The new patch seemed to improve the responsiviness quite a bit for me. I think it's now on an acceptable level in general. Of course some extra still wouldn't hurt.
ShockehIf a packet drops on the web and nobody's near to see it...Join Date: 2002-11-19Member: 9336NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Constellation
They've got a long way to go yet, including needing to address the concede issue (add it, you get 'gg concede at 15' morons who throw every game they're not dominating, don't add it, you're effectively <i>forced</i> to play a game that is genuinely un-fun for an extra 15-30minutes.) but so far, it's already head and shoulders above the other contenders in the crowd - I've a lot of faith in Valve on this one, so I'm prepared to see where they go with it.
As an aside, Rubick might be the most fun hero in any DotA-like, ever.
Concede is a no-brainer. The disadvantages of having it are vastly outweighed by the disadvantages of not having it.
The entire moba genre suffers from the issue that games are often decided long before the victory conditions are achieved. You can argue that that's bad design, but more importantly it just isn't fun. Concede voting is an effective stopgap measure for that. If they can figure out a way to make comebacks more viable late into the game, they can leave out concede voting, but otherwise it's simply a required feature.
I definitely agree this game needs a concede vote function. I've just started playing and I can barely get a match completed without someone going AFK and having to wait a full 40 mins. Not to mention it seems people get more XP if they end a match with more kills, so they tend to grief you as long as possible and artificially prolong the match to satisfy their goals, even though it's basically torture for you.
But you can always leave or go AFK, right? Wrong. If you go AFK you will be cast into a deeper pit of hell. Here you not only don't get any XP, you also are deprioritised for matchmaking, meaning it takes longer to get a match.
Speaking of matchmaking, the matching times are very long. In LoL I matchmake in 30-180 seconds depending on the game mode. In Dota 2 it can last up to <i>eight minutes</i> and averages more than 4 minutes, plus there are plenty of hoops to jump through just to be able to start a match successfully after you've found some suitable opponents:
- If you find a game everyone has to confirm they still want to play (I can see why someone might think this would be helpful, but this is a stupid step. When matchmaking takes as long as it does, people are ALWAYS going to do something else while they wait. Always. This step is inviting false positives.)
- If everyone confirms they all connect in and load the map; if anyone can't load the map or connect in, the matchmaking process is reset (this is a sensible step)
But these two steps don't in any way stop someone from going AFK seconds into the match. My completion rate for matches with all members making it to the end game where someone kills the Ancient is something stupidly low like 15%.
There are just so many obstacles stopping me from just playing and learning the game, I'm wondering why I'm bothering.
I'm surprised. I might take flak for "blind devotion," but I honestly expected Valve to be better than this. In dota-like games you need to incentivize putting an end to the game when you're in a clearly dominant position. Dota-likes already have too much "dead time" or whatever you would call it - all the time that elapses between one team reaching a clearly dominant position where victory is basically assured and until the victory conditions have actually been achieved. There need to be incentives for ending the match when you can, not for prolonging it needlessly.
Surrender voting is important for the same reason. Chess, for instance, can have a lot of dead time, but usually doesn't. Both because uneven matches tend to speed up, and because tipping your king carries little stigma, especially when you've clearly lost. And in a dota-like, if one team is clearly winning and just farming the losers to be jackasses, the losers can get themselves out of that situation without penalty by surrendering.
Having to confirm once you're placed in a match is a good thing however, because you don't want people who are afk getting dropped into matches. It doesn't stop people from going afk once they're in the match, of course, but it does stop people who are already afk from getting dropped into matches. Smite does it right: You can enter the queue and then alt-tab out. The Smite icon in the notification area will tell you if you're put in a match with a little pop-up, and you have (iirc) 45 seconds to confirm, which is plenty of time. Also, anyone who is dropped from a match because not everyone confirmed or because not everyone could load the map should be dropped to the FRONT of the queue so they can get back in as fast as possible. Anyone who doesn't confirm, or who rejects the match they got matchmade into, should be dropped from the queue.
<!--quoteo(post=1953688:date=Jul 26 2012, 06:50 AM:name=Crispy)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Crispy @ Jul 26 2012, 06:50 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1953688"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I've had it with feeders. The beginner's matchmaking bracket is a horrible place. Back to LoL.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If you're an experienced player, what're you doing in the beginner's matchmaking bracket?
