Help me with map layout
Hello fellow mappers. I am turning to you with a very delicated request, I want your comments about my layout ideas.
Basically I am going with standard "Spread offense" layout but little bit modified
First is the "Spread offense" which is meant (probably) with static spawns at A and I. Gameplay seems straightforward - both teams fortify themselves in their expansions (BC,GH) and battle over the central tech point which is crucial for Aliens (tier 3). Aliens basicaly get tier 2 for free but marines can decide to push on the left side throught D to claim that tech point. Aliens also can decide play vabank and put their 2nd hive at central tech point and hold it by all means. Thats just few scenarios coming in my mind right now.
In current gameplay model there is no significant benefit for marines when they get hold extra techpoint and thus making techpoint C on marines side redudant. It only can serve as backup base if Khaara gets first comand chair down.
<div align='center'><img src="http://dl.dropbox.com/u/62994473/ns2_hulk_layout_v1.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /></div>
<div align='center'>And this is my version.</div>
<div align='center'><img src="http://dl.dropbox.com/u/62994473/ns2_hulk_layout_v2.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /></div>
I was thinking about the random spawns - both teams will have two places to spawn on, thus creating 4 slightly different scenarios. 2 symetric (GC, IA) and two asymetric (GA, IC). I've based the gameplay idea again around the central tech point. In all variants it will be always shortest route two blue lines to central tech, and three lines to the spawn (except IA, which should be considerent as "long" gamescenario) thus creating some sort of balanced starts (hope so).
I will look at the spawn setups from marines point of wiev, because basically game is about area denial and techpoint placement doesn't play a major role for marines.
I,A - long game, both teams have it long way to each others -> no quick push against enemy
Aliens are getting tier 2 for free unless marines decide to push fast throught B,D,G. If not battle will then move on central techpoint.
If marines decide to go C,F,H they can get a very solid foothold at H against 3 techpoints but probably leaving their base vulnerable from B
this is quite balanced setup
I,C - marines forward
marines go throught F and should decide to secure central E or get foothold at H again. This scenario is not very favorable for aliens, because holding H is too much advantage for marines
G,C - short symetric
again, marines can take advantage of point H for übercontrol, or go for D but control only 2 techpoints
G,A - aliens foward
in this setup aliens can secure points D, H easly and create good position for taking E
Is in the end only it looks that only one setup is ballanced, 2 are marines friendly and only 1 good for aliens.
And there are more hindrances. The importance of central tech point will be a game killer. If marines will get hold of central early, hold it and tech up, there will be no chance for aliens to break throught only with tier 2. If they will try to outflank marines to C (or A depending on spawn setup) they will have no chance to setup there a hive because marines will have fresh forces very near at their primary base. Maybe making central tech very alien-friendly will help it.
Making marines spawn static will be obviously simplest solution, but maybe I am overlooking something. I want to try to make some solution with random spawns before going back to static ones. Do you have any suggestions?
PS: If any of you are using Corel Draw, you can use my sourcefile for creating new overlays:
<a href="http://dl.dropbox.com/u/62994473/ns_hulk_layout.cdr" target="_blank">Source file (Corel x5)</a>
Basically I am going with standard "Spread offense" layout but little bit modified
First is the "Spread offense" which is meant (probably) with static spawns at A and I. Gameplay seems straightforward - both teams fortify themselves in their expansions (BC,GH) and battle over the central tech point which is crucial for Aliens (tier 3). Aliens basicaly get tier 2 for free but marines can decide to push on the left side throught D to claim that tech point. Aliens also can decide play vabank and put their 2nd hive at central tech point and hold it by all means. Thats just few scenarios coming in my mind right now.
In current gameplay model there is no significant benefit for marines when they get hold extra techpoint and thus making techpoint C on marines side redudant. It only can serve as backup base if Khaara gets first comand chair down.
