Mentoring newcomers and spectating players
Triggerman
Graphic Artist Join Date: 2004-11-10 Member: 32724Members, WC 2013 - Supporter
Graphic Artist Join Date: 2004-11-10 Member: 32724Members, WC 2013 - Supporter
<div class="IPBDescription">As seen in DotA2 and HoN</div>I think this game could use some of the new MOBA-type game features (DotA2, LoL, HoN) that basically is about players helping each other learn the game.
Especially games with a high skill ceiling (such as commanding), I truly see the point of allowing players learn from other players more about the meta-game at a rapidly faster pace.
<b>How could it be done then?</b>
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xNrW1qlAvGs&feature=player_detailpage#t=119s" target="_blank">HoN private spectating and private mentoring</a>
<b>Here's a clearer explanation of what this entails by Harimau:</b>
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><b>Public spectating</b>: This is what you're used to from Counter-Strike and Natural Selection. You connect to a server, you join the spectators, you can view the game from any perspective (sometimes limited by server options). You may chat to the entire server.
<b>Private spectating</b>: You send a request to a player to spectate them, they must accept your request. Having connected to the server, you now see the game exactly as they see it (it is not quite streaming, but it is basically a perfect simulation). This even includes when THEY spectate other players when they are dead. It will be announced to the entire server when someone connects to a server to spectate a player. You may chat (text or voice) to the spectated player alone.
<b>Private mentoring</b>: You send a request to a player to mentor them, they must accept your request. Having connected to the server, you now see the game exactly as they see it (it is not quite streaming, but it is basically a perfect simulation). This even includes when THEY spectate other players when they are dead. It will be announced to the entire server when someone connects to a server to mentor a player. You may chat (text or voice) to the mentored player alone*; the player has an extra channel (in addition to "all" and "team") that they can privately speak with the mentor on. You may also interact with the mentored player in other ways: For example, if you are mentoring the commander, you may be able to recommend certain actions by interacting with the screen, using your own cursor.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It's not a vital feature to have player-teaches-player system, but if the game suffers from the difficulty curve for new players, it could be part of the solution.
Especially games with a high skill ceiling (such as commanding), I truly see the point of allowing players learn from other players more about the meta-game at a rapidly faster pace.
<b>How could it be done then?</b>
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xNrW1qlAvGs&feature=player_detailpage#t=119s" target="_blank">HoN private spectating and private mentoring</a>
<b>Here's a clearer explanation of what this entails by Harimau:</b>
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><b>Public spectating</b>: This is what you're used to from Counter-Strike and Natural Selection. You connect to a server, you join the spectators, you can view the game from any perspective (sometimes limited by server options). You may chat to the entire server.
<b>Private spectating</b>: You send a request to a player to spectate them, they must accept your request. Having connected to the server, you now see the game exactly as they see it (it is not quite streaming, but it is basically a perfect simulation). This even includes when THEY spectate other players when they are dead. It will be announced to the entire server when someone connects to a server to spectate a player. You may chat (text or voice) to the spectated player alone.
<b>Private mentoring</b>: You send a request to a player to mentor them, they must accept your request. Having connected to the server, you now see the game exactly as they see it (it is not quite streaming, but it is basically a perfect simulation). This even includes when THEY spectate other players when they are dead. It will be announced to the entire server when someone connects to a server to mentor a player. You may chat (text or voice) to the mentored player alone*; the player has an extra channel (in addition to "all" and "team") that they can privately speak with the mentor on. You may also interact with the mentored player in other ways: For example, if you are mentoring the commander, you may be able to recommend certain actions by interacting with the screen, using your own cursor.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It's not a vital feature to have player-teaches-player system, but if the game suffers from the difficulty curve for new players, it could be part of the solution.
Comments
+1 for the idea. Mentoring for the RTS side would be very valuable, but the FPS side... I can't even imagine how it would work.
I suppose the idea should be named "private spectating" and "private mentoring", to distinguish from the standard FPS implementation of "public spectating". Enabling/Disabling private and/or public spectating should be two different server options.
And yup, I'd change the title of the topic if I could to "private spectating" but alas too late :(
Maybe being a mentor could be like a psuedo-commander that sees from the RTS perspective and is allowed to click on locations to create waypoints specific for that player?
Could help with objectives like building stuff, hiding spots, likely ambushes etc. The mentor should be limited to follow the player only and see only his vision (not seeing through vents etc). This however is clearly having an advantage but there could be an option server-side to allow/disallow it.
Spectators chat can't be heard by the people playing the game?
So as long as the server has open slots, everyone can spectate on the game being played without having an impact on the game.