ShockehIf a packet drops on the web and nobody's near to see it...Join Date: 2002-11-19Member: 9336NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Constellation
<!--quoteo(post=1953691:date=Jul 25 2012, 09:02 PM:name=Scythe)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Scythe @ Jul 25 2012, 09:02 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1953691"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->If you're an experienced player, what're you doing in the beginner's matchmaking bracket?
--Scythe--<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I tried playing a few games with Crispy and a friend, and I absolutely felt sympathy. If I queue solo, I'll get put in the High or occasionally the Very High bracket, and the sheer crazy way the game plays where they were put was frankly terrifying. In effect, your only way out is to roll with a hero you know you can swing the game with alone (Invoker, Naix, Anti-Mage, Queen of Pain, etc.) and hope to drag yourself kicking and screaming out of a horrible cesspit.
I hope I can convince Crispy to give it another go, but I'm not surprised his impression has been so demoralising.
<!--quoteo(post=1953910:date=Jul 26 2012, 02:01 PM:name=Shockwave)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Shockwave @ Jul 26 2012, 02:01 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1953910"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I hope I can convince Crispy to give it another go, but I'm not surprised his impression has been so demoralising.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->The main issue I have is not being able to forfeit a game through a team consensus.
MOBA games are extremely in-depth which require you to take on a huge amount of information before you can start to feel like you're playing the game well. Currently Dota 2 doesn't let me learn the game at a reasonable pace. The amount of 'dead' game time in the lower matchmaking brackets is exceedingly frustrating, to the point where I am absolutely not having fun and I feel like I'm wasting my time.
If that ever changes, I'd be very interested in actually being able to learn the game unobstructed, so I can play it competitively and enjoy the deep, challenging experience that MOBAs have to offer.
ShockehIf a packet drops on the web and nobody's near to see it...Join Date: 2002-11-19Member: 9336NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Constellation
Crispy - My suggestion would be to repeatedly pick a straightforward Carry (Anti-Mage is obvious, Invoker if you learn him, Queen of Pain, maybe Templar Assassin now because she's very fun) that can effectively farm up and start rolling the game alone, and win enough that you're playing out of that horrible pit you seem to be in. That way you start playing with people that even losing isn't so obnoxious.
<!--quoteo(post=1958020:date=Aug 6 2012, 08:47 AM:name=Shockwave)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Shockwave @ Aug 6 2012, 08:47 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1958020"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Crispy - My suggestion would be to repeatedly pick a straightforward Carry (Anti-Mage is obvious, Invoker if you learn him, Queen of Pain, maybe Templar Assassin now because she's very fun) that can effectively farm up and start rolling the game alone, and win enough that you're playing out of that horrible pit you seem to be in. That way you start playing with people that even losing isn't so obnoxious.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->You're probably right. There is probably a way around this other than giving up, but what you offer is a compromise: choose a specific set of characters you may not be remotely interested in that you must master in order to leave matchmaking hell. It's like the FWP gaming equivalent of a mother who has to sell her body to feed her kids...
Horrible, insensitive analogies aside, I don't dislike losing. Most of my best gaming moments have been a narrow victory or defeat, when you know you're playing a very evenly balanced match that's back and forth and forcing you to constantly think on your toes. That to me is a truly rewarding and engaging multiplayer experience. It's why I loved TFC, CS, NS, TF2 (briefly, <i>ante hats</i>), Advance Wars, and it's why I picked up League of Legends. NS in particular excelled at giving you hard, close-fought battles (you had to play on the right servers, mind). My gripe is less about losing and more about that feeling of futility. Now, a Sirlin practitioner would call me out now for being a scrub or some such for not <i>playing to win</i>. If I'm good enough, I should just be able to carry my way into the upper brackets regardless of the matchup. The cream rises to the top. Maybe not with ease, but certainly with discipline (the mark of a true champion), this <i>is</i> achievable. But the point is: the older I get, the more precious my time. I don't want to waste time on a game that doesn't let me (and 4 other consenting ~adults) call it quits when the game is patently over.
---
To go back to one of my other comments, I notice that LoL has just introduced the same 'early warning' system for abandoning a matchmake (where someone who matches a query fails to respond to confirm they are still active before the map/lobby is loaded up). Now, before I said that in Dota 2 it's stupid; this was unfair. It's frustrating in Dota 2 because the wait times are so incredibly long, but the shorter wait times of LoL have shown me that while it's a little frustrating in the short term, it's not actually a bad mechanic to reset a 30-180 second timer so you can have 10 active players in a match that will last 45 minutes. I just thought I'd mention it because I often see feedback that's heavily influenced by a design misunderstanding or that's actually mainly fuelled by a particular circumstance undermining the design as opposed to a fundamental design failure, and I can see now that I've fallen foul of this same thing in this instance. I think it's just as important to clarify when a design can work as well as when it doesn't work. Mea culpa.
