<!--quoteo(post=1901484:date=Feb 10 2012, 01:05 AM:name=coldsmoke)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (coldsmoke @ Feb 10 2012, 01:05 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1901484"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->We can do this all day.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Do what? Me writing up my thoughts and ideas trying to create an open thought process and you just shrugging it all away without even going into a single detail? You do understand that i put alot of time, effort and thought into these posts?
So the least you could do is point out the flaws in my thought process instead of just declaring the whole thing "bull######" and attacking me on a personal level by ascribing me stupid personal motives i would gain nothing from. If you can't do that why even bother answering at all? Did i really offend you in such a bad way?!
<!--quoteo(post=1901280:date=Feb 10 2012, 01:22 AM:name=Squeal_Like_A_Pig)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Squeal_Like_A_Pig @ Feb 10 2012, 01:22 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1901280"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Yes. The reasons you state were why we implemented it the other way, first, so that players running the game in widescreen didn't get an unfair advantage. However, the majority of players have requested it be changed, since many people are running in widescreen. Also, NS2 is actually a bit different from other games, and having more vertical space can actually give players more of an advantage then horizontal space, with skulks running around below your view on the floor and up on the ceilings. So, really, there's no perfect way to do it, but for a variety of reasons we think it will be better to change it for widescreen formats.
--Cory<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> What about black bars? The viewable area is retained for non-16:9 setups (with black bars above and below; or to the left and right for ultra-widescreen setups), so it is consistent for all setups. Personally I think it would work best as a server option, so some people can have their eyefinity setups or whatever.
<!--quoteo(post=1901208:date=Feb 9 2012, 06:38 PM:name=rebirth)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (rebirth @ Feb 9 2012, 06:38 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1901208"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Imho i still think it would be kida counter-productive to fix an imbalance in the metagame by trying to mess around with the single units abilities, because then you have think about more variables that get affected by any balance changes compred to just overhauling the resource model which is why more "up" in the chain of mechanics and the original source of the problem.
The other issue is also that Flayra tries to combine mechanics that made NS unique and at the same time follow some "new age game rules" of instant gratification for every single player. Making the higher lifeforms more accessible is one of these examples, while for the individual player that change might sound/look good for somebody who likes/understands the mechanics behind the original NS this idea instantly looks like all kinds of trouble.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> The thing is, you have to choose, one or the other: - FPS-focused balance: everyone gets access to different units (fun!); requires re-balancing the units so that the power differential between units is significantly less (would probably also mean scaling down the unit costs across the board). This is more akin to something like TF2. - RTS-focused balance: scarce super-units; requires overhauling the resource model or the power-to-cost ratios - this is usually still reasonably okay on an FPS level, because this is a <b>team</b> game, so you can overwhelm powerful units with tactics and numbers. This is more akin to something like NS1. I see the value in either approach. NS2 tries to combine the two (super-units that everyone can get access to) and, naturally, it leads to inherent imbalances.
<!--quoteo(post=1901510:date=Feb 9 2012, 08:05 PM:name=rebirth)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (rebirth @ Feb 9 2012, 08:05 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1901510"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Do what? Me writing up my thoughts and ideas trying to create an open thought process and you just shrugging it all away without even going into a single detail? You do understand that i put alot of time, effort and thought into these posts?
So the least you could do is point out the flaws in my thought process instead of just declaring the whole thing "bull######" and attacking me on a personal level by ascribing me stupid personal motives i would gain nothing from. If you can't do that why even bother answering at all? Did i really offend you in such a bad way?!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I can keep calling you out for what you're doing, i'm just saying it how it is and I don't need a page full of text to do it. You don't know what you're talking about you just try to force game theory concepts where they don't apply effectively, unarticulated blabber passed off as psueto-intellectual lectures is some pretty funny stuff
matsoMaster of PatchesJoin Date: 2002-11-05Member: 7000Members, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, Squad Five Gold, Reinforced - Shadow, NS2 Community Developer
<!--quoteo(post=1900589:date=Feb 7 2012, 11:27 AM:name=reh)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (reh @ Feb 7 2012, 11:27 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1900589"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Not a bad idea at all, but I'm not sure how feasible it would be to code this. Could skulks use onoses as map geometry?
