<!--quoteo(post=1906983:date=Feb 25 2012, 10:59 PM:name=Dank McShwagger)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dank McShwagger @ Feb 25 2012, 10:59 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1906983"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It encourages squad movement as marines and promotes comradery when a marine is saved from the belly of an onos by his team mates.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Not really. Someone who rambos in the first place isn't going to stop and think "if I had teammates with me I would have survived", they'll think "dude this game is bull######, that thing just stunned me, got close, and then I had to watch an animated gif for ages, unbalanced and ######". And the only time it'll cause camaraderie is if you're already with friends or people good enough at the game to communicate with their team, in which case you have no need for further encouragement.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->With gore, you have to press the attack to get a kill, it doesn't take the marine out of the fight instantly, only as long as the onos keeps attacking him, which gives other marines more time to kill the onos, and also introduces the possibility that the onos might switch targets to a more convenient one, and you can always get knocked somewhere hard to reach.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> this.
with devour, an onos could just charge in, eat one, retreat (nobody dares to follow, it did not get much damage yet) and then digest while drinking a cup of regeneration tea.
granted, the knock-down-time seems a bit long and often disorientates me when i tried turning around as a marine while standing up. some more polish might be needed, but i like the concept overall.
<!--quoteo(post=1907103:date=Feb 26 2012, 09:03 PM:name=Laosh'Ra)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Laosh'Ra @ Feb 26 2012, 09:03 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1907103"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->granted, the knock-down-time seems a bit long and often disorientates me when i tried turning around as a marine while standing up. some more polish might be needed, but i like the concept overall.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Itd be neat if the marines gun starting firing in all directions in panic as he flew backwards.
swalkSay hello to my little friend.Join Date: 2011-01-20Member: 78384Members, Squad Five Blue
edited February 2012
<!--quoteo(post=1906953:date=Feb 25 2012, 08:43 PM:name=Yuuki)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Yuuki @ Feb 25 2012, 08:43 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1906953"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The problem is not that devour is unfun, but that a significant portion of the community argue that knock-down is even worse.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I don't think the knockdown is that much of a problem. And I agree it's a better mechanic than devour, as it forces the the onos to stay a bit longer to get a kill. I think the real problem is that the onos can outrun jetpacks easily in corridors. Jetpacks are too slow. <!--quoteo(post=1907113:date=Feb 26 2012, 11:06 AM:name=assbda)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (assbda @ Feb 26 2012, 11:06 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1907113"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Itd be neat if the marines gun starting firing in all directions in panic as he flew backwards.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> You're on to something here. Tenfold the bullet spread when getting knocked over, and you can still shoot in mid-air. Only shooting pause is the second you hit the ground and get up.
<!--quoteo(post=1906412:date=Feb 23 2012, 11:17 PM:name=Starkwind)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Starkwind @ Feb 23 2012, 11:17 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1906412"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Adding Devour back would be a fantastic addition to NS2... Onos just doesnt feel the same without it<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Totally Agree, Dvour was just fun, everyone loved it!
Someone already said how it really requires the Aliens to dominate to be able to get onos, while marines can just get full upgrades while only dominating their own base.
Maybe add a +10 ress requirement to gain devour? or a 4th hive?
+1 devour as 4th Hive ability. It might not be super fun to play against, but the quicker all the Marines hop into Onos stomachs, the quicker they get to start a new round.
And don't try this cheap "everyone hates devour"-tactic. It's simply not true! It's controversial, yes. But I think it is able to be balanced AND a very unique NS mechanic. So lets be constructive. What is the problem with devour? <ul><li>one hit kill, let the player feel powerless</li><li>boring for the player being devoured because of longer respawn time</li></ul> At the first point, this may be true. BUT there is a shotgun. And it's wrong too, that this thing can one-hit-kill. At least an ONOS costs 70 res. What does the shotgun cost? So don't argue with this. An endgame monster like the onos can have the ability to one-hit-kill, when it is balanced. So what is to do to balance it? <ul><li>Make the onos really slow while devouring, to make devour situational. For example he could be unable to gain momentum while devouring. This would stop them from using it to pick one marine off a group and run away. Instead it would be used to quickly eat the last marine of a group, where the onos has killed everyone else. also it could have a slow healing effect encourage the onos to use it in this situation.</li><li>Set the devoured marine instantly on the respawn queue. Let him see the inside of the onos and grand the possibility to get freed by your team members. But if your normal respawn counter has ended, just let him respawn. This way you don't lose time and its not more boring than waiting in the respawn queue.</li></ul>
In my opinion, this simple tweaks could bring back devour and kill the problems it had caused in NS1.