For the ignorant, how much time do you have to confirm that you're still active in Dota2 and in LoL? In Smite it's 45 seconds, which seems like a good value: Short enough to not be annoying to wait out if someone is afk, long enough to give anyone who isn't afk ample time to respond.
I don't think we're talking about the same thing. You mean how long it takes before an afk gets kicked out of a match in progress, right? That's not what I mean.
In Smite, once you've spent time waiting in queue and been matchmade into a group of ten, you have to confirm again that you are not afk, by clicking on a ready button. If someone clicks not ready, or clicks nothing at all before the timer (45 seconds) elapses, the match doesn't start, but the players who did click ready are kicked back to the queue (to the front of it I believe). Dota2 and LoL apparently have similar features now. My question is how long their timers are, since Crispy previously complained that the Dota2 timer was too long.
<!--quoteo(post=1957855:date=Aug 6 2012, 07:18 AM:name=Crispy)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Crispy @ Aug 6 2012, 07:18 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1957855"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The main issue I have is not being able to forfeit a game through a team consensus.
MOBA games are extremely in-depth which require you to take on a huge amount of information before you can start to feel like you're playing the game well. Currently Dota 2 doesn't let me learn the game at a reasonable pace. The amount of 'dead' game time in the lower matchmaking brackets is exceedingly frustrating, to the point where I am absolutely not having fun and I feel like I'm wasting my time.
If that ever changes, I'd be very interested in actually being able to learn the game unobstructed, so I can play it competitively and enjoy the deep, challenging experience that MOBAs have to offer.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Everyone wants a surrender feature. Valve would be fools not to implement it, and Valve are no fools.
If you want to learn the ropes of a hero, you can create a bot game and practice in private without embarrassing yourself. I do that with all new heroes. I still only play Invoker in practice games because he is the hardest hero by far.
Also, to the LoL players in this thread. We get it, you prefer LoL. This is a dota 2 themed thread. No need to keep reinforcing your points. If you want to talk about LoL you can make a LoL thread and we will leave it alone - we promise.
<!--quoteo(post=1958532:date=Aug 7 2012, 02:39 PM:name=lolfighter)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (lolfighter @ Aug 7 2012, 02:39 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1958532"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->My question is how long their timers are, since Crispy previously complained that the Dota2 timer was too long.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Its pretty damn short in LoL, about 10 seconds or so.
<!--quoteo(post=1958532:date=Aug 7 2012, 05:39 AM:name=lolfighter)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (lolfighter @ Aug 7 2012, 05:39 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1958532"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Dota2 and LoL apparently have similar features now. My question is how long their timers are, since Crispy previously complained that the Dota2 timer was too long.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1958839:date=Aug 8 2012, 02:22 AM:name=spellman23)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (spellman23 @ Aug 8 2012, 02:22 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1958839"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Oooh, that. It's around 10-15 seconds.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->I actually complained it takes too long to get a match. This can be due to a small player pool or overzealous matchmaking buckets.
ShockehIf a packet drops on the web and nobody's near to see it...Join Date: 2002-11-19Member: 9336NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Constellation
<!--quoteo(post=1958588:date=Aug 7 2012, 03:11 PM:name=plausiblesarge)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (plausiblesarge @ Aug 7 2012, 03:11 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1958588"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->If you want to learn the ropes of a hero, you can create a bot game and practice in private without embarrassing yourself. I do that with all new heroes. I still only play Invoker in practice games because he is the hardest hero by far.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Weirdly, because there's really only two viable builds for Invoker at the moment (Quas/Wex, or Quas/Exort) he's actually quite simple and forgiving in some ways (incredibly easy last hitting, built in survivability, good stat growth), he's just a matter of being able to Invoke the right spell quickly. I'd say jump on in with him, because in some ways some heroes that you might perceive as simpler due to their skill design actually require a much deeper appreciation of the game.
I have been playing Jakiro. I don't know if they're good, bad, good at solo, support, what I should buy, or anything. Guides seem to be conflicting, as does in-game advice. I generally buy arcane boots, mechanism then aghanim's scepter. At least it could appear to some people that I know what I'm doing.
