<!--quoteo(post=1897768:date=Jan 27 2012, 10:48 PM:name=Chris0132)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Chris0132 @ Jan 27 2012, 10:48 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1897768"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->No, I played public games, the kind of game most people would play.
If the game is that different between public and organised play, there's something wrong.
Aliens cannot have needed or benefitted much from teamwork, because if they did they would win every game.
Aliens were much stronger than individual marines, especially once you got fades on the field, if aliens got as strong as marines did due to teamwork then they would be tougher, faster, more destructive, more independent, and just generally invincible in groups. There would be nothing the marines could do to stop them because they just didn't have a high skill ceiling in the later stages of the game.
Aliens benefitted from weight of numbers, as any group of players would, but they did not need teamwork. Umbra wouldn't work in many situations because of the size of the rooms and mobility of aliens, not to mention that marines could have jetpacks, it'd just be impossible to use it effectively enough to make it a case of 'if you don't have it then you're dead'. Onoses wouldn't work against an entire base on their own, but two or three of them would destroy the base easily, even if they died afterwards the base would be gone, you just couldn't kill them fast enough. Again weight of numbers, not teamwork. They don't require any particular support, just enough HP/DPS to beat the marine HP/DPS, that's not teamwork, that's a lot of people trying to do the same thing at the same time.
It just isn't comparable to marines, who were pretty useless individually but very hard to beat when in a cohesive group. When one sees an alien and starts shooting, the rest do too, when one is hurt the rest heal him, when one is attacked the others protect him, that's teamwork, not just 'everyone attack at the same time'.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I agree with Weee. The servers i played on (competitive gamers pubbing) 1 marine could solo a medocre fade or 3 skulks with some pistol ammo in his clip to spare.
Lone skulks were dead. Lerks caught stand still for more than 3 seconds dead. Fades meeting more than 3 marines.. dead. Lone onos? DEAD. One jet pack would kill the onos chasing his elephant butt down.
What this is coming down to is your experience, not how the game is made. If you were on a team of horrible marines with all star aliens to contend with you would be screaming for balance changes to make aliens weaker.
It isnt the game but your experience. Sounds like you were on Noob servers (i dont mean noob in the negative, but just a bunch of new players). People did tend to gravitate to marines because it was more comfortable, but once you got used to aliens they were really fun and required a lot of teamwork. The gorge class alone made it impossible without it.
And just a small point. Umbra spread really well when shot at the ground no matter how big the room. Umbra was not useless and was the savoir of MANY games. There a lot of other assumed points and things i disagree with, but ill let them go so we dont continue arguing opinion from our very different experiences.
edit: "Odd as I see far more cooperation between aliens than I did in NS1, regularly see a few skulks working together, fades and gorges hanging out, hell even a pair of gorges working together being really hard to kill."
It isnt the changes, but the player base. You have NS1 vets playing a lot of the time. The games i speak of in NS1 are because of these people. This is how the game is MEANT to be played. Nothing the devs did changed anything.
Editx2:
I see LESS teamwork now btw. Aliens leave it up to the alien comm to do whatever while they rambo more. There is a serious disconnect. Not like the alien comm has sieges to deploy or need of a builder class. They are on their own to manage res.
fanaticThis post has been edited.Join Date: 2003-07-23Member: 18377Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
I always love reading Chris' posts, because he makes it sound like he played a completely different game than everybody else.
Marines benefit more from teamplay than aliens? Aliens are the "rambo" team? Marines have a lower skill ceiling than aliens?
It's like he's posting from a different dimension, where everything is opposite from this one. You wear pants on your head and marines are useless individually.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I see LESS teamwork now btw. Aliens leave it up to the alien comm to do whatever while they rambo more. There is a serious disconnect.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Only really true on public... and to a good part its the respawn-rate that allows aliens to do that - i think. (if you reduce it/make it more like ns1, ppl will slowly learn again, that wasting your skulk life in solo suicide actions all the time will/can have consequences)
(other reasons for rambo are, the problematic pres system, and questionable balance of some lifeforms, ...)
edit: After a bit more thinking... im not sure anymore, maybe it really is less - but not extremely less. (it would be better to say it that way: currently, a LOT more rambo is possible in organized games on alien side)
<!--quoteo(post=1897755:date=Jan 27 2012, 07:20 PM:name=Chris0132)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Chris0132 @ Jan 27 2012, 07:20 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1897755"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->If you sped the lerk up significantly you'd just make it really hard to control in the tight corridors that comprise most of NS2's environments.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> A few points: 1. "really hard" is very subjective. 2. That depends on the map, doesn't it? 3. What fun is it if there's nothing to learn and improve on? 4. You dont <i>have</i> to fly at max speed if you can't manage it, e.g. there is an "air brake" (press shift).