swalkSay hello to my little friend.Join Date: 2011-01-20Member: 78384Members, Squad Five Blue
edited February 2012
<!--quoteo(post=1907541:date=Feb 27 2012, 07:05 PM:name=_Necro_)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (_Necro_ @ Feb 27 2012, 07:05 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1907541"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->+1 to devour.
And don't try this cheap "everyone hates devour"-tactic. It's simply not true! It's controversial, yes. But I think it is able to be balanced AND a very unique NS mechanic. So lets be constructive. What is the problem with devour? <ul><li>one hit kill, let the player feel powerless</li><li>boring for the player being devoured because of longer respawn time</li></ul> At the first point, this may be true. BUT there is a shotgun. And it's wrong too, that this thing can one-hit-kill. At least an ONOS costs 70 res. What does the shotgun cost? So don't argue with this. An endgame monster like the onos can have the ability to one-hit-kill, when it is balanced. So what is to do to balance it? <ul><li>Make the onos really slow while devouring, to make devour situational. For example he could be unable to gain momentum while devouring. This would stop them from using it to pick one marine off a group and run away. Instead it would be used to quickly eat the last marine of a group, where the onos has killed everyone else. also it could have a slow healing effect encourage the onos to use it in this situation.</li><li>Set the devoured marine instantly on the respawn queue. Let him see the inside of the onos and grand the possibility to get freed by your team members. But if your normal respawn counter has ended, just let him respawn. This way you don't lose time and its not more boring than waiting in the respawn queue.</li></ul>
In my opinion, this simple tweaks could bring back devour and kill the problems it had caused in NS1.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Great ideas. But the onos can't both have the knockdown and devour, that would be too powerful. I kind of like the knockdown idea more than the devour idea, since it doesn't instantly "kill" you. As I suggested before, I would like the knockdown to change so you're able to shoot in mid-air, that way you won't feel as powerless. And shooting marines would be easier for the onos to find.
Soul_RiderMod BeanJoin Date: 2004-06-19Member: 29388Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
I seem to be confused by the comments here :P
People don't want the Onos to be deadly and devestating? They don't want a unit that has cost a minimum of 225 res (3 hives and lifeform) to be created, to be a seriously deadly character?
When ExoSuits come in with dual miniguns, I would expect the guns to tear through an Onos pretty quickly, but an Onos needs to be able to take out an Exo quickly too, otherwise Exosuit and DMG's become a hard counter to Onos.
Remembering the Ranged vs Melee rules, Marine does damage at range, but alien damage is much higher because in melee they are deadly.
So the question is how can the Onos take out an Exosuit marine in just a few seconds, once he gets to him? This is the rule of balance.
Gore can't have higher damage on Exo's that is unintuitive. Yet the Onos has to be able to kill an Exo in melee in a few seconds.
For example: <!--c1--><div class='codetop'>CODE</div><div class='codemain'><!--ec1-->Skulk vs Marine0 - 0.9secs to kill Skulk vs Marine3 - 1.35secs to kill Fade vs Marine0 - 0.65secs Fade vs Marine3 - 1.3secs Onos vs Marine0 - 0.5 secs (but because of knockback distance actually takes at least 5 secs!) Onos vs Marine3 - 1 sec (again because of knockback takes about 10 secs)<!--c2--></div><!--ec2-->
Onos is already the super Nerf because of knockback, I hate knockback as both marine and alien. Why does it take the most deadly creature in the game so long to kill something!
Back on topic, judging by this list, an Onos should be able to kill an Exo in approx 1.5 secs in melee. Again he will be penalised with knockback, so probably more around 15 secs.