<!--quoteo(post=1963609:date=Aug 15 2012, 08:28 PM:name=Hoodedsniper)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Hoodedsniper @ Aug 15 2012, 08:28 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1963609"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Anyone else pumped for The International 2?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Hell yes! Although I don't want the Chinese to dominate as they did in DotA, I'm bored of seeing Na'Vi win everything. Bit of a mouz fanboy but as they're backups and- AFAIK- all the CIS/Chinese teams got visas, I guess they won't play so I don't know who to root for.
<!--quoteo(post=1963594:date=Aug 15 2012, 11:53 AM:name=sherpa)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (sherpa @ Aug 15 2012, 11:53 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1963594"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Jakiro is a relatively low-tier hero, his biggest assets are
1. levelling up liquid fire and pushing towers (as hits on towers that proc liquid fire pretty much stop them firing)
and;
2. good starting str and str gain means he can get over 1k hp early on with few items (good for a support)
He's still poop though- there are much better pushers.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Personally I enjoy clutch freeze-in-a-line shots.
But yeah, mainly a support pusher but not terribly great at either. Arcane Boots -> Mek -> Euls or Guinsoo is the way to go.
<!--quoteo(post=1963612:date=Aug 15 2012, 03:31 PM:name=sherpa)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (sherpa @ Aug 15 2012, 03:31 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1963612"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Hell yes! Although I don't want the Chinese to dominate as they did in DotA, I'm bored of seeing Na'Vi win everything. Bit of a mouz fanboy but as they're backups and- AFAIK- all the CIS/Chinese teams got visas, I guess they won't play so I don't know who to root for.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I dont think the Chinese will dominate, Chinese dominated so much in Dota 1 because most of the biggest name tourneys were held in China and not a lot foreigners went and that hasnt been true with Dota 2, especially since the biggest tourney is by Valve and invites all the top teams.
I see the Chinese getting far but I bet mTw,EG, or Navi takes it over anyone.
<!--quoteo(post=1963775:date=Aug 15 2012, 10:40 PM:name=lolfighter)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (lolfighter @ Aug 15 2012, 10:40 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1963775"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Jesus F. Christ, they're holding tournaments in the game before it's even released?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yup, Valve already held The International 1, it was a $1,000,000 prize for the winner, and that was before hardly ANYONE had the game, actually, no one had the game, it was a tourney designed for the reveal of Dota 2 at gamescom last year.
Since then their has been a bunch of tournements, The Defense 1, ProDota, Summit, Defense 2(just finished) JoinDota open, JoinDota Masters, and a bunch more, and since a month or so ago you can actually buy ingame tickets to watch all these tournaments on DotaTV and the tourney creators get a cut of the ticket money which then leads to bigger tourneys with more prize money and production Value.
The best part is, you dont need a ticket, you can watch all the free streams, but the tickets do give you the replays and better quality depending on how good your PC is and it lasts forever.
Now the next tourney is the International 2 by Valve, its another $1,000,000 prize for the top team and since its Valve own tourney it is free on DotaTV in game.
Just out of interest, what do you think of Valve's decision to include all DotA 1 heroes in the game? I guess it's a safe way to go, but then again this would've been probably the best chance to rethink or clean the hero pool. 108 heroes is quite a crowd both in the sense accessibility and also in terms of having room for additions.
Comments
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4J-tGVMiJxM#t=272s" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4J-tGVMiJxM#t=272s</a>
As an aside, Rubick might be the most fun hero in any DotA-like, ever.
The entire moba genre suffers from the issue that games are often decided long before the victory conditions are achieved. You can argue that that's bad design, but more importantly it just isn't fun. Concede voting is an effective stopgap measure for that. If they can figure out a way to make comebacks more viable late into the game, they can leave out concede voting, but otherwise it's simply a required feature.
But you can always leave or go AFK, right? Wrong. If you go AFK you will be cast into a deeper pit of hell. Here you not only don't get any XP, you also are deprioritised for matchmaking, meaning it takes longer to get a match.
Speaking of matchmaking, the matching times are very long. In LoL I matchmake in 30-180 seconds depending on the game mode. In Dota 2 it can last up to <i>eight minutes</i> and averages more than 4 minutes, plus there are plenty of hoops to jump through just to be able to start a match successfully after you've found some suitable opponents:
- If you find a game everyone has to confirm they still want to play (I can see why someone might think this would be helpful, but this is a stupid step. When matchmaking takes as long as it does, people are ALWAYS going to do something else while they wait. Always. This step is inviting false positives.)
