That's pretty much a given in movies and games these days. We can't finish a story, oh deary me no! Everything must be a franchise, so we can never ever wrap things up.
So you ladies really think this movie is bad huh? Well that is disappointing but I will probably still see it.
<!--quoteo(post=1941313:date=Jun 3 2012, 02:41 PM:name=lolfighter)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (lolfighter @ Jun 3 2012, 02:41 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1941313"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->That's pretty much a given in movies and games these days. We can't finish a story, oh deary me no! Everything must be a franchise, so we can never ever wrap things up.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Or if you do wrap things up, it leaves more questions than provides answers.
puzlThe Old FirmJoin Date: 2003-02-26Member: 14029Retired Developer, NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Constellation
edited June 2012
I saw it on Saturday and I was disappointed. I think, as a chapter in the Alien saga it fails and it is a pity because some of the ideas in the movie are interesting and would have survived and flourished as their own series.
But fundamentally the movie tries to be too many things and fails to be good at any of them.
I thought it was ok, but as many mention, the characters weren't developed or consistent enough to really be invested in and the creature designs bothered me. The sets were wonderful and it shows they got H.R. Giger back to help with them, but they really should've gotten the crazy artist to do the new creature designs because the only ones that worked were Giger's originals (aka the <span style='color:#000000;background:#000000'>fully-suited</span> jockeys).
It seems like every new monster design in this had a 'rubber' theme: a.k.a. they all look like they're made of rubber. There's also no real sense of a life cycle or even consistency of how they work. With just the main threat; one minute we're looking at <span style='color:#000000;background:#000000'>zombies</span>, the next it's suddenly <span style='color:#000000;background:#000000'>squid fetusses and face huggers</span>. I don't know why but I've always been fussy about creature design and these tick all the wrong boxes for me :/
The movie is ... unintelligent, and it has very, very little of that creepy horror feel à la Alien and Aliens.
I'm not sure what the young fellow with rheumatism and horrible skin condition hoped to achieve by (secretely, hihi) coming along on his own trillion dollar space exploration journey. Too bad he had run out money by the time it got to recruitment, because he had to make due with for instance a cave-exploring geologists equipped with laser drones that gets himself lost in a hallway. The guy responsible for keeping in contact with the team members who have been left on their own on an uncharted and hostile planet (you know, the captain) quickly mentions something about them not being alone before he scuttles away for some on-duty love-making. Oh, and that space hooligan and/or Strogg - why was he so maniacally angry? Questions, questions...
It was a very pretty movie though. Maybe the sequel is better story-wise, and by then I might have forgotten every irritating detail in the first one. Like I've almost totally forgotten about Alien 4.
remiremedy [blu.knight]Join Date: 2003-11-18Member: 23112Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester
<!--quoteo(post=1941586:date=Jun 4 2012, 11:45 PM:name=puzl)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (puzl @ Jun 4 2012, 11:45 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1941586"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->...fundamentally the movie tries to be too many things and fails to be good at any of them.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> <!--quoteo(post=1941657:date=Jun 5 2012, 08:24 AM:name=Geminosity)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Geminosity @ Jun 5 2012, 08:24 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1941657"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->... the characters weren't developed or consistent enough to really be invested in ...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> <!--quoteo(post=1941657:date=Jun 5 2012, 08:24 AM:name=Geminosity)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Geminosity @ Jun 5 2012, 08:24 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1941657"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->... there's also no real sense of a life cycle or even consistency of how [the new monsters] work ...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> <!--quoteo(post=1942610:date=Jun 10 2012, 11:40 AM:name=Namm)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Namm @ Jun 10 2012, 11:40 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1942610"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The movie is ... unintelligent ...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
**spoilers**
This movie was a severe disappointment. There were so many great ideas but there was just no follow through. It could have been amazing. Instead it was ... forgettable.
There were so many opportunities totally squandered. One of the biggest was the story telling opportunity that they had with David, his creator, the crew, and their "makers". There should have been some parallels there for the audience to pick up on to better understand the point of the movie. David did a great job of not revealing his motives and instead slowly reveal them to the audience through his actions, but his actions were a series of data-points that were impossible to connect. He was not consistent, and so both of those opportunities were lost (I'm just assuming that they probably were trying to have that parallel in there for that reason though I didn't see any real evidence of it). They also did the #1 writer's mistake. "Show, don't tell!" The script was unable to convey the purpose of this planet, what it is, what the black stuff is, etc until one of the crew members randomly just tells it to the audience. There was no slow reveal, no show of how the person came to this realization, just (paraphrased [badly]) <span style='color:#000000;background:#000000'>"this isn't their home, this is a military installment for creating weapons of mass destruction because they realized they were too dangerous"</span>. Not to mention, the crew members seemed like amateurs and the relationship between the two mains weren't believable at all. They had no chemistry and their sex scene was arbitrary.