I guarantee if knockback is implemented for Exo's no-one will bother playing as alien again :)
Either devour or no knockback for Exo, I say remove knockback all together because it makes the Onos job more difficult than it should be. In my opinion, no matter how cheap or annoying devour is, it doesn't break the game as severely as knockback does. If devour was removed because it was annoying, then get rid of knockback and stun too, they are far worse.
this is not a shooter game, strategy is what makes NS2 unique. After heavy armor is presented in the game, devour should be added as it is a remarkable counter. Knowing that an Onos can devour you, heavy armored marines cant push. It is an extremely important strategy component. Without devour Onos is a pretty easy target for Heavy Armored marines, so as other alien lifeforms.
Yeah when heavies are in the onos is just going to be a easy target without his devour, as i said earlier- Thats what made him so devastating to a marine team.
I hope Bone Shield is still planned to be implemented, so Onos can stand its ground against a Dual Minigun Exosuit. Also, perhaps Smash can rattle the Exosuit like how Gore knocks back/down regular Marines, and the trade-off would be that Smash does no damage or knockback on regular Marines.
Soul_RiderMod BeanJoin Date: 2004-06-19Member: 29388Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
<!--quoteo(post=1907750:date=Feb 28 2012, 06:58 AM:name=PsiWarp)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (PsiWarp @ Feb 28 2012, 06:58 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1907750"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Also, perhaps Smash can rattle the Exosuit like how Gore knocks back/down regular Marines, and the trade-off would be that Smash does no damage or knockback on regular Marines.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
But would this smash ability enable the onos to kill an Exo suit in 1.5secs? If it doesn't it is no good as the primary melee against Exo.
This is the key, Onos is already majorly nerfed because of the knockback, so arguably as it is so hard against normal marines, he should have an instakill vs the Exo to even it out.
Everyone forgets the melee from the aliens is deadly and has to be as they have no way to hurt enemies from range.
^- That depends on the Exo's durability; the experimental values for Exosuit are 100 HP 200 Armor, Smash does 300 damage with delay of 1.9 seconds, so if you add in the rattling effect, it'll almost be a guaranteed kill.
Devour was fun, required skill and countered Heavy Armor in a very unique way (it wasn't just about player X having more health and doing more damage than player Y, so player X won - player X freaking ate player Y!), so I'm disappointed that it's not included in NS2. Being devoured for a very long time isn't much fun, but on the other hand the Onos needs the benefits of devouring if it's going to be meaningful (slowing down Marine spawning and boosting health for the Onos).
I think devour could work if the Marine dies after reaching 50 % health (and being stuck in the belly for a minimum of five seconds) - and after that is no longer rescuable and is put in the spawn queue, but the <b>body </b>of the Marine continues to give the Onos health until it's sucked dry of health (0 %).
<!--quoteo(post=1907844:date=Feb 28 2012, 03:19 PM:name=Namm)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Namm @ Feb 28 2012, 03:19 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1907844"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I think devour could work if the Marine dies after reaching 50 % health or being stuck in the belly for a minimum of five seconds and after that the Marine dies and is no longer rescuable and is put in the spawn queue, but the <b>body </b>of the Marine continues to give the Onos health until it's sucked dry of health (0 %).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Why 5sec? Just take the normal spawntime of the marine. Or easier said: The Onos devour does NOT influence the respawn time of the devoured marine. Beside this, he can see the belly from inside and can be rescued <u>until he respawns</u>. Your idea of healing the onos for a fixed time no matter if the marine is respawned already or not, is good. But in this time he should also not be able to build up momentum. So he can't snap one marine of a group and run away with him. It should only be usefull for single marines or the last marine of a group, where the onos has killed the rest normally first.
<!--quoteo(post=1907541:date=Feb 27 2012, 02:05 PM:name=_Necro_)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (_Necro_ @ Feb 27 2012, 02:05 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1907541"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->+1 to devour.