<!--quoteo(post=1897810:date=Jan 27 2012, 10:24 PM:name=Koruyo)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Koruyo @ Jan 27 2012, 10:24 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1897810"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Only really true on public... and to a good part its the respawn-rate that allows aliens to do that - i think. (if you reduce it/make it more like ns1, ppl will slowly learn again, that wasting your skulk life in solo suicide actions all the time will/can have consequences)
(other reasons for rambo are, the problematic pres system, and questionable balance of some lifeforms, ...)
edit: After a bit more thinking... im not sure anymore, maybe it really is less - but not extremely less. (it would be better to say it that way: currently, a LOT more rambo is possible in organized games on alien side)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
right but the game should be promoting teamplay in pubs, should encourage it by its very nature. ns1 had tons of teamplay before there was any competitive community to speak of.
The teams are significantly unfinished. Life forms and features to still be added. So talking about overall balancing is irrelevant. They will also add more elements of team play and co-operation.
I posted this before (well in another forum) but I'd rather have both Spike and Bite and allow build diversity.
In NS1, there was a bit of build diversity to an extent (cloak vs focus and silence vs celerity are both examples).
IMO I think NS2 should open up build diversity.
There should be ways for players to play as an optimal Spike Lerk or an Optimal Bite Lerk.
As for shotgun spikes? I say keep that too. It may seem redundant to have long range spikes, shotgun spikes, and bite but I think something could be worked out.
As for slots? You'll probably want to use 5 at least 5 slots.
For example, spikes + shotgun spikes could cost more energy than bite. Making bite sort of that "knife weapon you pull out when you're out of ammo, except this time you can fly at the enemy".
However I think there should be ways to allow the player to chose what type of play style they want to play.
Finally as for long range spikes taking no skill? Yes there should be a trade off.
One example is spikes could be the weaker but easier to use weapon than shotgun spikes and bite but since it's weaker, it'll be evened out by it being easier.
You could make scenarios where a skilled marine would always defeat a lerk spikes unless the lerk was using spikes in a certain way <b>(the idea of spikes not being an instant hit weapon + it being affected by gravity sounds good). Another idea is to make spikes use up armor and energy or health and energy or something like that. Maybe using spikes can cost "temporarily" cost HP, and the Lerk needs to wait 10 seconds after not using Spikes to quickly recover that HP. That means the Lerk has to be careful when to use spikes (else the lerk can be one shot by a marine).</b>
An example in NS1 are grenade launchers. GLs are probably the easiest weapon to use in "general" but they were really weak against Onos and Fades (especially if you're alone against a fade with only a GL). The GL can become the hardest weapon to use if you're trying to use GLs to hit a blinking fade (if you can land all 4 nades directly on the fade then you'll be able to kill it... with weapon upgrades at least).
Spikes can be that sort of weapon and bite could be the "HMG" for lerks.
Another comparison is Protoss in Starcraft 1. Protoss is the easiest race to play at lower to middle levels (even Korean pro gamers who play Protoss acknowledge that) but it is the hardest race to win at the highest level of play (Terran is probably a bit easier to play than Protoss at pro game levels). Spikes can be like Protoss (effective to use easy but not the best), while Bite can be like Terran (hard to use but can be the best if used properly).
<b>So the idea regarding lerk spikes costing temporary HP to use for example - that means a skilled marine can easily counter a lerk using spikes... unless the lerk using spikes is too skilled and good at avoiding attacks and being out of sight.</b> So, using an easier to use weapon will come at the cost of being easier to defeat when you're against a skilled player (unless you're better than that skilled player) similar to the Protoss vs Terran comparison.
<u><b>tl;dr</b></u> - Find a way to keep spikes, shotgun spikes, and bite all on the lerk. Also allow build diversity and allow a player to chose to be either a long ranged lerk, a short ranged lerk, or whatever. Also spikes can be easier to use than bite or shotgun spikes but with a tradeoff of it being weaker (also spikes should probably not be instant and be affected by gravity).
Edit - Also sorry for the wall of text. A lot of the things there (like the GL example) aren't needed and a bit redundant with the SC1 example but I wanted to leave the GL example as food for thought (not just for spikes but NS2 in general). Same with other stuff (food for thought). I bolded anything that was more relevant on what to do with spikes.