As for onos carrying gorge, I was actually fantasizing about exactly this a couple of weeks ago. From practical point of view, it shouldn't be too difficult to code. Remember the lerk mod for ns1, when lerk could pick up a gorge and swing it across the map? Might look a bit ridiculous though, a gorge dangling from onos' mouth by the scruff of his neck.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Add
function Onos:GetIsWallWalkingAllowed(walker) return true end
... you will probably notice why its not such a hot idea. Sitting on another player when they move will make you seasick. That being said, with a bit of tweaking here and there to smooth out the camera, it might work.
Press E on Onos as any non-Onos lifeform, get devoured and you sit inside his stomach, able to see through a membrane of sorts, press E again to get puked out :D
swalkSay hello to my little friend.Join Date: 2011-01-20Member: 78384Members, Squad Five Blue
edited February 2012
I think one of greater ideas of this thread(I believe this is in here :P didn't doublecheck though). Skulks being able to climb on onos, and lerks roosting on him, and stay on him while he is moving. Maybe even have the onos' momentum give a boost to the skulks momentum, if the skulk manages to get a well timed jump on the onos. Have anyone tried the first pass on celerity for onos, and in general? ;) cheats 1, dev 1 in console. Note: It is not implemented into the game yet, but you can still try celerity. If you play skulk, it's a good idea to enable the speedmeter(with jump timing meter as well). Open in steamapps/common/natural selection 2/ns2/lua/skulk_client.lua It's in the first few lines, speedmeter = false - change it to true The model of the Spun(ns1 movement chamber equalent) is not implemented yet. Hypermutation is not implemented yet. Hypermutation will allow you to change lifeforms at a cheaper cost. So if you're a gorge and want to go fade, it costs you 40 res.
We seem to be touching on a few topics that incidentally affect the Oh Shi-.
<b>Aliens blocking each other's movement</b>: This issue is most obvious with the Onos, but it does affect all alien players to some extent. I would be surprised if anybody here has not died a frustrating death at the hands of an unfortunate friendly collision while under fire. In NS1, I always remembered this perverse scenario where smaller units were terrified of getting underneath the feet of an Onos. Not because they were afraid of getting crushed, but because they were afraid of getting the Onos killed. That's backwards. My proposals: <ul><li>Much smaller collision boxes for friendly units. Allow skulks to intersect enough to let them squeeze past each other in vents. Lerk wings don't collide with friendlies. Aliens & Marines alike have an easier time using friendly structures as cover. Etc, etc.</li><li>Skulks, Gorges & Lerks that are on the ground do not collide with the Onos. Players underneath an Onos can not jump until they get out from under it.</li></ul> <b>Field of view differences causing perceived unfairness</b>: <ul><li>Main discussion here: <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=116308" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/in...howtopic=116308</a></li><li>Science here: <a href="http://youtu.be/blZUao2jTGA" target="_blank">http://youtu.be/blZUao2jTGA</a></li><li>Long story short: The human eye can only focus on a 60 degree FoV, letting someone have a 270 FoV with eyefinity isn't going to let them surpass their human limitations, but will let them play comfortably without receiving motion sickness (see science for explanation).</li></ul> <b>And in unrelated news</b>: Trample damage. 'Nuff said.
Erm, I love the knockdown effect, maybe you could stay on the floor until you decide to get up? I kinda want to rest on the floor while watching the onos walk towards me like in the teaser trailer. Oh and I love first person body awareness or seeing you legs or whatever it's called.
So just wondering if its an intended 'feature' to be able to block and trap onoses with armoury's. I know NS1 had ghost buildings, was this to prevent this from happening?
<!--quoteo(post=1902354:date=Feb 12 2012, 10:43 AM:name=elodea)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (elodea @ Feb 12 2012, 10:43 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1902354"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->So just wondering if its an intended 'feature' to be able to block and trap onoses with armoury's. I know NS1 had ghost buildings, was this to prevent this from happening?
yeah you can do that. i've done it to fades. don't think it's a huge problem though because an onos can kill an unbuilt armory in like 3 smash attacks. and the comm just spent 50 tres on helping kill a 75 pres lifeform (which could have escaped).