So many opportunities lost. I wish I could take their script, bring it to a class of screenwriters, and let them at it... I know they'd be able to do a better job.
Naam, great work pointing out a lot of those. I hadn't been able to identify exactly what bugged me about the crew (there was just too much wrong with the movie for me to be able to), but I think you nailed it. So many plot holes, inconsistencies, and unbelievable behaviors. The two that did bug me were <span style='color:#000000;background:#000000'>the captain and his first and second in command suddenly deciding to sacrifice themselves to save the human race with no hesitation or apparent concern, and the fact that David wanted to help the woman at the end (and that she accepted his help). As far as I could connect, David was trying to kill the human race. A better ending would have been her realizing this and sacrificing her last bit of energy to go destroy David and ensure that he would never make it back to earth with the black goo.</span>
Many people don't seem to get that Prometheus is not part of the Alien Saga, it just plays in the same universe. Ridley considered Blade Runner and Alien also to be part of the same universe back then, doesn't mean they have to bridge from one to another.
remiremedy [blu.knight]Join Date: 2003-11-18Member: 23112Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester
That's the thing though, this fails as a stand alone movie (as i, going into it, didn't know about the connection) and according to the other posters, fails as a prequel as well.
Sorry Kull, but that's begging the question. We <b>can</b> say that it fails as an alien movie, though in all honesty I don't think anyone in this thread has really made that complaint with any real passion so i'm not sure why you're even debating that point :P
If it wasn't made by Ridley Scott and had H.R. Giger in to help with the set then people would be calling it an aliens rip-off instead. It's got <span style='color:#000000;background:#000000'>eerily 'alien-like' creatures in it (albeit not as well designed), it's got cannisters bearing a strange resemblence to the face-hugger eggs. It's got a badly designed face hugger. It's got space jockeys. It's even got a ripley-wannabe.</span> hell the freaking title reveal and style is designed to mimic the original 'alien' title for hecksake XD
As Psyke says though, it doesn't matter: it fails as a movie in it's own right without the shadow of aliens looming over it, carved into the environment itself in effigy. The scary part is, I could easily sit down and write a considerable chunk more than what people have already covered but there's not much point, I think I've already established that I wasn't really grabbed by this movie (though I do have to make a special mention for <span style='color:#000000;background:#000000'>the two remaining survivors running AWAY from the falling ship rather than neatly running to the side. What makes it funnier is that ripley-lite has enough time to fall, scream and then slowly roll out of the way without getting crushed while samus kept running. Her death is practically natural selection at that point :P </span>
Despite all this negativity though, I actually thought the film was decent for the first half. It just kind of goes down the tubes beyond that point because that's when all the flaws coming bubbling to the surface and the inconsistencies and character stupidity start showing up everywhere in full force.
<b>edit:</b> talking of idiocy; i fail at spoiler tagging XD
<b>edit 2:</b> The following video is a construct made entirely of spoilers :P
<div align='center'><center><object width="450" height="356"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/-x1YuvUQFJ0"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/-x1YuvUQFJ0" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="450" height="356"></embed></object></center> <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-x1YuvUQFJ0" target="_blank">Red Letter Media talks about prometheus</a></div>
I just keep getting more and more annoyed by Prometheus every day. It's like something is growing inside of me.
<!--quoteo(post=1942665:date=Jun 11 2012, 06:59 AM:name=Psyke)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Psyke @ Jun 11 2012, 06:59 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1942665"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><span style='color:#000000;background:#000000'>David wanted to help the woman at the end (and that she accepted his help). As far as I could connect, David was trying to kill the human race. A better ending would have been her realizing this and sacrificing her last bit of energy to go destroy David and ensure that he would never make it back to earth with the black goo.</span><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> D. didn't want to destroy, he was just following orders, trying to rescue the guy with old mans makeup. How, I do not know. Nobody does. The same idio...person responsible for Lost and its annoying story also wrote for Prometheus. That's the explanation for everything.
NeonSpyder"Das est NTLDR?"Join Date: 2003-07-03Member: 17913Members
<!--quoteo(post=1943392:date=Jun 14 2012, 04:01 PM:name=Namm)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Namm @ Jun 14 2012, 04:01 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1943392"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->That's a funny video, and 100 % true. :)
I just keep getting more and more annoyed by Prometheus every day. It's like something is growing inside of me.