Actually here's another Starcraft comparison. David Kim ( balance designer for SC2 + he was actually good in SC2 and was in Grand Master a few seasons ago) stated that while Zerg has the hardest "macro ability" (Queen larva injecting vs Terran MULE drops vs Protoss Chrono Boost), then stated it was probably balance in other areas.
While Zerg does have the harder macro ability (it's harder to use creep tumors and larva than Terran's stuff), David Kim states that since Zerg is the easiest race to macro due to the larva system, it's made up for harder macro abilities.
Terran does have the easiest macro ability (MULEs) but it's made up for the fact that Terran is hardest to macro. Not only building units but building structures. You'll notice at lower levels of play, Terran typically forget to build barracks and other stuff at an adequate level (they may be floating on tons of minreals) while Zerg and Protoss less likely does that (it still happens but less likely than Terran).
<b>Basically, David Kim feels the three race's macro abilities is balanced by the race's strength and weaknesses in other areas.</b>
(Of course I know some may debate Terran may be easier to play at lower levels due to how effective and flexible unit compositions can be that, Blizzard does acknowledge that (and will attempt to fix it in the expansion) but the point is that type of balance philosophy is agreeable IMO.)
Just something to keep in mind for NS2 too. It doesn't always have to be balanced in the same area.
(For tl;dr version, just only read the bold part of my post.)
It's safe to say the lerk bite would look rather odd i'm assuming.. Maybe the physics engine isn't tailored to suit motion of the bite ..after the bite and the model movement..it looks complicated to implement this in the game now.. Why in the world would you want to get so close anyways? I found the lerk bite sound in ns1 rather annoying. ...oh well.
It seems this thread is split into the ns1 vet group that wants "ns1 with better graphics" and everyone who wants to change what "worked" in ns1 for the "better".
UWE already brought back so much stuff from ns1 for you guys, but pretty soon they gotta draw the line somewhere...
<!--quoteo(post=1898054:date=Jan 29 2012, 10:44 AM:name=saltybp53)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (saltybp53 @ Jan 29 2012, 10:44 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1898054"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It seems this thread is split into the ns1 vet group that wants "ns1 with better graphics" and everyone who wants to change what "worked" in ns1 for the "better".
UWE already brought back so much stuff from ns1 for you guys, but pretty soon they gotta draw the line somewhere...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Why do they have to draw the line? NS1 was hugely successful. Given the option to play NS1 with better graphics, or the current NS2 and the direction its going, I'd choose NS1 with better graphics every time.
I think they've done good work on NS2, but I've never agreed with most of the deviation from the original game.
<!--quoteo(post=1898073:date=Jan 29 2012, 01:40 PM:name=Jerunk)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jerunk @ Jan 29 2012, 01:40 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1898073"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Why do they have to draw the line? NS1 was hugely successful. Given the option to play NS1 with better graphics, or the current NS2 and the direction its going, I'd choose NS1 with better graphics every time.
I think they've done good work on NS2, but I've never agreed with most of the deviation from the original game.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> You have to remember that ns1 had a huge learning curve, which drove away frustrated players. UWE is trying to appeal to both the niche community and players interested in their product, but don't have time to learn the complicated mechanics of the game. I remember the philosophy for ns2 was "easy to learn, but hard to master". They have been adding more ns1 mechanics to the game, and the game has been slowly moving away from the easy to learn principle.
Don't get me wrong, I still want that ns1 feeling, but I want players to enjoy it on a more larger scale rather then get beat up constantly from vet players, lack of help, and confusing mechanics and quit out of frustration.
<!--quoteo(post=1898073:date=Jan 29 2012, 02:40 PM:name=Jerunk)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jerunk @ Jan 29 2012, 02:40 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1898073"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Why do they have to draw the line? NS1 was hugely successful. Given the option to play NS1 with better graphics, or the current NS2 and the direction its going, I'd choose NS1 with better graphics every time.
I think they've done good work on NS2, but I've never agreed with most of the deviation from the original game.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
ns1 was hugely successful, but it could be even more so hugely successful.
<!--quoteo(post=1898073:date=Jan 29 2012, 05:40 PM:name=Jerunk)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jerunk @ Jan 29 2012, 05:40 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1898073"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Why do they have to draw the line? NS1 was hugely successful. Given the option to play NS1 with better graphics, or the current NS2 and the direction its going, I'd choose NS1 with better graphics every time.