And don't try this cheap "everyone hates devour"-tactic. It's simply not true! It's controversial, yes. But I think it is able to be balanced AND a very unique NS mechanic. So lets be constructive. What is the problem with devour? <ul><li>one hit kill, let the player feel powerless</li><li>boring for the player being devoured because of longer respawn time</li></ul> At the first point, this may be true. BUT there is a shotgun. And it's wrong too, that this thing can one-hit-kill. At least an ONOS costs 70 res. What does the shotgun cost? So don't argue with this. An endgame monster like the onos can have the ability to one-hit-kill, when it is balanced. So what is to do to balance it? <ul><li>Make the onos really slow while devouring, to make devour situational. For example he could be unable to gain momentum while devouring. This would stop them from using it to pick one marine off a group and run away. Instead it would be used to quickly eat the last marine of a group, where the onos has killed everyone else. also it could have a slow healing effect encourage the onos to use it in this situation.</li><li>Set the devoured marine instantly on the respawn queue. Let him see the inside of the onos and grand the possibility to get freed by your team members. But if your normal respawn counter has ended, just let him respawn. This way you don't lose time and its not more boring than waiting in the respawn queue.</li></ul>
In my opinion, this simple tweaks could bring back devour and kill the problems it had caused in NS1.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
agree 100%
Consider the marine dead as soon as the onos eats him. The marine is put in que for an IP. if by chance the onos dies while the marine is in que then he is spawned at the dead onos and the next marine in que gets spawned at the IP. The marine can still have communication ability and a nice view of the onos' belly but as far as the game is concerned, the marine is dead until saved, and thus put in que to spawn at base.
No added spawn time resulting in A.D.D rage
The complaint people have about it being a 1 shot kill. At this point in the game, it should be sloping in one teams favor already. We dont know much about marine endgame. Exo suit and the small details we have been given make it seem even more OP then the onos is. Both can be easily balanced.
As far as im concerned, devour is as much part of the NS universe as the Onos itself. I am disappointed in seeing it not included in NS2.
I've only played NS1 once, and it was because swiftly after joining, I was devoured. And then died, spawned, and devoured.
I'm not saying that some changes couldn't make it a fun mechanic. But is the single, and only reason that I was immediately done with the first game, and had never gotten into it in the first place.
I have faith in Unknown Worlds to do the Onos right, but I just figured that I would put my two cents in.
<!--quoteo(post=1908039:date=Feb 28 2012, 08:13 PM:name=Prosth)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Prosth @ Feb 28 2012, 08:13 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1908039"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I've only played NS1 once, and it was because swiftly after joining, I was devoured. And then died, spawned, and devoured.
I'm not saying that some changes couldn't make it a fun mechanic. But is the single, and only reason that I was immediately done with the first game, and had never gotten into it in the first place.
I have faith in Unknown Worlds to do the Onos right, but I just figured that I would put my two cents in.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> You had the misfortune of joing a game that was already lost. Generally I would expect a bit more.... Effort? On your part before abandoning a game. I had a similar experience playing BF3. My first times flying were miserable. But I stuck with it an learned how to play better. Now I am a decent pilot. Don't give up so easily.
<!--quoteo(post=1908039:date=Feb 28 2012, 09:13 PM:name=Prosth)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Prosth @ Feb 28 2012, 09:13 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1908039"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I've only played NS1 once, and it was because swiftly after joining, I was devoured. And then died, spawned, and devoured.
I'm not saying that some changes couldn't make it a fun mechanic. But is the single, and only reason that I was immediately done with the first game, and had never gotten into it in the first place.
I have faith in Unknown Worlds to do the Onos right, but I just figured that I would put my two cents in.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Your first experience with NS1 was an unfortunate one. If you had played a game from start to finish you would understand why devour is so fun and essential.
On a side note, I had read an idea not too long ago from one of the community members (sorry, I can't find it to quote) but it implied that onos' should only be allowed to devour a marine after they are gored and unable to move. This makes perfect sense to me as the marine is already at low health after being gored, and I'm sure but 2 gores should be enough to kill a marine (not sure how upgrades play into that). So instead of a simple 2 gore fatality, add a bit of flare and excitement with a gore then devour combo to kill a marine. Just imagine 2 onos' working together to punt one marine into the other onos' mouth.
Devour should slow down Marine spawning. That was one of its purposes in NS1. Devour wasn't just insta-kill, the player was put in a kind of timeout. You really didn't want to get devoured. Since it slowed down spawning it also made the Marine team weaker.
<!--quoteo(post=1908197:date=Feb 29 2012, 10:19 AM:name=Namm)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Namm @ Feb 29 2012, 10:19 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1908197"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Devour should slow down Marine spawning. That was one of its purposes in NS1. Devour wasn't just insta-kill, the player was put in a kind of timeout. You really didn't want to get devoured. Since it slowed down spawning it also made the Marine team weaker.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah, but this caused all the hate. You don't want to punish a player with longer respawn time. It's not fun. And since NS2 is a new game, we don't need to implement this punishment. We will find other ways to make devour useful AND fun for both sides.