D. didn't want to destroy, he was just following orders, trying to rescue the guy with old mans makeup. How, I do not know. Nobody does. The same idio...person responsible for Lost and its annoying story also wrote for Prometheus. That's the explanation for everything.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Are you serious? The Lost guy wrote the story? It makes total godamn sense now. Wow, I understand.
Here's an <a href="http://cavalorn.livejournal.com/584135.html#cutid1" target="_blank">analysis of the film</a> that I thought made some sense out of things that seemingly did not make sense. It's a long read but pretty interesting.
remiremedy [blu.knight]Join Date: 2003-11-18Member: 23112Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester
<!--quoteo(post=1943392:date=Jun 14 2012, 12:01 PM:name=Namm)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Namm @ Jun 14 2012, 12:01 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1943392"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->D. didn't want to destroy, he was just following orders, trying to rescue the guy with old mans makeup. How, I do not know.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> That's an annoying cop-out answer that I've heard too. It cheapens the plot and implies there is no actual complexity to his character as he has no freewill. They do a lot to show that he is more than just a robot following a program. He picks that one guy to infect out of spite. That is made very clear with the characters' interaction. D. does not act like he has no free will, but he does say something to the effect of <span style='color:#000000;background:#000000'>"doesn't everyone want to destroy their parents"</span> which implies he wants to <span style='color:#000000;background:#000000'>kill Weyland and potentially the entire human race because they created him, which could be looked at as the inverse of the relationship between humans and the makers.</span>
<!--quoteo(post=1943468:date=Jun 14 2012, 05:19 PM:name=NeonSpyder)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (NeonSpyder @ Jun 14 2012, 05:19 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1943468"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Are you serious? The Lost guy wrote the story? It makes total godamn sense now. Wow, I understand.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Wow. Yeah... If this was a TV series instead of a movie I would be a lot less pissed off by how incomplete it is, and it would probably go on for 20 seasons without ever answering anything (but while making a lot of money).
<!--quoteo(post=1943469:date=Jun 14 2012, 05:28 PM:name=rantology)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (rantology @ Jun 14 2012, 05:28 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1943469"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Here's an <a href="http://cavalorn.livejournal.com/584135.html#cutid1" target="_blank">analysis of the film</a> that I thought made some sense out of things that seemingly did not make sense. It's a long read but pretty interesting.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> My problem with things like this is that they effectively excuse the writers from writing an awful script.. The movie was a bad movie. It had some great ideas behind it, and this analysis, if true and if it had actually been conveyed better, probably would have made for an awesome movie. It didn't, and it wasn't.
While Prometheus had LOTS of cheese, It carried undertones that scratched me right where I itch. Just throwing out my random thoughts after seeing the film:
DAVID is a creation, unclouded by conscience, remorse, or delusions of morality..He dared to be an Engineer of his own, re-mixing up some alien+human dna. Could this be why ASH and BISHOP are so fascinated by the xenos too? Its lifecycle that yearns to create upon destroying. Prometheus will make me watch Alien 3 and 4 with new, opened eyes. BISHOP planted eggs on the ship in the end of Aliens, he was an infiltrator android like ASH. But with luck and good programming Ripley ended up trusting him. But she never should have. And the constant chase by Weyland industries in obtaining the perfect organism/biological weapon is rooted in the creation of mankind, and is also a nice metaphor for humanity's forever greedy chase for destruction..which will ultimately lead to self-destruction. Which is what happened to the Engineers.
The cloned Ripley and DAVID8 is good in basketball ;)
I cant say there are many films I have seen which have undertones that scratches me right where I itch, but at the same time is just so silly. Gladly one outweigh the other easily.
Prometheus is not what I wished it would be but it certainly sparked some interesting ideas in my opinion. And it will make it easier to watch Alien 3 and 4.