I think they've done good work on NS2, but I've never agreed with most of the deviation from the original game.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I agree with this whole heartily. NS2 is a confused mess. NS1 is a proven product. The average gamer is much more advanced than when NS1 came out. Look at your standard shooter now... Levels, builds, sprint, prone, hold your breath, vehicles, and achieves. It is no longer the CS days of buy weapons and go. I played BF3 for a bit and was frustrated by the level 500 (exaggerated i know) killing me before i even had a chance to get my bearing. There is no hand holding and certainly no handicaps.
Stop treating the average gamer like an idiot. Pander too much to the easy to learn and you get a forgettable game. Dont make it easy to learn but DO make is accessible. No one complains at a hard to master mechanic when it is explained.
This is how i play public as alien. 6vs6 Take 5 Skulks and just try to "lock in" the marines into their main base while ur commander is expanding everywere. If the marines have bad aim ( 1 Skulk solo kills 2-3 marines ) you know its a free round.
Its REALLY easy to win as alien on public with "<u>zeeerg rush</u>" cuz its very common that beginners play marines all the time.
<!--quoteo(post=1898142:date=Jan 30 2012, 06:18 AM:name=BuzterOne)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BuzterOne @ Jan 30 2012, 06:18 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1898142"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->This is how i play public as alien. 6vs6 Take 5 Skulks and just try to "lock in" the marines into their main base while ur commander is expanding everywere. If the marines have bad aim ( 1 Skulk solo kills 2-3 marines ) you know its a free round.
Its REALLY easy to win as alien on public with "<u>zeeerg rush</u>" cuz its very common that beginners play marines all the time.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This was the strat in NS1 as well. There were no more than 2-3 ways out of MS. Contain them while you gorge built.
Comments
If the game is that different between public and organised play, there's something wrong.
Aliens cannot have needed or benefitted much from teamwork, because if they did they would win every game.
Aliens were much stronger than individual marines, especially once you got fades on the field, if aliens got as strong as marines did due to teamwork then they would be tougher, faster, more destructive, more independent, and just generally invincible in groups. There would be nothing the marines could do to stop them because they just didn't have a high skill ceiling in the later stages of the game.
Aliens benefitted from weight of numbers, as any group of players would, but they did not need teamwork. Umbra wouldn't work in many situations because of the size of the rooms and mobility of aliens, not to mention that marines could have jetpacks, it'd just be impossible to use it effectively enough to make it a case of 'if you don't have it then you're dead'. Onoses wouldn't work against an entire base on their own, but two or three of them would destroy the base easily, even if they died afterwards the base would be gone, you just couldn't kill them fast enough. Again weight of numbers, not teamwork. They don't require any particular support, just enough HP/DPS to beat the marine HP/DPS, that's not teamwork, that's a lot of people trying to do the same thing at the same time.
It just isn't comparable to marines, who were pretty useless individually but very hard to beat when in a cohesive group. When one sees an alien and starts shooting, the rest do too, when one is hurt the rest heal him, when one is attacked the others protect him, that's teamwork, not just 'everyone attack at the same time'.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I agree with Weee. The servers i played on (competitive gamers pubbing) 1 marine could solo a medocre fade or 3 skulks with some pistol ammo in his clip to spare.
Lone skulks were dead. Lerks caught stand still for more than 3 seconds dead. Fades meeting more than 3 marines.. dead. Lone onos? DEAD. One jet pack would kill the onos chasing his elephant butt down.
What this is coming down to is your experience, not how the game is made. If you were on a team of horrible marines with all star aliens to contend with you would be screaming for balance changes to make aliens weaker.
It isnt the game but your experience. Sounds like you were on Noob servers (i dont mean noob in the negative, but just a bunch of new players). People did tend to gravitate to marines because it was more comfortable, but once you got used to aliens they were really fun and required a lot of teamwork. The gorge class alone made it impossible without it.
And just a small point. Umbra spread really well when shot at the ground no matter how big the room. Umbra was not useless and was the savoir of MANY games. There a lot of other assumed points and things i disagree with, but ill let them go so we dont continue arguing opinion from our very different experiences.
edit:
"Odd as I see far more cooperation between aliens than I did in NS1, regularly see a few skulks working together, fades and gorges hanging out, hell even a pair of gorges working together being really hard to kill."
It isnt the changes, but the player base. You have NS1 vets playing a lot of the time. The games i speak of in NS1 are because of these people. This is how the game is MEANT to be played. Nothing the devs did changed anything.
