Sentry Spam... Still a problem in Gorilla.
BearTaxi
Join Date: 2011-11-15 Member: 133064Members
Join Date: 2011-11-15 Member: 133064Members
So, just played my first full match on Gorilla. It was on summit and I was an alien. Here's what happened.
Game was back and forth for a bit, then we managed to get third hive. Then fourth hive. We had entire map dominance and enough res to keep us going seemingly forever.
15 minutes later and we were still stuck outside marine spawn. There weren't even a massive amount of sentries, but with marines covering them and repairs being done, it was enough to stalemate even against 4 hive onos/gorge combinations. The marines started pushing back and killed one of our hives, which was promptly taken back. The game ended up getting so laggy due to so many entities that I just gave up and left.
I know a lot of balance issues are still being tweaked, but it seems like this happens in almost every public game I play. Something has got to be done about it. It just really is not fun at all.
Gorilla was meant to help with stalemates, but it seems it has not. Yes that seems a somewhat passive agressive statement, but I do not mean it to be. I know work is being done, I would just like this to be a higher priority, because it is taking all the fun out of NS2.
Game was back and forth for a bit, then we managed to get third hive. Then fourth hive. We had entire map dominance and enough res to keep us going seemingly forever.
15 minutes later and we were still stuck outside marine spawn. There weren't even a massive amount of sentries, but with marines covering them and repairs being done, it was enough to stalemate even against 4 hive onos/gorge combinations. The marines started pushing back and killed one of our hives, which was promptly taken back. The game ended up getting so laggy due to so many entities that I just gave up and left.
I know a lot of balance issues are still being tweaked, but it seems like this happens in almost every public game I play. Something has got to be done about it. It just really is not fun at all.
Gorilla was meant to help with stalemates, but it seems it has not. Yes that seems a somewhat passive agressive statement, but I do not mean it to be. I know work is being done, I would just like this to be a higher priority, because it is taking all the fun out of NS2.
Comments
Regardless that Gorilla hasn't completely solved the stalemate issue, you certainly must admit it did <b>help</b> with it. With total map dominance, organizing a huge Onos rush should be no problem at all, especially as you've claimed that marines were completely locked in their main base. I can't fathom a marine team with as many sentries as possible could hold off anymore than 6 Onos's at one time, let alone an entire alien team gone Onos.
No one wants to play gorgie right now though.
If you can team up with a lerk providing gas cover or a onos acting as a tank its gg in 10s.
Also sentrys can be distracted by gas.
Stalemates are only a problem on pub games but if you have a buddy that gorges up with you, you 2 alone can make the marines loose. Just get in the base when they are busy somwhere else.
Obviously if the onos does not know what its doing then thats a problem, but as a lone onos with no gorge I managed to take out 5 marines, 2 turrets and allow everyone in to attack the cc. We won and I didn't lose my Onos.
Obviously I was running in and out to regen, but it can be done if the play is sensible. Obviously against a team of organised marines, the aliens still need to organise to break it down.
Sentry spam will not change though, until they drastically change the sentry gameplay.
I've always said I would rather see them as 'corridor' stoppers, like the the aliens movies. Yes, I can already hear you shouting 'they'd be overpowered', but not if they were nerfed in practically every other way. FOV, rear attack, cost, etc... If you drastically drop FOV, they become useless in rooms anyway.
They could even be something else, but not sure what.
Mines can be used for defending structures, but I don't think they should blow each other up as easily. They seem to go through walls when exploding mines nearby.
No one wants to play gorgie right now though.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Why? They got bilebomb range buffed and AOE buffed.
They should be like playing an ARC cannon right now.
<!--quoteo(post=1899482:date=Feb 4 2012, 01:09 AM:name=Wheeee)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Wheeee @ Feb 4 2012, 01:09 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1899482"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->i want the ammo count on sentries lowered, that way aliens can actually concievably run them out of ammo in a timely fashion.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I want the ammo count removed and them balanced properly, it's a really silly idea, the only time it actually does anything is if you forget to reload them, but considering the damage they do, spending res on sentry ammo is probably far better than spending it on ammo packs and medpacks. Sentries can't miss.
It's fairly expensive and unwieldy to replace MACs, and bile bomb does insane damage very easily. The 'turrets per room' limit also affects how well they can flank each other and that kind of thing.
The games I've seen where we got demolished by sentries were largely the result of teammates being idiots - spawning and running at the turrets over and over expecting a miracle instead of going around another way.
Sentries also don't move like ARCs. Unless they're shooting your hive, they're not that big of a threat and you can nullify them by attacking elsewhere to split the marines' attention. There are a lot of RTS concepts that people aren't applying when they look at things like sentries and cry about perceived imbalances.
If anything should change, it's probably the fact that hydras are completely horrible. If they were even half as "attention-getting" as sentries, the game would be a lot more interesting. I want to see stubborn marines crying like "OMG HYDRA SO IMBA I GOTTA LOOK AT CEILIN 2 SHOOT IT SO OP"
Mm, I think hydras are actually good as they are, at least, to fight against anyway.
If you do anything to them, make them cheaper, they cost 10 pres so there's lots of room for tweaking there, maybe 7 or 8 res would be a better price to start with? Make them a bit more common and they should perform better. They work well, especially in groups, you just don't see many of them.
Being in groups means that when grenades/flames/ARCs arrive your single point of failure becomes just that. Game after game I see players who are afraid to improve their core FPS skills (movement and aiming) go gorge, spam hydras thinking it's useful and then watch them all get mowed down like nothing. The same exact thing happened all the time in NS1. It's sad to see that hasn't been recognized and dealt with.
In my experience in most games that get bogged down the cause is the winning team not being coordinated enough any more. I've seen several alien teams clearly winning in terms of map control and hives but only ever 1 Onos or 2 Fades at a time. Then when they trying to tackle the marine bases with only Skulks and a single Gorge in support die almost immediately. A cycle develops with players developing to higher lifeforms out of sync and then dying quickly - wasting large amounts of Pres which even with many res nodes still takes a while to re-accumulate.
It would give marines time to react, repairing would help upkeep and territorial control, and it would prevent the annoyance of sentries.