=IeptBarakat)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (IeptBarakat @ Feb 29 2012, 09:13 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1908550"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Poor gorge, his usefulness just dropped by a lot.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Umbra belching would be really handy! Or perhaps a long ranged healing "bomb"?
<!--quoteo(post=1908554:date=Feb 29 2012, 08:20 PM:name=twiliteblue)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (twiliteblue @ Feb 29 2012, 08:20 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1908554"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Umbra belching would be really handy! Or perhaps a long ranged healing "bomb"?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
At least we'll have Goo Wall to play with, but I like the idea of an Umbra Spray or something similar~
I see where the gorge would get the bile bomb get from (from is stomache), but where should it come from for the lerk? From the skin-thick wings?
but meh I know its nanites and bacteria...
I am not sure if I like the change. I liked to be able to play the gorge as a semi offensive supporter at the front lines, mainly healing buddys, but also able to make a kill from time to time. The more defense it gets the more I am concerned that her will always sit behind the line, heal and be bored... :(
How is the Lerk is able to create a Bile Bomb when clearly its body mass is insufficient compared to a Gorge? The answer lies in the Spores, which change state from vapor to liquid and the Lerk's innate ability to regenerate its membrane-like wings works to create a Bile Bomb in mere seconds.
SewlekThe programmer previously known as SchimmelJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16247Members, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Gold, Subnautica Developer
<!--quoteo(post=1908589:date=Mar 1 2012, 01:49 AM:name=PsiWarp)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (PsiWarp @ Mar 1 2012, 01:49 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1908589"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->There's also the question of whether the Lerk would launch the Bile Bomb or drop it.
The Lerk is starting to look a lot like a biological quasi-Kamikaze fighter/cropduster/bomber plane with mounted machine guns!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
yes i think it will go more in that direction. Letting it simply drop and only give a small push of you own velocity instead of throwing.
I think UWE is making a good call by moving BB away from the Gorge; it was too strong when combined with his self-healing powers.
With regards to the Lerk bomb, though, might I suggest that instead of forming a single large cumbrous sphere with large blast radius, he instead forms a carpet of smaller bile-globs? It would be a much less ridiculous form of delivery, and it would also allow for advanced tactics like executing a turn mid-bomb and carefully lining up your flight path before firing.
Below is an example of the sort of visual image I'm suggesting: Century Bombers from RA3. Just imagine that it's a squad of Lerks carpet-bombing the base instead ;) <center><object width="450" height="356"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/Rdn4jQ7ez5I"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/Rdn4jQ7ez5I" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="450" height="356"></embed></object></center>
<!--quoteo(post=1908616:date=Mar 1 2012, 05:31 PM:name=Techercizer)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Techercizer @ Mar 1 2012, 05:31 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1908616"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->With regards to the Lerk bomb, though, might I suggest that instead of forming a single large cumbrous sphere with large blast radius, he instead forms a carpet of smaller bile-globs?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Oh wow, yeah that would be <i>extremely</i> awesome. Plus it would make a lot more sense visually, due to the lerk's smaller size.
<!--quoteo(post=1908548:date=Mar 1 2012, 05:13 AM:name=player)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (player @ Mar 1 2012, 05:13 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1908548"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I do believe acid-rocket was a hive-2 ability (which together with hive-2 webs for the gorge and the additional chamber would completely wreck the marines).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Not in 1.00. I distinctly remember the argument for moving acid rocket up a hive or removing it entirely due to how it affected the Fade role (instead of teleporting frontline warrior it was a hide-behind-walls-and-spam "warrior").
Lerk only ever had bilebomb in some pre-release versions though.
Hmmm, lerk with bile bomb sounds like it'd be rather effective, and I don't mind it being taken off the gorge given that gorges kinda already work as siege weapons what with them being excellent onos support.
Although if you make it dropped rather than thrown, I am just going to sit on top of structures and crap bile bombs on them.
<!--quoteo(post=1908587:date=Mar 1 2012, 07:47 AM:name=Kiai)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kiai @ Mar 1 2012, 07:47 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1908587"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It would be cool if the Lerk could pick up the acid ball from the whip and drop it like a bomb on marines/buildings.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ohhh, this sounds so awesome! Now THIS i would like to see. Even though the lerk bb sounds fun, i don't think it should be taken away from the gorge. As it is right now, the gorge needs to cautiously get closer in order to bb, while the lerk could just fly in at any time and bb anything he wanted. Plus, it's true that it leaves the gorge like the kid on the playground that no one wants to play with.
Hmm, I hope you realize that this will make it almost completely impossible for the marines to keep mapcontrol or even extractors? at least with a gorge you could defend against it with 1 or 2 marines. A lerk will just fly in, drop a few bilebombs even if there are 5 rines defending, fly away, heal and repeat. Even more than the fade it makes the game pretty much over the moment the aliens have a second hive...
While a lerk is hard to master, it is already very very powerful in the hands of people like swalk and treffnix. The good thing about the spikes was that a lerk has to be reasonably stationary to hit buildings, so a quick pistol burst could either kill or scare off a lerk. If the lerk instead becomes a fly-by shooter, rines will never be able to get map control, and public games will be even bigger turtles... and if there's one thing that will completely kill off the fun of this game it is constant rine turtling....