Editx2:
I see LESS teamwork now btw. Aliens leave it up to the alien comm to do whatever while they rambo more. There is a serious disconnect. Not like the alien comm has sieges to deploy or need of a builder class. They are on their own to manage res.
/face meet the palm of my hand
Marines benefit more from teamplay than aliens?
Aliens are the "rambo" team?
Marines have a lower skill ceiling than aliens?
It's like he's posting from a different dimension, where everything is opposite from this one. You wear pants on your head and marines are useless individually.
Bizarro NS1.
lol, someone should mod that :D
Now where's my Friday scotch..
Now where's my Friday scotch..<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Problem is we do, we really do...
Only really true on public... and to a good part its the respawn-rate that allows aliens to do that - i think. (if you reduce it/make it more like ns1, ppl will slowly learn again, that wasting your skulk life in solo suicide actions all the time will/can have consequences)
(other reasons for rambo are, the problematic pres system, and questionable balance of some lifeforms, ...)
edit: After a bit more thinking... im not sure anymore, maybe it really is less - but not extremely less. (it would be better to say it that way: currently, a LOT more rambo is possible in organized games on alien side)
A few points:
1. "really hard" is very subjective.
2. That depends on the map, doesn't it?
3. What fun is it if there's nothing to learn and improve on?
4. You dont <i>have</i> to fly at max speed if you can't manage it, e.g. there is an "air brake" (press shift).
(other reasons for rambo are, the problematic pres system, and questionable balance of some lifeforms, ...)
edit: After a bit more thinking... im not sure anymore, maybe it really is less - but not extremely less. (it would be better to say it that way: currently, a LOT more rambo is possible in organized games on alien side)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
right but the game should be promoting teamplay in pubs, should encourage it by its very nature. ns1 had tons of teamplay before there was any competitive community to speak of.
In NS1, there was a bit of build diversity to an extent (cloak vs focus and silence vs celerity are both examples).
IMO I think NS2 should open up build diversity.
There should be ways for players to play as an optimal Spike Lerk or an Optimal Bite Lerk.
As for shotgun spikes? I say keep that too. It may seem redundant to have long range spikes, shotgun spikes, and bite but I think something could be worked out.
As for slots? You'll probably want to use 5 at least 5 slots.
For example, spikes + shotgun spikes could cost more energy than bite. Making bite sort of that "knife weapon you pull out when you're out of ammo, except this time you can fly at the enemy".
However I think there should be ways to allow the player to chose what type of play style they want to play.
Finally as for long range spikes taking no skill? Yes there should be a trade off.
One example is spikes could be the weaker but easier to use weapon than shotgun spikes and bite but since it's weaker, it'll be evened out by it being easier.
You could make scenarios where a skilled marine would always defeat a lerk spikes unless the lerk was using spikes in a certain way <b>(the idea of spikes not being an instant hit weapon + it being affected by gravity sounds good). Another idea is to make spikes use up armor and energy or health and energy or something like that. Maybe using spikes can cost "temporarily" cost HP, and the Lerk needs to wait 10 seconds after not using Spikes to quickly recover that HP. That means the Lerk has to be careful when to use spikes (else the lerk can be one shot by a marine).</b>
An example in NS1 are grenade launchers. GLs are probably the easiest weapon to use in "general" but they were really weak against Onos and Fades (especially if you're alone against a fade with only a GL). The GL can become the hardest weapon to use if you're trying to use GLs to hit a blinking fade (if you can land all 4 nades directly on the fade then you'll be able to kill it... with weapon upgrades at least).
Spikes can be that sort of weapon and bite could be the "HMG" for lerks.
Another comparison is Protoss in Starcraft 1. Protoss is the easiest race to play at lower to middle levels (even Korean pro gamers who play Protoss acknowledge that) but it is the hardest race to win at the highest level of play (Terran is probably a bit easier to play than Protoss at pro game levels). Spikes can be like Protoss (effective to use easy but not the best), while Bite can be like Terran (hard to use but can be the best if used properly).
<b>So the idea regarding lerk spikes costing temporary HP to use for example - that means a skilled marine can easily counter a lerk using spikes... unless the lerk using spikes is too skilled and good at avoiding attacks and being out of sight.</b> So, using an easier to use weapon will come at the cost of being easier to defeat when you're against a skilled player (unless you're better than that skilled player) similar to the Protoss vs Terran comparison.
<u><b>tl;dr</b></u> - Find a way to keep spikes, shotgun spikes, and bite all on the lerk. Also allow build diversity and allow a player to chose to be either a long ranged lerk, a short ranged lerk, or whatever. Also spikes can be easier to use than bite or shotgun spikes but with a tradeoff of it being weaker (also spikes should probably not be instant and be affected by gravity).