I just read an interesting observation:
"The whole movie is about a lack of purpose. David, during his two years on the Prometheus while it traveled, developed a God complex. He realized that he was more able then his human creators, which are mortal (unlike him) and less able to do/learn like David. He watched Shaw's and everyone's dreams to learn about them. He watches Lawrence of Arabia (a movie about a man leading a rebellion against his superior officers), chooses to dress like the main character and practices his speech. David doesn't seem to follow orders (like opening the tomb door when Shaw says not to, or taking the vase back, or departing from the crew to explore for the Engineers, and not wanting to tell Vickers what her father had told him). He increasingly becomes overly confident in his superiority (even says "not too close, I hope" when Weyland says that androids are as close to being human as ever) when David gains a "soul," for what is a soul but a profound purpose of being. It satisfies him when the humans learn that their creators were nothing special, and that their existence is nothing special. He probably told the Engineer something to deliberately anger the Engineer and put the crew in harms way. It is not until his head if ripped off and he is completely helpless that he remembers his place, a creation of humans, and becomes subservient to Shaw. "
It may spark ideas in your head but those discussions you have are your own, they're not discussed effectively in the film, which is what counts. A lot of the 'explanations' for the plot holes and poor characterisation are simply fan fiction. It's a film; it should use the art of cinema to convey it's ideas.
<!--quoteo(post=1943469:date=Jun 15 2012, 03:28 AM:name=rantology)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (rantology @ Jun 15 2012, 03:28 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1943469"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Here's an <a href="http://cavalorn.livejournal.com/584135.html#cutid1" target="_blank">analysis of the film</a> that I thought made some sense out of things that seemingly did not make sense. It's a long read but pretty interesting.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well, I definitely agree it's interesting and it has some echoes of the 'indoctrination theory' that shadowed mass effect 3's ending (except in the case of the prometheus stuff I suspect he's actually correct) but ultimately all I come away from it with is that they were so busy clumsily crowbarring all this theological and thematic rubbish in that they did so at the sacrifice of making a good film :P
remiremedy [blu.knight]Join Date: 2003-11-18Member: 23112Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester
<!--quoteo(post=1943551:date=Jun 15 2012, 04:26 AM:name=peregrinus)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (peregrinus @ Jun 15 2012, 04:26 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1943551"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It may spark ideas in your head but those discussions you have are your own, they're not discussed effectively in the film, which is what counts. A lot of the 'explanations' for the plot holes and poor characterisation are simply fan fiction. It's a film; it should use the art of cinema to convey it's ideas.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> <!--quoteo(post=1943551:date=Jun 15 2012, 04:26 AM:name=peregrinus)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (peregrinus @ Jun 15 2012, 04:26 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1943551"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It may spark ideas in your head but those discussions you have are your own, they're not discussed effectively in the film, which is what counts. A lot of the 'explanations' for the plot holes and poor characterisation are simply fan fiction. It's a film; it should use the art of cinema to convey it's ideas.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> <!--quoteo(post=1943551:date=Jun 15 2012, 04:26 AM:name=peregrinus)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (peregrinus @ Jun 15 2012, 04:26 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1943551"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It may spark ideas in your head but those discussions you have are your own, they're not discussed effectively in the film, which is what counts. A lot of the 'explanations' for the plot holes and poor characterisation are simply fan fiction. It's a film; it should use the art of cinema to convey it's ideas.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Yes.
Apart from those cinema titles where you are supposed to draw your own ideas? I personally am sick of films where they hold you hand and convey their ideas with big giant sign posts. Those fan conclusions look plausable to me.
remiremedy [blu.knight]Join Date: 2003-11-18Member: 23112Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester
<!--quoteo(post=1943798:date=Jun 16 2012, 04:11 AM:name=Aldaris)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Aldaris @ Jun 16 2012, 04:11 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1943798"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Apart from those cinema titles where you are supposed to draw your own ideas? I personally am sick of films where they hold you hand and convey their ideas with big giant sign posts. Those fan conclusions look plausable to me.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> A good movie shouldn't need to hand hold to convey the big ideas, but it does need to communicate them to the audience. This is the whole show-don't-tell thing in writing. You don't want to just give it to the audience on a platter because then it doesn't have the same impact and removes the potential for alternate interpretations. The only bits that I got from this movie were told, not shown, so I'd say this movie was actually hand-holding quite a bit but completely failed at communicating anything to me otherwise. It's not left up to interpretation because there was not enough information to go on. It is just a bad movie, and this is why these "analysises" boil down to fan fiction, as peregrinus says.
Aldaris, I enjoy a good 'thinker' movie too but as far as I can see Prometheus isn't one of them.
The conclusions the fan draws are interesting but if true (which seems likely) then the message <span style='color:#000000;background:#000000'>(SPACE JESUS!)</span> hidden in the film is, to me, fairly vapid. I'm a big fan of the idea of <span style='color:#000000;background:#000000'>creation or power requiring sacrifice</span> but in the context of the movie it doesn't come across in a way I find particularly interesting or meaningful. There are plenty of films and stories that I feel cover the same theme better and make you think more. In the specific case of Prometheus, it doesn't feel like it was a theme that needed to be there nor was as integral as the movie tried to make it.