<div align='center'><img src="http://dl.dropbox.com/u/62994473/ns2_hulk_layout_v1.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /></div>
<div align='center'>And this is my version.</div>
<div align='center'><img src="http://dl.dropbox.com/u/62994473/ns2_hulk_layout_v2.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /></div>
I was thinking about the random spawns - both teams will have two places to spawn on, thus creating 4 slightly different scenarios. 2 symetric (GC, IA) and two asymetric (GA, IC). I've based the gameplay idea again around the central tech point. In all variants it will be always shortest route two blue lines to central tech, and three lines to the spawn (except IA, which should be considerent as "long" gamescenario) thus creating some sort of balanced starts (hope so).
I will look at the spawn setups from marines point of wiev, because basically game is about area denial and techpoint placement doesn't play a major role for marines.
I,A - long game, both teams have it long way to each others -> no quick push against enemy
Aliens are getting tier 2 for free unless marines decide to push fast throught B,D,G. If not battle will then move on central techpoint.
If marines decide to go C,F,H they can get a very solid foothold at H against 3 techpoints but probably leaving their base vulnerable from B
this is quite balanced setup
I,C - marines forward
marines go throught F and should decide to secure central E or get foothold at H again. This scenario is not very favorable for aliens, because holding H is too much advantage for marines
G,C - short symetric
again, marines can take advantage of point H for übercontrol, or go for D but control only 2 techpoints
G,A - aliens foward
in this setup aliens can secure points D, H easly and create good position for taking E
Is in the end only it looks that only one setup is ballanced, 2 are marines friendly and only 1 good for aliens.
And there are more hindrances. The importance of central tech point will be a game killer. If marines will get hold of central early, hold it and tech up, there will be no chance for aliens to break throught only with tier 2. If they will try to outflank marines to C (or A depending on spawn setup) they will have no chance to setup there a hive because marines will have fresh forces very near at their primary base. Maybe making central tech very alien-friendly will help it.
Making marines spawn static will be obviously simplest solution, but maybe I am overlooking something. I want to try to make some solution with random spawns before going back to static ones. Do you have any suggestions?
PS: If any of you are using Corel Draw, you can use my sourcefile for creating new overlays:
<a href="http://dl.dropbox.com/u/62994473/ns_hulk_layout.cdr" target="_blank">Source file (Corel x5)</a>
Comments
Get on with a basic layout, and then start testing it as early as possible. You can layout just a floor route to test basic walk times etc.
The layout seems okay...only way to actually know if it works or not is to test it.
I also don't understand you thinking that if both teams start close to mid (G + C) that somehow it will favour marines. Aliens can move faster around the map since they can take direct routes and have faster movement speed and use of vents. I think this map would heavily favour aliens with every variant.
I think it's better to try and design a map around the fact that whoever gets T2 will probably win the game. If it turns out that T3 becomes really important your map will still work well and the initial gameplay will be more important to deciding the outcome of the match. Giving a free expansion just skips all that initial period where you are fighting to secure it. IMO the most fun in ns2 comes from fighting with t1 tech and you'd basically be reducing that as much as possible.
But I cannot decide between theese two
<div align='center'><img src="http://dl.dropbox.com/u/62994473/ns2_hulk_layout_v3.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /> <img src="http://dl.dropbox.com/u/62994473/ns2_hulk_layout_v4.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /></div>
From my point of view, variant 2.1 provides more fair-play and variant 2.0 more gameplay variety.
I know, that I should do a playtest and then decide. But I don't have time to build a graybox now, so I am focusing on preproduction.
Any opinions ?
No. Don't listen to this. Design the map around the mapping guidelines. There is always going to be a second tech point closer to the aliens starting tech point than one that is closer to the marines starting tech point. Aliens will always go for that one and Marines will have trouble stopping them. That's how the game is. You don't make a map around the fact that right now balance isn't perfect and aliens are super strong with a second hive.
This game is not just about prevent T2 tech, it's more about strategy and teamwork employed to take away T2 tech once it's there.
Design your map around the guidelines. Ignore balance issues right now. Take a look at your layout, then switch alien and marine starts, if it's still about the same distance between the first rt and tp for both teams after the switch, then consider your map balanced.
Spread Offense should be perfectly fine even with the current state of the game.