<!--quoteo(post=1902309:date=Feb 12 2012, 11:28 AM:name=Rokiyo)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Rokiyo @ Feb 12 2012, 11:28 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1902309"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><b>Aliens blocking each other's movement</b>:<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Yes, we've been looking into this a bit. We want to improve this, for the marine's as well. We'd like to make the collision with friendly units more forgiving. TF2 is a good example, for the way the characters are able to pass through one another when moving, and also there's a slight push applied as well. It is easier to do for human characters, but more challenging when it comes to 4 legged creatures, especially a large one like the Onos. His collision box is a lot smaller then the model to ease his movement, but it means there is a lot of clipping with the environment and with other players which can look pretty weird and ugly. <!--quoteo(post=1902354:date=Feb 12 2012, 02:43 PM:name=elodea)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (elodea @ Feb 12 2012, 02:43 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1902354"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->So just wondering if its an intended 'feature' to be able to block and trap onoses with armoury's.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> We've discussed this as well and will probably do something similar to the ghost buildings in NS1 to prevent the player from being blocked by unbuilt structures.
swalkSay hello to my little friend.Join Date: 2011-01-20Member: 78384Members, Squad Five Blue
<!--quoteo(post=1902412:date=Feb 12 2012, 09:10 PM:name=Squeal_Like_A_Pig)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Squeal_Like_A_Pig @ Feb 12 2012, 09:10 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1902412"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Yes, we've been looking into this a bit. We want to improve this, for the marine's as well. We'd like to make the collision with friendly units more forgiving. TF2 is a good example, for the way the characters are able to pass through one another when moving, and also there's a slight push applied as well. It is easier to do for human characters, but more challenging when it comes to 4 legged creatures, especially a large one like the Onos. His collision box is a lot smaller then the model to ease his movement, but it means there is a lot of clipping with the environment and with other players which can look pretty weird and ugly.
We've discussed this as well and will probably do something similar to the ghost buildings in NS1 to prevent the player from being blocked by unbuilt structures.
--Cory<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Good news, it was a really good system that made the tactic alot more costly, and lot less effective.
ÒŗăNģёJoin Date: 2012-02-09Member: 144437Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
Please, Please do not make the clipping like tf2!! As much as I hate being blocked by someone not paying attention I still LOVE to stack to get into vents early on!
Also the slight push from tf2 is actually quite annoying when you are a sniper or a class trying to steady you aim.
IeptBarakatThe most difficult name to speak ingame.Join Date: 2009-07-10Member: 68107Members, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow
Yeah, player stacking is an important part of classic ns fun, getting into them vents early on. Also tf2 clipping means all the marines could clip through to shoot in front of each other, sprinting through teammates to escape being killed, push a teammate to his death, the entire marine team jetpacking into a vent. And overall ruining some of the potential shenanigans.
If the system went in purely for the onos that would be fine. Although he'd be pushing around gorges and fades and still stop dead in his tracks at a single marine.
<!--quoteo(post=1902412:date=Feb 13 2012, 06:10 AM:name=Squeal_Like_A_Pig)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Squeal_Like_A_Pig @ Feb 13 2012, 06:10 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1902412"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It is easier to do for human characters, but more challenging when it comes to 4 legged creatures, especially a large one like the Onos. His collision box is a lot smaller then the model to ease his movement, but it means there is a lot of clipping with the environment and with other players which can look pretty weird and ugly.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I don't know how crazy you can get with this stuff... But would it be feasible to have one-way collisions? Ie, a skulk couldn't walk into the leg of an Onos, but an Onos could step on the skulk (and begin applying the push)?
Also, how about separate push/collision boxes for each of the legs, so that a small alien could pass underneath but still get nudged out of the limbs when still?
Lastly, while I'm waffling... Increasing the ground clearance of the Onos belly ever so slightly might allow a small alien to stand under the Onos without clipping into the belly. It seems pretty close to that point already.
<!--quoteo(post=1902455:date=Feb 13 2012, 08:52 AM:name=IeptBarakat)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (IeptBarakat @ Feb 13 2012, 08:52 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1902455"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Yeah, player stacking is an important part of classic ns fun, getting into them vents early on. Also tf2 clipping means all the marines could clip through to shoot in front of each other, sprinting through teammates to escape being killed, push a teammate to his death, the entire marine team jetpacking into a vent. And overall ruining some of the potential shenanigans.
If the system went in purely for the onos that would be fine. Although he'd be pushing around gorges and fades and still stop dead in his tracks at a single marine.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Yeah, removing the ability for players to boost each other would need to be carefully considered. Perhaps if they don't go quite so extreme as TF2 did, it may not be an issue. Perhaps they could do funky things with the collision boxes where you can pass freely through a friendly horizontally but not vertically. Not sure if that'd solve more problems than it fixed though...
It don't has to be "no collision" but the system could be a little bit more forgiving. Like slowly floating along each other. And not stopping to 0 just by touching another marine. It just feels awkward when stumbling into another marine. It feels like lag, because you don't even stop to 0, but shacking against, while moving.