Edit - Also sorry for the wall of text. A lot of the things there (like the GL example) aren't needed and a bit redundant with the SC1 example but I wanted to leave the GL example as food for thought (not just for spikes but NS2 in general). Same with other stuff (food for thought). I bolded anything that was more relevant on what to do with spikes.
Actually here's another Starcraft comparison. David Kim ( balance designer for SC2 + he was actually good in SC2 and was in Grand Master a few seasons ago) stated that while Zerg has the hardest "macro ability" (Queen larva injecting vs Terran MULE drops vs Protoss Chrono Boost), then stated it was probably balance in other areas.
While Zerg does have the harder macro ability (it's harder to use creep tumors and larva than Terran's stuff), David Kim states that since Zerg is the easiest race to macro due to the larva system, it's made up for harder macro abilities.
Terran does have the easiest macro ability (MULEs) but it's made up for the fact that Terran is hardest to macro. Not only building units but building structures. You'll notice at lower levels of play, Terran typically forget to build barracks and other stuff at an adequate level (they may be floating on tons of minreals) while Zerg and Protoss less likely does that (it still happens but less likely than Terran).
<b>Basically, David Kim feels the three race's macro abilities is balanced by the race's strength and weaknesses in other areas.</b>
(Of course I know some may debate Terran may be easier to play at lower levels due to how effective and flexible unit compositions can be that, Blizzard does acknowledge that (and will attempt to fix it in the expansion) but the point is that type of balance philosophy is agreeable IMO.)
Just something to keep in mind for NS2 too. It doesn't always have to be balanced in the same area.
(For tl;dr version, just only read the bold part of my post.)
UWE already brought back so much stuff from ns1 for you guys, but pretty soon they gotta draw the line somewhere...
UWE already brought back so much stuff from ns1 for you guys, but pretty soon they gotta draw the line somewhere...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Why do they have to draw the line? NS1 was hugely successful. Given the option to play NS1 with better graphics, or the current NS2 and the direction its going, I'd choose NS1 with better graphics every time.
I think they've done good work on NS2, but I've never agreed with most of the deviation from the original game.
I think they've done good work on NS2, but I've never agreed with most of the deviation from the original game.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You have to remember that ns1 had a huge learning curve, which drove away frustrated players. UWE is trying to appeal to both the niche community and players interested in their product, but don't have time to learn the complicated mechanics of the game. I remember the philosophy for ns2 was "easy to learn, but hard to master". They have been adding more ns1 mechanics to the game, and the game has been slowly moving away from the easy to learn principle.
Don't get me wrong, I still want that ns1 feeling, but I want players to enjoy it on a more larger scale rather then get beat up constantly from vet players, lack of help, and confusing mechanics and quit out of frustration.
I think they've done good work on NS2, but I've never agreed with most of the deviation from the original game.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
ns1 was hugely successful, but it could be even more so hugely successful.
I think they've done good work on NS2, but I've never agreed with most of the deviation from the original game.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I agree with this whole heartily. NS2 is a confused mess. NS1 is a proven product. The average gamer is much more advanced than when NS1 came out. Look at your standard shooter now... Levels, builds, sprint, prone, hold your breath, vehicles, and achieves. It is no longer the CS days of buy weapons and go. I played BF3 for a bit and was frustrated by the level 500 (exaggerated i know) killing me before i even had a chance to get my bearing. There is no hand holding and certainly no handicaps.
Stop treating the average gamer like an idiot. Pander too much to the easy to learn and you get a forgettable game. Dont make it easy to learn but DO make is accessible. No one complains at a hard to master mechanic when it is explained.
6vs6
Take 5 Skulks and just try to "lock in" the marines into their main base while ur commander is expanding everywere.
If the marines have bad aim ( 1 Skulk solo kills 2-3 marines ) you know its a free round.
Its REALLY easy to win as alien on public with "<u>zeeerg rush</u>" cuz its very common that beginners play marines all the time.
6vs6
Take 5 Skulks and just try to "lock in" the marines into their main base while ur commander is expanding everywere.
If the marines have bad aim ( 1 Skulk solo kills 2-3 marines ) you know its a free round.
Its REALLY easy to win as alien on public with "<u>zeeerg rush</u>" cuz its very common that beginners play marines all the time.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This was the strat in NS1 as well. There were no more than 2-3 ways out of MS. Contain them while you gorge built.