We are in no need to slow down the marine spawning. There are other ways to balance the endgame and circumvent stalemates.
I would like to see the knockdown on gore removed and have it instead be left as a secondary attack on the alt-fire. I find it to be much more of hindrance than a help when playing as a Onos to have the marine fall down every time I attack and either have to wait for him to get back up or instead try to awkwardly crouch down and find his hit box in the middle of a battle.
Consider if Knockdown was its own no/low damage attack that affected a small area in front of Onos to incapacitate a few marines for a second or two. While gore doesn't do any knockdown, just hits marines w/o completely incapacitating the marine and removing his ability to fight back. For teamplay, knockdown still would be a great way to help skulks close the gap late game and get to the marines.
we can all agree that the onos was cool looking in ns and provided that "oh noes here it comes" type of adrenaline rush when you see an onos for the first time, but the onos was never fun to PLAY. your job as an onos is to tank all the marine bullets until they run out of ammo and are vulnerable. i'm yawning just thinking about it.
devour prevented a marine from even playing the game. how is that fun for anyone?
<!--quoteo(post=1907541:date=Feb 27 2012, 12:05 PM:name=_Necro_)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (_Necro_ @ Feb 27 2012, 12:05 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1907541"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->+1 to devour.
And don't try this cheap "everyone hates devour"-tactic. It's simply not true! It's controversial, yes. But I think it is able to be balanced AND a very unique NS mechanic. So lets be constructive. What is the problem with devour? <ul><li>one hit kill, let the player feel powerless</li><li>boring for the player being devoured because of longer respawn time</li></ul> At the first point, this may be true. BUT there is a shotgun. And it's wrong too, that this thing can one-hit-kill. At least an ONOS costs 70 res. What does the shotgun cost? So don't argue with this. An endgame monster like the onos can have the ability to one-hit-kill, when it is balanced. So what is to do to balance it? <ul><li>Make the onos really slow while devouring, to make devour situational. For example he could be unable to gain momentum while devouring. This would stop them from using it to pick one marine off a group and run away. Instead it would be used to quickly eat the last marine of a group, where the onos has killed everyone else. also it could have a slow healing effect encourage the onos to use it in this situation.</li><li>Set the devoured marine instantly on the respawn queue. Let him see the inside of the onos and grand the possibility to get freed by your team members. But if your normal respawn counter has ended, just let him respawn. This way you don't lose time and its not more boring than waiting in the respawn queue.</li></ul>
In my opinion, this simple tweaks could bring back devour and kill the problems it had caused in NS1.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Devour is needed once exosuits are included. Thats just a fact I think. Once marines get exosuits and rush, current alien teams cannot fight that.
However, to make digestion less boring I suggest allowing marines to knife the onos from the inside (perhaps steadily slower until the moment of death?). Not much damage, but at least the marine can feel he is contributing to his escape.
<!--quoteo(post=1906412:date=Feb 23 2012, 06:17 PM:name=Starkwind)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Starkwind @ Feb 23 2012, 06:17 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1906412"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Adding Devour back would be a fantastic addition to NS2... Onos just doesnt feel the same without it<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Much agreed. Devour would be nice to have back.
The Onos definitely needs work right now as it stands; it feels rather sluggish.
Comments
Not really. Someone who rambos in the first place isn't going to stop and think "if I had teammates with me I would have survived", they'll think "dude this game is bull######, that thing just stunned me, got close, and then I had to watch an animated gif for ages, unbalanced and ######".
And the only time it'll cause camaraderie is if you're already with friends or people good enough at the game to communicate with their team, in which case you have no need for further encouragement.
this.
with devour, an onos could just charge in, eat one, retreat (nobody dares to follow, it did not get much damage yet) and then digest while drinking a cup of regeneration tea.
granted, the knock-down-time seems a bit long and often disorientates me when i tried turning around as a marine while standing up. some more polish might be needed, but i like the concept overall.
Itd be neat if the marines gun starting firing in all directions in panic as he flew backwards.
I don't think the knockdown is that much of a problem.
And I agree it's a better mechanic than devour, as it forces the the onos to stay a bit longer to get a kill.