- If everyone confirms they all connect in and load the map; if anyone can't load the map or connect in, the matchmaking process is reset (this is a sensible step)
But these two steps don't in any way stop someone from going AFK seconds into the match. My completion rate for matches with all members making it to the end game where someone kills the Ancient is something stupidly low like 15%.
There are just so many obstacles stopping me from just playing and learning the game, I'm wondering why I'm bothering.
Surrender voting is important for the same reason. Chess, for instance, can have a lot of dead time, but usually doesn't. Both because uneven matches tend to speed up, and because tipping your king carries little stigma, especially when you've clearly lost. And in a dota-like, if one team is clearly winning and just farming the losers to be jackasses, the losers can get themselves out of that situation without penalty by surrendering.
Having to confirm once you're placed in a match is a good thing however, because you don't want people who are afk getting dropped into matches. It doesn't stop people from going afk once they're in the match, of course, but it does stop people who are already afk from getting dropped into matches. Smite does it right: You can enter the queue and then alt-tab out. The Smite icon in the notification area will tell you if you're put in a match with a little pop-up, and you have (iirc) 45 seconds to confirm, which is plenty of time.
Also, anyone who is dropped from a match because not everyone confirmed or because not everyone could load the map should be dropped to the FRONT of the queue so they can get back in as fast as possible. Anyone who doesn't confirm, or who rejects the match they got matchmade into, should be dropped from the queue.
If you're an experienced player, what're you doing in the beginner's matchmaking bracket?
--Scythe--
--Scythe--<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I tried playing a few games with Crispy and a friend, and I absolutely felt sympathy. If I queue solo, I'll get put in the High or occasionally the Very High bracket, and the sheer crazy way the game plays where they were put was frankly terrifying. In effect, your only way out is to roll with a hero you know you can swing the game with alone (Invoker, Naix, Anti-Mage, Queen of Pain, etc.) and hope to drag yourself kicking and screaming out of a horrible cesspit.
I hope I can convince Crispy to give it another go, but I'm not surprised his impression has been so demoralising.
Wise choice
MOBA games are extremely in-depth which require you to take on a huge amount of information before you can start to feel like you're playing the game well. Currently Dota 2 doesn't let me learn the game at a reasonable pace. The amount of 'dead' game time in the lower matchmaking brackets is exceedingly frustrating, to the point where I am absolutely not having fun and I feel like I'm wasting my time.
If that ever changes, I'd be very interested in actually being able to learn the game unobstructed, so I can play it competitively and enjoy the deep, challenging experience that MOBAs have to offer.
Horrible, insensitive analogies aside, I don't dislike losing. Most of my best gaming moments have been a narrow victory or defeat, when you know you're playing a very evenly balanced match that's back and forth and forcing you to constantly think on your toes. That to me is a truly rewarding and engaging multiplayer experience. It's why I loved TFC, CS, NS, TF2 (briefly, <i>ante hats</i>), Advance Wars, and it's why I picked up League of Legends. NS in particular excelled at giving you hard, close-fought battles (you had to play on the right servers, mind). My gripe is less about losing and more about that feeling of futility. Now, a Sirlin practitioner would call me out now for being a scrub or some such for not <i>playing to win</i>. If I'm good enough, I should just be able to carry my way into the upper brackets regardless of the matchup. The cream rises to the top. Maybe not with ease, but certainly with discipline (the mark of a true champion), this <i>is</i> achievable. But the point is: the older I get, the more precious my time. I don't want to waste time on a game that doesn't let me (and 4 other consenting ~adults) call it quits when the game is patently over.
---
To go back to one of my other comments, I notice that LoL has just introduced the same 'early warning' system for abandoning a matchmake (where someone who matches a query fails to respond to confirm they are still active before the map/lobby is loaded up). Now, before I said that in Dota 2 it's stupid; this was unfair. It's frustrating in Dota 2 because the wait times are so incredibly long, but the shorter wait times of LoL have shown me that while it's a little frustrating in the short term, it's not actually a bad mechanic to reset a 30-180 second timer so you can have 10 active players in a match that will last 45 minutes. I just thought I'd mention it because I often see feedback that's heavily influenced by a design misunderstanding or that's actually mainly fuelled by a particular circumstance undermining the design as opposed to a fundamental design failure, and I can see now that I've fallen foul of this same thing in this instance. I think it's just as important to clarify when a design can work as well as when it doesn't work. Mea culpa.