Imagine I made a story which showed a woman walking past an apple store each day on her way to and from work, during which she'd stop to look at the ipads or whatever in the window, sometimes spattered with character conversations with a friend she's with or the like. There'd be some build up of her constantly eyeing up one of the products throughout this, contrasted by chatter with friends and family showing that times are tight and she ultimately can't afford to buy that desirable item without making sacrifices; with the end of the movie being a scene of her stopped outside the door of the store holding her purse and looking in as if she's going to enter before fading to black. Would the fact that I just made up something with the idea of it being a poorly veiled representation the temptation that faced eve in the garden of eden make this a deep and meaningful film? Would it make it a better film after you found that out? I don't think so personally.
I believe that film has to stand on it's own whether it actually answers any questions or not. I don't mind if things go unanswered or bring up interesting thoughts but the film still has to have good characters and some logical consistency: E.g. you could say that the Blair witch project 2: book of shadows left lots of unanswered questions but it doesn't matter what kind of message it had in mind or what clever questions it had in there because it's an incoherent mess and possibly the single worst film I've ever witnessed.
I don't know if I stated as much but I don't think Prometheus is a 'bad' movie, I just don't think it was a particularly good movie either. Heck knows, I've seen many more worse and many more that were better too :P
remiremedy [blu.knight]Join Date: 2003-11-18Member: 23112Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester
edited June 2012
<!--quoteo(post=1943822:date=Jun 16 2012, 05:13 AM:name=Geminosity)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Geminosity @ Jun 16 2012, 05:13 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1943822"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Imagine I made a story which showed a woman walking past an apple store each day on her way to and from work, during which she'd stop to look at the ipads or whatever in the window, sometimes spattered with character conversations with a friend she's with or the like. There'd be some build up of her constantly eyeing up one of the products throughout this, contrasted by chatter with friends and family showing that times are tight and she ultimately can't afford to buy that desirable item without making sacrifices; with the end of the movie being a scene of her stopped outside the door of the store holding her purse and looking in as if she's going to enter before fading to black. Would the fact that I just made up something with the idea of it being a poorly veiled representation the temptation that faced eve in the garden of eden make this a deep and meaningful film? Would it make it a better film after you found that out? I don't think so personally.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Yet sadly, I think that would make a better movie than Prometheus. This is a great example of the "show don't tell". In Prometheus land, there would be lots of inconsistent things happening, like the person would keep going and looking in different stores at different items and never look at an ipad, and then at the end as she was walking in to get the ipad, the friend would say "you can't afford to buy that desirable item without making sacrifices". Then she'd buy it and they'd show her kid starving before the credits rolled. ...it sucks that even with me trying to make this story much worse, I still think it is more successful as a story than Prometheus.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I don't know if I stated as much but I don't think Prometheus is a 'bad' movie, I just don't think it was a particularly good movie either. Heck knows, I've seen many more worse and many more that were better too :P<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I agree, I've seen worse, and I've seen a lot better; but just because it's not the worst I've seen doesn't mean it's not bad. It fails as a movie, and the reason I'm so irritated by it is that I know it could have been great if the script had been tightened up and the themes/plot better and more consistently hinted at.
Comments
To me it didn't work in Prometheus. In a Disney style family film it's perfect.
I think if the film does well financially there will be Prometheus 2, because the ending and other parts suggest a sequel.
<span style='color:#000000;background:#000000'>Its Keek.</span>
OSTs don't always include every piece of music. If you see the film you'll hear it - reviews I've read say the score is too uplifting and doesn't fit.
<span style='color:#000000;background:#000000'>Its Keek.</span><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<a href="http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=keek" target="_blank">In Northern Ireland Keek means crap</a>
That bad huh?
It is truly terrible.
PLEASE SAY IT AIN'T TRUE!
<!--quoteo(post=1941313:date=Jun 3 2012, 02:41 PM:name=lolfighter)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (lolfighter @ Jun 3 2012, 02:41 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1941313"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->That's pretty much a given in movies and games these days. We can't finish a story, oh deary me no! Everything must be a franchise, so we can never ever wrap things up.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Or if you do wrap things up, it leaves more questions than provides answers.