<u>Public spectating</u>: This is what you're used to from Counter-Strike and Natural Selection. You connect to a server, you join the spectators, you can view the game from any perspective (sometimes limited by server options). You may chat to the entire server.
<u>Private spectating</u>: You send a request to a player to spectate them, they must accept your request. Having connected to the server, you now see the game <b>exactly as they see it</b> (it is not quite streaming, but it is basically a perfect simulation). This even includes when THEY spectate other players when they are dead. It will be announced to the entire server when someone connects to a server to spectate a player. You may chat (text or voice) to the spectated player alone*.
<u>Private mentoring</u>: You send a request to a player to mentor them, they must accept your request. Having connected to the server, you now see the game <b>exactly as they see it</b> (it is not quite streaming, but it is basically a perfect simulation). This even includes when THEY spectate other players when they are dead. It will be announced to the entire server when someone connects to a server to mentor a player. You may chat (text or voice) to the mentored player alone*; the player has an extra channel (in addition to "all" and "team") that they can privately speak with the mentor on. You may also interact with the mentored player in other ways: For example, if you are mentoring the commander, you may be able to recommend certain actions by interacting with the screen, using your own cursor.
Actually, mentoring is the least fleshed-out part of this idea, but the most valuable. It allows an experienced player to guide their inexperienced friend along.
* This detail is not necessarily required. It wouldn't be a terrible idea to let private spectators and private mentors chat with the rest of the server.
<b>Triggerman</b>: I'm thinking that if the mentor has a cursor, he might not necessarily require any view other than the mentored player's (thereby eliminating that potential advantage). He could click, and it would appear (kind of like a ping) on the player's HUD if they're on the ground (pointing out stuff they need to focus on), or as a kind of map ping if they're the commander. Pressing the map key would bring up the map which may be the most important tool for a mentor, where he could give private waypoints to the mentored ground player, or ping the map or recommend certain actions (do this research, build this structure) if they're the commander.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->FPS mentoring: The mentor spectates the player, but is able to move the cursor around the screen while he is playing as a ground unit. Clicking on the screen places a local waypoint in the world that can be on any game world surface seen by the player, for example pinging out a ventilation where a skulk may hide or suggesting a good spot to kill incoming enemies. The mentor can also bring up a map and place a waypoint that only that player may see.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Sounds like a good idea if this is what you had in mind!
since they plan to implement skill-based movement, this would be an opportunity to teach players how to do it. This would take a lot of the difficulty I assume and since it is in real-time it would be much more valuable then simple videos showing off what to do. (student could ask to repeat a certain action etc...)
in general +1 for the idea
however i think this should not be given a high priority as most players seem rather friendly (unlike in most free2play games) and answer peoples' questions.
also, there are already quite some ingame videos with voices explaining whats going on and one guy already mentioned that he was streaming. when the fps go up, maybe some more people will start streaming?
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->FPS mentoring: The mentor spectates the player, but is able to move the cursor around the screen while he is playing as a ground unit. Clicking on the screen places a local waypoint in the world that can be on any game world surface seen by the player, for example pinging out a ventilation where a skulk may hide or suggesting a good spot to kill incoming enemies. The mentor can also bring up a map and place a waypoint that only that player may see.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Sounds like a good idea if this is what you had in mind!
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Slightly more simple than that:
It simply draws a ping on the player's screen, not necessarily interacting with the game world. (And if the mentor wants to create a waypoint for the player, he can use the map key.) I went with this idea because I thought it would be relatively simple to implement.
But you know what, now that I think of it, it shouldn't be TOO difficult to have the game draw a "ray" where the mentor clicks, and where the ray meets the gameworld, it might place a notification/waypoint/whatever.
Actually, if we had all three of these ideas (draw on the player's screen, give waypoints on the map, AND draw rays onto the gameworld from the player's view which is kind of a combination of the first two), it would be ideal.
I'm not entirely keen on the idea of allowing the mentor temporary control of the character (to allow the teaching of skill-based movement).
Perhaps the mentor could use key-presses and mouse-motions, which would display on screen, which the player would attempt to follow... Kind of like a rhythm game :S
Other than that though, the best tools that the mentor would have in this case would be a private voice channel, and access to the player's point of view - oh, and a record of key-presses.
And I don't think mentors could possibly be able to in a meaningful way be able to teach the player stuff twitch-movements or by taking control over the player, I'd say it's up to the mentor to tell through VoIP rather than some cluttering HUD feature that you wouldn't be able to understand anyway ("W, A, S, A, RMB, LMB, LMB" etc...). It's not exactly a beat'em-up game where you perform specific attacks by pressing them in the right order, you mash the majority of the buttons just to move around the place.