Alien Random Start and Harvester Death

zombiehellmonkey

<div class="IPBDescription">proposal to make it easier for mappers</div><b>I feel that the requirement for the resource node and tech point to be within a certain distance of each other as too much of a design constraint for mappers</b>, i.e, if the resource node is too far away from the hive in an alien start, then the harvester dies because it is not connected by the hive's infestation.

I'd like to propose an alternative, and if other mappers agree then we can talk to the development team about implementing it.

What if the alien (starting) Harvester stays alive automatically if it is within the same Location as the Hive? This will give mappers more design freedom to be creative with their room layouts, rather than being forced to plant the tech point always next to the resource node <i><!--coloro:#FF0000--><span style="color:#FF0000"><!--/coloro-->so random alien starts don't have a suicidal harvester<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--></i>.

Tell me if you think this is a better idea as it will help preserve many of the current maps.

Wilson

Or just allow mappers to place a couple of initial cysts at each tech point.

Zeikko

The server generates cysts between the hive and the starting harvester automatically at game start nowadays.
I think your solution is worse than the current one because it restricts mappers to have the starting rt and hive in the same location entity which some mappers might not want to do.

konata

Hive & RT in same location name = Cyst travels.

I have one that travels half the room automatically.

SN.Wolf

Konata is correct, I made a little video showing this. The only issue I am seeing is elevation changes but this could be a pathing setting issue also.

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zombiehellmonkey

<!--quoteo(post=1892563:date=Jan 3 2012, 05:26 PM:name=SN.Wolf)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SN.Wolf @ Jan 3 2012, 05:26 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1892563"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Konata is correct, I made a little video showing this. The only issue I am seeing is elevation changes but this could be a pathing setting issue also.

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I'm having problems with the elevation issue, but I'll see if I can fix it with the pathing.

zombiehellmonkey

Wolf, could you tell me if you manage to sort this out by setting the path, I'm assuming that the cysts use the ground waypoints. I also have my resource node down some stairs.

SN.Wolf

<!--quoteo(post=1892588:date=Jan 3 2012, 06:53 PM:name=zombiehellmonkey)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (zombiehellmonkey @ Jan 3 2012, 06:53 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1892588"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Wolf, could you tell me if you manage to sort this out by setting the path, I'm assuming that the cysts use the ground waypoints. I also have my resource node down some stairs.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

As far as I understand the Waypoints are no longer used and they went with a auto generating mesh system- See--> <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=115160" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/in...howtopic=115160</a>

I did this test on a level I am building just to play with cinematics in, so I don't have any of the waypoints, air or ground in it. The Mapping Guide-lines really need some love (Hint, Hint). Problems with the Pathing System are the only thing keeping me from testing Clandestine.

zombiehellmonkey

I may just stick to fixed spawns then for now, or just delay the release of my alpha until this is sorted out. - I had no idea that the waypoint entities system was scrapped!

Kouji_San

The cysts indeed use the navigation mesh, you can even see this in action by enabling it in the console with "nav_debug" and placing cysts/mini-cysts


I'd love to see some more control other then setting props to be used for pathing or not and geometry... Like perhaps some new groupname that makes geometry invisible like the collusion mesh. Heck the collision mesh could maybe even be used for this as it is in there doing something quite similar already... You could then use that to fix the problem areas without actually having to change the visuals, by placing new props/geometry or moving props/geometry around :/


I guess there are some instances where you don't want the collision geometry used for pathing setting though... So a new group would definitely be better...

zombiehellmonkey

I seem to have all kinds of problems with the pathing system. In one room, instead of connecting directly to the harvester, the cysts travel all the way outside the room and tries to connect to it unsuccessfully from behind a wall on the otherside! All the commander needs to do once the game starts is drop a couple of cysts to keep the harvester alive, then the aliens have the advantage of an already infested outer perimeter for expansion! I honestly have no idea how to fix this as the information regarding pathing_settings is pretty limited.

zombiehellmonkey

I hope they can get this pathing system working. Personally, I think the alien start should work the same as with the marine start with power node powering the whole location - if the marine resource node is outside the location then it is unpowered, losing several ticks resources for marines. So whether the location is for marine or alien, essentially the resource node and tech point need to be in the same location <b>anyway</b>.

SN.Wolf

I'm hoping we will see some updates for the tools soon, As you can see from that other thread that the pathing is not okay at this point. I really wish they would have left it with the waypoints and let the collision geometry do it's job. One will never know what goes on in the mind of the creator so we have to wait it out.

Dghelneshi

<!--quoteo(post=1892705:date=Jan 5 2012, 10:17 AM:name=SN.Wolf)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SN.Wolf @ Jan 5 2012, 10:17 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1892705"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'm hoping we will see some updates for the tools soon<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Too bad noone seems to apply for their open Tools Programmer position :/ There is only so much one man can do at a time. People are crying from every direction right now.

SN.Wolf

<!--quoteo(post=1892787:date=Jan 5 2012, 07:08 PM:name=Dghelneshi)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dghelneshi @ Jan 5 2012, 07:08 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1892787"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Too bad noone seems to apply for their open Tools Programmer position :/ There is only so much one man can do at a time. People are crying from every direction right now.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Not to go off topic here but a majority of people bought into the pre-order under the posted release date of fall 2009 so the cries are validated. All we can do is wait patiently and check in on each patch to see what's fixed and what's broken and report in to help pinpoint issues.

Back on subject: I can't figure out for the life of me why the official maps don't have pathing issues .