But fundamentally the movie tries to be too many things and fails to be good at any of them.
and now that I know it's actually in the Aliens Universe I'm still meh
It seems like every new monster design in this had a 'rubber' theme: a.k.a. they all look like they're made of rubber. There's also no real sense of a life cycle or even consistency of how they work. With just the main threat; one minute we're looking at <span style='color:#000000;background:#000000'>zombies</span>, the next it's suddenly <span style='color:#000000;background:#000000'>squid fetusses and face huggers</span>. I don't know why but I've always been fussy about creature design and these tick all the wrong boxes for me :/
The movie is ... unintelligent, and it has very, very little of that creepy horror feel à la Alien and Aliens.
I'm not sure what the young fellow with rheumatism and horrible skin condition hoped to achieve by (secretely, hihi) coming along on his own trillion dollar space exploration journey. Too bad he had run out money by the time it got to recruitment, because he had to make due with for instance a cave-exploring geologists equipped with laser drones that gets himself lost in a hallway. The guy responsible for keeping in contact with the team members who have been left on their own on an uncharted and hostile planet (you know, the captain) quickly mentions something about them not being alone before he scuttles away for some on-duty love-making. Oh, and that space hooligan and/or Strogg - why was he so maniacally angry? Questions, questions...
It was a very pretty movie though. Maybe the sequel is better story-wise, and by then I might have forgotten every irritating detail in the first one. Like I've almost totally forgotten about Alien 4.
<!--quoteo(post=1941657:date=Jun 5 2012, 08:24 AM:name=Geminosity)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Geminosity @ Jun 5 2012, 08:24 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1941657"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->... the characters weren't developed or consistent enough to really be invested in ...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1941657:date=Jun 5 2012, 08:24 AM:name=Geminosity)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Geminosity @ Jun 5 2012, 08:24 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1941657"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->... there's also no real sense of a life cycle or even consistency of how [the new monsters] work ...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1942610:date=Jun 10 2012, 11:40 AM:name=Namm)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Namm @ Jun 10 2012, 11:40 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1942610"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The movie is ... unintelligent ...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
**spoilers**
This movie was a severe disappointment. There were so many great ideas but there was just no follow through. It could have been amazing. Instead it was ... forgettable.
There were so many opportunities totally squandered. One of the biggest was the story telling opportunity that they had with David, his creator, the crew, and their "makers". There should have been some parallels there for the audience to pick up on to better understand the point of the movie. David did a great job of not revealing his motives and instead slowly reveal them to the audience through his actions, but his actions were a series of data-points that were impossible to connect. He was not consistent, and so both of those opportunities were lost (I'm just assuming that they probably were trying to have that parallel in there for that reason though I didn't see any real evidence of it).
They also did the #1 writer's mistake. "Show, don't tell!" The script was unable to convey the purpose of this planet, what it is, what the black stuff is, etc until one of the crew members randomly just tells it to the audience. There was no slow reveal, no show of how the person came to this realization, just (paraphrased [badly]) <span style='color:#000000;background:#000000'>"this isn't their home, this is a military installment for creating weapons of mass destruction because they realized they were too dangerous"</span>. Not to mention, the crew members seemed like amateurs and the relationship between the two mains weren't believable at all. They had no chemistry and their sex scene was arbitrary.
So many opportunities lost. I wish I could take their script, bring it to a class of screenwriters, and let them at it... I know they'd be able to do a better job.
Naam, great work pointing out a lot of those. I hadn't been able to identify exactly what bugged me about the crew (there was just too much wrong with the movie for me to be able to), but I think you nailed it. So many plot holes, inconsistencies, and unbelievable behaviors. The two that did bug me were <span style='color:#000000;background:#000000'>the captain and his first and second in command suddenly deciding to sacrifice themselves to save the human race with no hesitation or apparent concern, and the fact that David wanted to help the woman at the end (and that she accepted his help). As far as I could connect, David was trying to kill the human race. A better ending would have been her realizing this and sacrificing her last bit of energy to go destroy David and ensure that he would never make it back to earth with the black goo.</span>
If it wasn't made by Ridley Scott and had H.R. Giger in to help with the set then people would be calling it an aliens rip-off instead. It's got <span style='color:#000000;background:#000000'>eerily 'alien-like' creatures in it (albeit not as well designed), it's got cannisters bearing a strange resemblence to the face-hugger eggs. It's got a badly designed face hugger. It's got space jockeys. It's even got a ripley-wannabe.</span> hell the freaking title reveal and style is designed to mimic the original 'alien' title for hecksake XD
As Psyke says though, it doesn't matter: it fails as a movie in it's own right without the shadow of aliens looming over it, carved into the environment itself in effigy. The scary part is, I could easily sit down and write a considerable chunk more than what people have already covered but there's not much point, I think I've already established that I wasn't really grabbed by this movie (though I do have to make a special mention for <span style='color:#000000;background:#000000'>the two remaining survivors running AWAY from the falling ship rather than neatly running to the side. What makes it funnier is that ripley-lite has enough time to fall, scream and then slowly roll out of the way without getting crushed while samus kept running. Her death is practically natural selection at that point :P </span>
Despite all this negativity though, I actually thought the film was decent for the first half. It just kind of goes down the tubes beyond that point because that's when all the flaws coming bubbling to the surface and the inconsistencies and character stupidity start showing up everywhere in full force.