I think the real problem is that the onos can outrun jetpacks easily in corridors. Jetpacks are too slow.
<!--quoteo(post=1907113:date=Feb 26 2012, 11:06 AM:name=assbda)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (assbda @ Feb 26 2012, 11:06 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1907113"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Itd be neat if the marines gun starting firing in all directions in panic as he flew backwards.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You're on to something here.
Tenfold the bullet spread when getting knocked over, and you can still shoot in mid-air.
Only shooting pause is the second you hit the ground and get up.
Totally Agree, Dvour was just fun, everyone loved it!
Devour is just too awesome.
Someone already said how it really requires the Aliens to dominate to be able to get onos, while marines can just get full upgrades while only dominating their own base.
Maybe add a +10 ress requirement to gain devour? or a 4th hive?
And don't try this cheap "everyone hates devour"-tactic. It's simply not true! It's controversial, yes. But I think it is able to be balanced AND a very unique NS mechanic. So lets be constructive. What is the problem with devour?
<ul><li>one hit kill, let the player feel powerless</li><li>boring for the player being devoured because of longer respawn time</li></ul>
At the first point, this may be true. BUT there is a shotgun. And it's wrong too, that this thing can one-hit-kill. At least an ONOS costs 70 res. What does the shotgun cost? So don't argue with this. An endgame monster like the onos can have the ability to one-hit-kill, when it is balanced. So what is to do to balance it?
<ul><li>Make the onos really slow while devouring, to make devour situational. For example he could be unable to gain momentum while devouring. This would stop them from using it to pick one marine off a group and run away. Instead it would be used to quickly eat the last marine of a group, where the onos has killed everyone else. also it could have a slow healing effect encourage the onos to use it in this situation.</li><li>Set the devoured marine instantly on the respawn queue. Let him see the inside of the onos and grand the possibility to get freed by your team members. But if your normal respawn counter has ended, just let him respawn. This way you don't lose time and its not more boring than waiting in the respawn queue.</li></ul>
In my opinion, this simple tweaks could bring back devour and kill the problems it had caused in NS1.
And don't try this cheap "everyone hates devour"-tactic. It's simply not true! It's controversial, yes. But I think it is able to be balanced AND a very unique NS mechanic. So lets be constructive. What is the problem with devour?
<ul><li>one hit kill, let the player feel powerless</li><li>boring for the player being devoured because of longer respawn time</li></ul>
At the first point, this may be true. BUT there is a shotgun. And it's wrong too, that this thing can one-hit-kill. At least an ONOS costs 70 res. What does the shotgun cost? So don't argue with this. An endgame monster like the onos can have the ability to one-hit-kill, when it is balanced. So what is to do to balance it?
<ul><li>Make the onos really slow while devouring, to make devour situational. For example he could be unable to gain momentum while devouring. This would stop them from using it to pick one marine off a group and run away. Instead it would be used to quickly eat the last marine of a group, where the onos has killed everyone else. also it could have a slow healing effect encourage the onos to use it in this situation.</li><li>Set the devoured marine instantly on the respawn queue. Let him see the inside of the onos and grand the possibility to get freed by your team members. But if your normal respawn counter has ended, just let him respawn. This way you don't lose time and its not more boring than waiting in the respawn queue.</li></ul>
In my opinion, this simple tweaks could bring back devour and kill the problems it had caused in NS1.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Great ideas.
But the onos can't both have the knockdown and devour, that would be too powerful.
I kind of like the knockdown idea more than the devour idea, since it doesn't instantly "kill" you.
As I suggested before, I would like the knockdown to change so you're able to shoot in mid-air, that way you won't feel as powerless.
And shooting marines would be easier for the onos to find.
People don't want the Onos to be deadly and devestating? They don't want a unit that has cost a minimum of 225 res (3 hives and lifeform) to be created, to be a seriously deadly character?
When ExoSuits come in with dual miniguns, I would expect the guns to tear through an Onos pretty quickly, but an Onos needs to be able to take out an Exo quickly too, otherwise Exosuit and DMG's become a hard counter to Onos.
Remembering the Ranged vs Melee rules, Marine does damage at range, but alien damage is much higher because in melee they are deadly.
So the question is how can the Onos take out an Exosuit marine in just a few seconds, once he gets to him? This is the rule of balance.