In Smite, once you've spent time waiting in queue and been matchmade into a group of ten, you have to confirm again that you are not afk, by clicking on a ready button. If someone clicks not ready, or clicks nothing at all before the timer (45 seconds) elapses, the match doesn't start, but the players who did click ready are kicked back to the queue (to the front of it I believe).
Dota2 and LoL apparently have similar features now. My question is how long their timers are, since Crispy previously complained that the Dota2 timer was too long.
<a href="http://steamcommunity.com/id/PlausibleSarge/" target="_blank">http://steamcommunity.com/id/PlausibleSarge/</a>
<!--quoteo(post=1957855:date=Aug 6 2012, 07:18 AM:name=Crispy)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Crispy @ Aug 6 2012, 07:18 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1957855"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The main issue I have is not being able to forfeit a game through a team consensus.
MOBA games are extremely in-depth which require you to take on a huge amount of information before you can start to feel like you're playing the game well. Currently Dota 2 doesn't let me learn the game at a reasonable pace. The amount of 'dead' game time in the lower matchmaking brackets is exceedingly frustrating, to the point where I am absolutely not having fun and I feel like I'm wasting my time.
If that ever changes, I'd be very interested in actually being able to learn the game unobstructed, so I can play it competitively and enjoy the deep, challenging experience that MOBAs have to offer.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Everyone wants a surrender feature. Valve would be fools not to implement it, and Valve are no fools.
If you want to learn the ropes of a hero, you can create a bot game and practice in private without embarrassing yourself. I do that with all new heroes. I still only play Invoker in practice games because he is the hardest hero by far.
Also, to the LoL players in this thread. We get it, you prefer LoL. This is a dota 2 themed thread. No need to keep reinforcing your points. If you want to talk about LoL you can make a LoL thread and we will leave it alone - we promise.
Its pretty damn short in LoL, about 10 seconds or so.
Oooh, that. It's around 10-15 seconds.
Weirdly, because there's really only two viable builds for Invoker at the moment (Quas/Wex, or Quas/Exort) he's actually quite simple and forgiving in some ways (incredibly easy last hitting, built in survivability, good stat growth), he's just a matter of being able to Invoke the right spell quickly. I'd say jump on in with him, because in some ways some heroes that you might perceive as simpler due to their skill design actually require a much deeper appreciation of the game.
--Scythe--
1. levelling up liquid fire and pushing towers (as hits on towers that proc liquid fire pretty much stop them firing)
and;
2. good starting str and str gain means he can get over 1k hp early on with few items (good for a support)
He's still poop though- there are much better pushers.
Hell yes! Although I don't want the Chinese to dominate as they did in DotA, I'm bored of seeing Na'Vi win everything. Bit of a mouz fanboy but as they're backups and- AFAIK- all the CIS/Chinese teams got visas, I guess they won't play so I don't know who to root for.
1. levelling up liquid fire and pushing towers (as hits on towers that proc liquid fire pretty much stop them firing)
and;
2. good starting str and str gain means he can get over 1k hp early on with few items (good for a support)
He's still poop though- there are much better pushers.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Personally I enjoy clutch freeze-in-a-line shots.
But yeah, mainly a support pusher but not terribly great at either. Arcane Boots -> Mek -> Euls or Guinsoo is the way to go.
I dont think the Chinese will dominate, Chinese dominated so much in Dota 1 because most of the biggest name tourneys were held in China and not a lot foreigners went and that hasnt been true with Dota 2, especially since the biggest tourney is by Valve and invites all the top teams.
I see the Chinese getting far but I bet mTw,EG, or Navi takes it over anyone.
Yup, Valve already held The International 1, it was a $1,000,000 prize for the winner, and that was before hardly ANYONE had the game, actually, no one had the game, it was a tourney designed for the reveal of Dota 2 at gamescom last year.
Since then their has been a bunch of tournements, The Defense 1, ProDota, Summit, Defense 2(just finished) JoinDota open, JoinDota Masters, and a bunch more, and since a month or so ago you can actually buy ingame tickets to watch all these tournaments on DotaTV and the tourney creators get a cut of the ticket money which then leads to bigger tourneys with more prize money and production Value.
The best part is, you dont need a ticket, you can watch all the free streams, but the tickets do give you the replays and better quality depending on how good your PC is and it lasts forever.
Now the next tourney is the International 2 by Valve, its another $1,000,000 prize for the top team and since its Valve own tourney it is free on DotaTV in game.