<b>edit:</b> talking of idiocy; i fail at spoiler tagging XD
<b>edit 2:</b> The following video is a construct made entirely of spoilers :P
<div align='center'><center><object width="450" height="356"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/-x1YuvUQFJ0"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/-x1YuvUQFJ0" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="450" height="356"></embed></object></center>
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-x1YuvUQFJ0" target="_blank">Red Letter Media talks about prometheus</a></div>
I just keep getting more and more annoyed by Prometheus every day. It's like something is growing inside of me.
<!--quoteo(post=1942665:date=Jun 11 2012, 06:59 AM:name=Psyke)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Psyke @ Jun 11 2012, 06:59 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1942665"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><span style='color:#000000;background:#000000'>David wanted to help the woman at the end (and that she accepted his help). As far as I could connect, David was trying to kill the human race. A better ending would have been her realizing this and sacrificing her last bit of energy to go destroy David and ensure that he would never make it back to earth with the black goo.</span><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
D. didn't want to destroy, he was just following orders, trying to rescue the guy with old mans makeup. How, I do not know. Nobody does. The same idio...person responsible for Lost and its annoying story also wrote for Prometheus. That's the explanation for everything.
I just keep getting more and more annoyed by Prometheus every day. It's like something is growing inside of me.
D. didn't want to destroy, he was just following orders, trying to rescue the guy with old mans makeup. How, I do not know. Nobody does. The same idio...person responsible for Lost and its annoying story also wrote for Prometheus. That's the explanation for everything.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Are you serious? The Lost guy wrote the story? It makes total godamn sense now. Wow, I understand.
That's an annoying cop-out answer that I've heard too. It cheapens the plot and implies there is no actual complexity to his character as he has no freewill. They do a lot to show that he is more than just a robot following a program. He picks that one guy to infect out of spite. That is made very clear with the characters' interaction. D. does not act like he has no free will, but he does say something to the effect of <span style='color:#000000;background:#000000'>"doesn't everyone want to destroy their parents"</span> which implies he wants to <span style='color:#000000;background:#000000'>kill Weyland and potentially the entire human race because they created him, which could be looked at as the inverse of the relationship between humans and the makers.</span>
<!--quoteo(post=1943468:date=Jun 14 2012, 05:19 PM:name=NeonSpyder)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (NeonSpyder @ Jun 14 2012, 05:19 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1943468"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Are you serious? The Lost guy wrote the story? It makes total godamn sense now. Wow, I understand.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Wow. Yeah... If this was a TV series instead of a movie I would be a lot less pissed off by how incomplete it is, and it would probably go on for 20 seasons without ever answering anything (but while making a lot of money).
<!--quoteo(post=1943469:date=Jun 14 2012, 05:28 PM:name=rantology)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (rantology @ Jun 14 2012, 05:28 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1943469"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Here's an <a href="http://cavalorn.livejournal.com/584135.html#cutid1" target="_blank">analysis of the film</a> that I thought made some sense out of things that seemingly did not make sense. It's a long read but pretty interesting.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
My problem with things like this is that they effectively excuse the writers from writing an awful script.. The movie was a bad movie. It had some great ideas behind it, and this analysis, if true and if it had actually been conveyed better, probably would have made for an awesome movie. It didn't, and it wasn't.
DAVID is a creation, unclouded by conscience, remorse, or delusions of morality..He dared to be an Engineer of his own, re-mixing up some alien+human dna. Could this be why ASH and BISHOP are so fascinated by the xenos too? Its lifecycle that yearns to create upon destroying.
Prometheus will make me watch Alien 3 and 4 with new, opened eyes. BISHOP planted eggs on the ship in the end of Aliens, he was an infiltrator android like ASH. But with luck and good programming Ripley ended up trusting him. But she never should have.