Comments
Do what? Me writing up my thoughts and ideas trying to create an open thought process and you just shrugging it all away without even going into a single detail?
You do understand that i put alot of time, effort and thought into these posts?
So the least you could do is point out the flaws in my thought process instead of just declaring the whole thing "bull######" and attacking me on a personal level by ascribing me stupid personal motives i would gain nothing from. If you can't do that why even bother answering at all? Did i really offend you in such a bad way?!
--Cory<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What about black bars? The viewable area is retained for non-16:9 setups (with black bars above and below; or to the left and right for ultra-widescreen setups), so it is consistent for all setups. Personally I think it would work best as a server option, so some people can have their eyefinity setups or whatever.
<!--quoteo(post=1901208:date=Feb 9 2012, 06:38 PM:name=rebirth)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (rebirth @ Feb 9 2012, 06:38 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1901208"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Imho i still think it would be kida counter-productive to fix an imbalance in the metagame by trying to mess around with the single units abilities, because then you have think about more variables that get affected by any balance changes compred to just overhauling the resource model which is why more "up" in the chain of mechanics and the original source of the problem.
The other issue is also that Flayra tries to combine mechanics that made NS unique and at the same time follow some "new age game rules" of instant gratification for every single player. Making the higher lifeforms more accessible is one of these examples, while for the individual player that change might sound/look good for somebody who likes/understands the mechanics behind the original NS this idea instantly looks like all kinds of trouble.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The thing is, you have to choose, one or the other:
- FPS-focused balance: everyone gets access to different units (fun!); requires re-balancing the units so that the power differential between units is significantly less (would probably also mean scaling down the unit costs across the board). This is more akin to something like TF2.
- RTS-focused balance: scarce super-units; requires overhauling the resource model or the power-to-cost ratios - this is usually still reasonably okay on an FPS level, because this is a <b>team</b> game, so you can overwhelm powerful units with tactics and numbers. This is more akin to something like NS1.
I see the value in either approach. NS2 tries to combine the two (super-units that everyone can get access to) and, naturally, it leads to inherent imbalances.
You do understand that i put alot of time, effort and thought into these posts?
So the least you could do is point out the flaws in my thought process instead of just declaring the whole thing "bull######" and attacking me on a personal level by ascribing me stupid personal motives i would gain nothing from. If you can't do that why even bother answering at all? Did i really offend you in such a bad way?!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I can keep calling you out for what you're doing, i'm just saying it how it is and I don't need a page full of text to do it. You don't know what you're talking about you just try to force game theory concepts where they don't apply effectively, unarticulated blabber passed off as psueto-intellectual lectures is some pretty funny stuff
As for onos carrying gorge, I was actually fantasizing about exactly this a couple of weeks ago. From practical point of view, it shouldn't be too difficult to code. Remember the lerk mod for ns1, when lerk could pick up a gorge and swing it across the map? Might look a bit ridiculous though, a gorge dangling from onos' mouth by the scruff of his neck.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Add
function Onos:GetIsWallWalkingAllowed(walker)
return true
end
... you will probably notice why its not such a hot idea. Sitting on another player when they move will make you seasick. That being said, with a bit of tweaking here and there to smooth out the camera, it might work.
Press E on Onos as any non-Onos lifeform, get devoured and you sit inside his stomach, able to see through a membrane of sorts, press E again to get puked out :D
So much win.
[this post has been helpfully edited by Cory]
[this post has been helpfully edited by Cory]
Thanks.
--Cory
Skulks being able to climb on onos, and lerks roosting on him, and stay on him while he is moving.
Maybe even have the onos' momentum give a boost to the skulks momentum, if the skulk manages to get a well timed jump on the onos.
Have anyone tried the first pass on celerity for onos, and in general? ;) cheats 1, dev 1 in console.
Note: It is not implemented into the game yet, but you can still try celerity.
If you play skulk, it's a good idea to enable the speedmeter(with jump timing meter as well).
Open in steamapps/common/natural selection 2/ns2/lua/skulk_client.lua
It's in the first few lines, speedmeter = false - change it to true
The model of the Spun(ns1 movement chamber equalent) is not implemented yet.
Hypermutation is not implemented yet. Hypermutation will allow you to change lifeforms at a cheaper cost.
So if you're a gorge and want to go fade, it costs you 40 res.