Gore can't have higher damage on Exo's that is unintuitive. Yet the Onos has to be able to kill an Exo in melee in a few seconds.
For example:
<!--c1--><div class='codetop'>CODE</div><div class='codemain'><!--ec1-->Skulk vs Marine0 - 0.9secs to kill
Skulk vs Marine3 - 1.35secs to kill
Fade vs Marine0 - 0.65secs
Fade vs Marine3 - 1.3secs
Onos vs Marine0 - 0.5 secs (but because of knockback distance actually takes at least 5 secs!)
Onos vs Marine3 - 1 sec (again because of knockback takes about 10 secs)<!--c2--></div><!--ec2-->
Onos is already the super Nerf because of knockback, I hate knockback as both marine and alien. Why does it take the most deadly creature in the game so long to kill something!
Back on topic, judging by this list, an Onos should be able to kill an Exo in approx 1.5 secs in melee. Again he will be penalised with knockback, so probably more around 15 secs.
I guarantee if knockback is implemented for Exo's no-one will bother playing as alien again :)
Either devour or no knockback for Exo, I say remove knockback all together because it makes the Onos job more difficult than it should be. In my opinion, no matter how cheap or annoying devour is, it doesn't break the game as severely as knockback does. If devour was removed because it was annoying, then get rid of knockback and stun too, they are far worse.
But would this smash ability enable the onos to kill an Exo suit in 1.5secs? If it doesn't it is no good as the primary melee against Exo.
This is the key, Onos is already majorly nerfed because of the knockback, so arguably as it is so hard against normal marines, he should have an instakill vs the Exo to even it out.
Everyone forgets the melee from the aliens is deadly and has to be as they have no way to hurt enemies from range.
I think devour could work if the Marine dies after reaching 50 % health (and being stuck in the belly for a minimum of five seconds) - and after that is no longer rescuable and is put in the spawn queue, but the <b>body </b>of the Marine continues to give the Onos health until it's sucked dry of health (0 %).
Why 5sec? Just take the normal spawntime of the marine. Or easier said: The Onos devour does NOT influence the respawn time of the devoured marine. Beside this, he can see the belly from inside and can be rescued <u>until he respawns</u>. Your idea of healing the onos for a fixed time no matter if the marine is respawned already or not, is good. But in this time he should also not be able to build up momentum. So he can't snap one marine of a group and run away with him. It should only be usefull for single marines or the last marine of a group, where the onos has killed the rest normally first.
And don't try this cheap "everyone hates devour"-tactic. It's simply not true! It's controversial, yes. But I think it is able to be balanced AND a very unique NS mechanic. So lets be constructive. What is the problem with devour?
<ul><li>one hit kill, let the player feel powerless</li><li>boring for the player being devoured because of longer respawn time</li></ul>
At the first point, this may be true. BUT there is a shotgun. And it's wrong too, that this thing can one-hit-kill. At least an ONOS costs 70 res. What does the shotgun cost? So don't argue with this. An endgame monster like the onos can have the ability to one-hit-kill, when it is balanced. So what is to do to balance it?
<ul><li>Make the onos really slow while devouring, to make devour situational. For example he could be unable to gain momentum while devouring. This would stop them from using it to pick one marine off a group and run away. Instead it would be used to quickly eat the last marine of a group, where the onos has killed everyone else. also it could have a slow healing effect encourage the onos to use it in this situation.</li><li>Set the devoured marine instantly on the respawn queue. Let him see the inside of the onos and grand the possibility to get freed by your team members. But if your normal respawn counter has ended, just let him respawn. This way you don't lose time and its not more boring than waiting in the respawn queue.</li></ul>
In my opinion, this simple tweaks could bring back devour and kill the problems it had caused in NS1.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
agree 100%
Consider the marine dead as soon as the onos eats him. The marine is put in que for an IP. if by chance the onos dies while the marine is in que then he is spawned at the dead onos and the next marine in que gets spawned at the IP. The marine can still have communication ability and a nice view of the onos' belly but as far as the game is concerned, the marine is dead until saved, and thus put in que to spawn at base.
No added spawn time resulting in A.D.D rage
The complaint people have about it being a 1 shot kill. At this point in the game, it should be sloping in one teams favor already. We dont know much about marine endgame. Exo suit and the small details we have been given make it seem even more OP then the onos is. Both can be easily balanced.