The game has never recovered from the mistale of removing the second command station requirement for the techtree... this was a simplistic solution towards the problem of marines not being able to gain mapcontrol, but was the start of a slow an inevitable fall towards a complete turtling mentality on almost every public server.
The fact is that at the moment most good players have simply stopped playing public games because of the incredible boredom that the turtling elicits.
<!--quoteo(post=1908596:date=Mar 1 2012, 07:15 AM:name=Schimmel)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Schimmel @ Mar 1 2012, 07:15 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1908596"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->yes i think it will go more in that direction. Letting it simply drop and only give a small push of you own velocity instead of throwing.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm afraid that will make bile bombimg even harder to balance. Small room: If the lerks flys in he is most likely dead as long as any defenders are in it. High room: Good luck stoping the lerk from destroying your base. Room filled with marines: Forget bile bombimg, yay stalemate.
Comments
Kiss Hive energy restraints goodbye!
Did you mean lerk or Fade.
Because i don't remember fades having that ability.
Plus....what are gorges for again? They've already had so much taken from them :(
lol what?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
looooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooool
wow and you thought the gorge bile bomb was OP?! LOL just auto drop a turrent with each lerk spawn
I'm sure with some number tweaking, it could be balanced.
IIRC their ability order in 1.0 was Swipe, Acid Rocket, Blink and Bile Bomb, which at the time wasn't just for structures.
I do believe acid-rocket was a hive-2 ability (which together with hive-2 webs for the gorge and the additional chamber would completely wreck the marines).
Umbra belching would be really handy! Or perhaps a long ranged healing "bomb"?
At least we'll have Goo Wall to play with, but I like the idea of an Umbra Spray or something similar~
these just make so much more sense in my mind when i envision them in practice..
The Lerk is starting to look a lot like a biological quasi-Kamikaze fighter/cropduster/bomber plane with mounted machine guns!
I see where the gorge would get the bile bomb get from (from is stomache), but where should it come from for the lerk? From the skin-thick wings?
but meh I know its nanites and bacteria...
I am not sure if I like the change. I liked to be able to play the gorge as a semi offensive supporter at the front lines, mainly healing buddys, but also able to make a kill from time to time. The more defense it gets the more I am concerned that her will always sit behind the line, heal and be bored... :(
How is the Lerk is able to create a Bile Bomb when clearly its body mass is insufficient compared to a Gorge? The answer lies in the Spores, which change state from vapor to liquid and the Lerk's innate ability to regenerate its membrane-like wings works to create a Bile Bomb in mere seconds.
Damn nature, you scary.
The Lerk is starting to look a lot like a biological quasi-Kamikaze fighter/cropduster/bomber plane with mounted machine guns!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
yes i think it will go more in that direction. Letting it simply drop and only give a small push of you own velocity instead of throwing.
With regards to the Lerk bomb, though, might I suggest that instead of forming a single large cumbrous sphere with large blast radius, he instead forms a carpet of smaller bile-globs? It would be a much less ridiculous form of delivery, and it would also allow for advanced tactics like executing a turn mid-bomb and carefully lining up your flight path before firing.
Below is an example of the sort of visual image I'm suggesting: Century Bombers from RA3. Just imagine that it's a squad of Lerks carpet-bombing the base instead ;)
<center><object width="450" height="356"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/Rdn4jQ7ez5I"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/Rdn4jQ7ez5I" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="450" height="356"></embed></object></center>
Not in 1.00. I distinctly remember the argument for moving acid rocket up a hive or removing it entirely due to how it affected the Fade role (instead of teleporting frontline warrior it was a hide-behind-walls-and-spam "warrior").
Lerk only ever had bilebomb in some pre-release versions though.
The lerk will finally have something awesome and be worth it's 30 res
Of course, we don't know if the rate of fire and area of effect will be the same.
Although if you make it dropped rather than thrown, I am just going to sit on top of structures and crap bile bombs on them.
Ohhh, this sounds so awesome! Now THIS i would like to see. Even though the lerk bb sounds fun, i don't think it should be taken away from the gorge. As it is right now, the gorge needs to cautiously get closer in order to bb, while the lerk could just fly in at any time and bb anything he wanted. Plus, it's true that it leaves the gorge like the kid on the playground that no one wants to play with.
While a lerk is hard to master, it is already very very powerful in the hands of people like swalk and treffnix. The good thing about the spikes was that a lerk has to be reasonably stationary to hit buildings, so a quick pistol burst could either kill or scare off a lerk. If the lerk instead becomes a fly-by shooter, rines will never be able to get map control, and public games will be even bigger turtles... and if there's one thing that will completely kill off the fun of this game it is constant rine turtling....
The game has never recovered from the mistale of removing the second command station requirement for the techtree... this was a simplistic solution towards the problem of marines not being able to gain mapcontrol, but was the start of a slow an inevitable fall towards a complete turtling mentality on almost every public server.
The fact is that at the moment most good players have simply stopped playing public games because of the incredible boredom that the turtling elicits.
I'm afraid that will make bile bombimg even harder to balance. Small room: If the lerks flys in he is most likely dead as long as any defenders are in it. High room: Good luck stoping the lerk from destroying your base. Room filled with marines: Forget bile bombimg, yay stalemate.