<b>Aliens blocking each other's movement</b>:
This issue is most obvious with the Onos, but it does affect all alien players to some extent. I would be surprised if anybody here has not died a frustrating death at the hands of an unfortunate friendly collision while under fire. In NS1, I always remembered this perverse scenario where smaller units were terrified of getting underneath the feet of an Onos. Not because they were afraid of getting crushed, but because they were afraid of getting the Onos killed. That's backwards.
My proposals:
<ul><li>Much smaller collision boxes for friendly units. Allow skulks to intersect enough to let them squeeze past each other in vents. Lerk wings don't collide with friendlies. Aliens & Marines alike have an easier time using friendly structures as cover. Etc, etc.</li><li>Skulks, Gorges & Lerks that are on the ground do not collide with the Onos. Players underneath an Onos can not jump until they get out from under it.</li></ul>
<b>Field of view differences causing perceived unfairness</b>:
<ul><li>Main discussion here: <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=116308" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/in...howtopic=116308</a></li><li>Science here: <a href="http://youtu.be/blZUao2jTGA" target="_blank">http://youtu.be/blZUao2jTGA</a></li><li>Long story short: The human eye can only focus on a 60 degree FoV, letting someone have a 270 FoV with eyefinity isn't going to let them surpass their human limitations, but will let them play comfortably without receiving motion sickness (see science for explanation).</li></ul>
<b>And in unrelated news</b>:
Trample damage. 'Nuff said.
very interesting clip
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EhWB_wF2RHU" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EhWB_wF2RHU</a>
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EhWB_wF2RHU" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EhWB_wF2RHU</a><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
yeah you can do that. i've done it to fades. don't think it's a huge problem though because an onos can kill an unbuilt armory in like 3 smash attacks. and the comm just spent 50 tres on helping kill a 75 pres lifeform (which could have escaped).
Yes, we've been looking into this a bit. We want to improve this, for the marine's as well. We'd like to make the collision with friendly units more forgiving. TF2 is a good example, for the way the characters are able to pass through one another when moving, and also there's a slight push applied as well. It is easier to do for human characters, but more challenging when it comes to 4 legged creatures, especially a large one like the Onos. His collision box is a lot smaller then the model to ease his movement, but it means there is a lot of clipping with the environment and with other players which can look pretty weird and ugly.
<!--quoteo(post=1902354:date=Feb 12 2012, 02:43 PM:name=elodea)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (elodea @ Feb 12 2012, 02:43 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1902354"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->So just wondering if its an intended 'feature' to be able to block and trap onoses with armoury's.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
We've discussed this as well and will probably do something similar to the ghost buildings in NS1 to prevent the player from being blocked by unbuilt structures.
--Cory
We've discussed this as well and will probably do something similar to the ghost buildings in NS1 to prevent the player from being blocked by unbuilt structures.
--Cory<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Good news, it was a really good system that made the tactic alot more costly, and lot less effective.
Also the slight push from tf2 is actually quite annoying when you are a sniper or a class trying to steady you aim.
If the system went in purely for the onos that would be fine. Although he'd be pushing around gorges and fades and still stop dead in his tracks at a single marine.
I don't know how crazy you can get with this stuff... But would it be feasible to have one-way collisions? Ie, a skulk couldn't walk into the leg of an Onos, but an Onos could step on the skulk (and begin applying the push)?
Also, how about separate push/collision boxes for each of the legs, so that a small alien could pass underneath but still get nudged out of the limbs when still?
Lastly, while I'm waffling... Increasing the ground clearance of the Onos belly ever so slightly might allow a small alien to stand under the Onos without clipping into the belly. It seems pretty close to that point already.
<!--quoteo(post=1902455:date=Feb 13 2012, 08:52 AM:name=IeptBarakat)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (IeptBarakat @ Feb 13 2012, 08:52 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1902455"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Yeah, player stacking is an important part of classic ns fun, getting into them vents early on. Also tf2 clipping means all the marines could clip through to shoot in front of each other, sprinting through teammates to escape being killed, push a teammate to his death, the entire marine team jetpacking into a vent. And overall ruining some of the potential shenanigans.
If the system went in purely for the onos that would be fine. Although he'd be pushing around gorges and fades and still stop dead in his tracks at a single marine.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Yeah, removing the ability for players to boost each other would need to be carefully considered. Perhaps if they don't go quite so extreme as TF2 did, it may not be an issue. Perhaps they could do funky things with the collision boxes where you can pass freely through a friendly horizontally but not vertically. Not sure if that'd solve more problems than it fixed though...