As far as im concerned, devour is as much part of the NS universe as the Onos itself. I am disappointed in seeing it not included in NS2.
I'm not saying that some changes couldn't make it a fun mechanic. But is the single, and only reason that I was immediately done with the first game, and had never gotten into it in the first place.
I have faith in Unknown Worlds to do the Onos right, but I just figured that I would put my two cents in.
I'm not saying that some changes couldn't make it a fun mechanic. But is the single, and only reason that I was immediately done with the first game, and had never gotten into it in the first place.
I have faith in Unknown Worlds to do the Onos right, but I just figured that I would put my two cents in.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You had the misfortune of joing a game that was already lost. Generally I would expect a bit more.... Effort? On your part before abandoning a game. I had a similar experience playing BF3. My first times flying were miserable. But I stuck with it an learned how to play better. Now I am a decent pilot. Don't give up so easily.
I'm not saying that some changes couldn't make it a fun mechanic. But is the single, and only reason that I was immediately done with the first game, and had never gotten into it in the first place.
I have faith in Unknown Worlds to do the Onos right, but I just figured that I would put my two cents in.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Your first experience with NS1 was an unfortunate one. If you had played a game from start to finish you would understand why devour is so fun and essential.
On a side note, I had read an idea not too long ago from one of the community members (sorry, I can't find it to quote) but it implied that onos' should only be allowed to devour a marine after they are gored and unable to move. This makes perfect sense to me as the marine is already at low health after being gored, and I'm sure but 2 gores should be enough to kill a marine (not sure how upgrades play into that). So instead of a simple 2 gore fatality, add a bit of flare and excitement with a gore then devour combo to kill a marine. Just imagine 2 onos' working together to punt one marine into the other onos' mouth.
pleeeeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaaaaaase bring back devour.
Yeah, but this caused all the hate. You don't want to punish a player with longer respawn time. It's not fun. And since NS2 is a new game, we don't need to implement this punishment. We will find other ways to make devour useful AND fun for both sides.
We are in no need to slow down the marine spawning. There are other ways to balance the endgame and circumvent stalemates.
+1 to bringing back devour.
we can all agree that the onos was cool looking in ns and provided that "oh noes here it comes" type of adrenaline rush when you see an onos for the first time, but the onos was never fun to PLAY. your job as an onos is to tank all the marine bullets until they run out of ammo and are vulnerable. i'm yawning just thinking about it.
devour prevented a marine from even playing the game. how is that fun for anyone?
incoming gameplay disaster
And don't try this cheap "everyone hates devour"-tactic. It's simply not true! It's controversial, yes. But I think it is able to be balanced AND a very unique NS mechanic. So lets be constructive. What is the problem with devour?
<ul><li>one hit kill, let the player feel powerless</li><li>boring for the player being devoured because of longer respawn time</li></ul>
At the first point, this may be true. BUT there is a shotgun. And it's wrong too, that this thing can one-hit-kill. At least an ONOS costs 70 res. What does the shotgun cost? So don't argue with this. An endgame monster like the onos can have the ability to one-hit-kill, when it is balanced. So what is to do to balance it?
<ul><li>Make the onos really slow while devouring, to make devour situational. For example he could be unable to gain momentum while devouring. This would stop them from using it to pick one marine off a group and run away. Instead it would be used to quickly eat the last marine of a group, where the onos has killed everyone else. also it could have a slow healing effect encourage the onos to use it in this situation.</li><li>Set the devoured marine instantly on the respawn queue. Let him see the inside of the onos and grand the possibility to get freed by your team members. But if your normal respawn counter has ended, just let him respawn. This way you don't lose time and its not more boring than waiting in the respawn queue.</li></ul>
In my opinion, this simple tweaks could bring back devour and kill the problems it had caused in NS1.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Devour is needed once exosuits are included. Thats just a fact I think. Once marines get exosuits and rush, current alien teams cannot fight that.
However, to make digestion less boring I suggest allowing marines to knife the onos from the inside (perhaps steadily slower until the moment of death?). Not much damage, but at least the marine can feel he is contributing to his escape.
Much agreed. Devour would be nice to have back.
The Onos definitely needs work right now as it stands; it feels rather sluggish.