And the constant chase by Weyland industries in obtaining the perfect organism/biological weapon is rooted in the creation of mankind, and is also a nice metaphor for humanity's forever greedy chase for destruction..which will ultimately lead to self-destruction. Which is what happened to the Engineers.
The cloned Ripley and DAVID8 is good in basketball ;)
I cant say there are many films I have seen which have undertones that scratches me right where I itch, but at the same time is just so silly. Gladly one outweigh the other easily.
Prometheus is not what I wished it would be but it certainly sparked some interesting ideas in my opinion. And it will make it easier to watch Alien 3 and 4.
I just read an interesting observation:
"The whole movie is about a lack of purpose. David, during his two years on the Prometheus while it traveled, developed a God complex. He realized that he was more able then his human creators, which are mortal (unlike him) and less able to do/learn like David. He watched Shaw's and everyone's dreams to learn about them. He watches Lawrence of Arabia (a movie about a man leading a rebellion against his superior officers), chooses to dress like the main character and practices his speech. David doesn't seem to follow orders (like opening the tomb door when Shaw says not to, or taking the vase back, or departing from the crew to explore for the Engineers, and not wanting to tell Vickers what her father had told him). He increasingly becomes overly confident in his superiority (even says "not too close, I hope" when Weyland says that androids are as close to being human as ever) when David gains a "soul," for what is a soul but a profound purpose of being. It satisfies him when the humans learn that their creators were nothing special, and that their existence is nothing special. He probably told the Engineer something to deliberately anger the Engineer and put the crew in harms way. It is not until his head if ripped off and he is completely helpless that he remembers his place, a creation of humans, and becomes subservient to Shaw. "
:clap:
Well, I definitely agree it's interesting and it has some echoes of the 'indoctrination theory' that shadowed mass effect 3's ending (except in the case of the prometheus stuff I suspect he's actually correct) but ultimately all I come away from it with is that they were so busy clumsily crowbarring all this theological and thematic rubbish in that they did so at the sacrifice of making a good film :P
<!--quoteo(post=1943551:date=Jun 15 2012, 04:26 AM:name=peregrinus)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (peregrinus @ Jun 15 2012, 04:26 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1943551"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It may spark ideas in your head but those discussions you have are your own, they're not discussed effectively in the film, which is what counts. A lot of the 'explanations' for the plot holes and poor characterisation are simply fan fiction. It's a film; it should use the art of cinema to convey it's ideas.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1943551:date=Jun 15 2012, 04:26 AM:name=peregrinus)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (peregrinus @ Jun 15 2012, 04:26 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1943551"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It may spark ideas in your head but those discussions you have are your own, they're not discussed effectively in the film, which is what counts. A lot of the 'explanations' for the plot holes and poor characterisation are simply fan fiction. It's a film; it should use the art of cinema to convey it's ideas.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes.
A good movie shouldn't need to hand hold to convey the big ideas, but it does need to communicate them to the audience. This is the whole show-don't-tell thing in writing. You don't want to just give it to the audience on a platter because then it doesn't have the same impact and removes the potential for alternate interpretations.
The only bits that I got from this movie were told, not shown, so I'd say this movie was actually hand-holding quite a bit but completely failed at communicating anything to me otherwise. It's not left up to interpretation because there was not enough information to go on. It is just a bad movie, and this is why these "analysises" boil down to fan fiction, as peregrinus says.
The conclusions the fan draws are interesting but if true (which seems likely) then the message <span style='color:#000000;background:#000000'>(SPACE JESUS!)</span> hidden in the film is, to me, fairly vapid. I'm a big fan of the idea of <span style='color:#000000;background:#000000'>creation or power requiring sacrifice</span> but in the context of the movie it doesn't come across in a way I find particularly interesting or meaningful. There are plenty of films and stories that I feel cover the same theme better and make you think more. In the specific case of Prometheus, it doesn't feel like it was a theme that needed to be there nor was as integral as the movie tried to make it.
Imagine I made a story which showed a woman walking past an apple store each day on her way to and from work, during which she'd stop to look at the ipads or whatever in the window, sometimes spattered with character conversations with a friend she's with or the like. There'd be some build up of her constantly eyeing up one of the products throughout this, contrasted by chatter with friends and family showing that times are tight and she ultimately can't afford to buy that desirable item without making sacrifices; with the end of the movie being a scene of her stopped outside the door of the store holding her purse and looking in as if she's going to enter before fading to black. Would the fact that I just made up something with the idea of it being a poorly veiled representation the temptation that faced eve in the garden of eden make this a deep and meaningful film? Would it make it a better film after you found that out? I don't think so personally.
I believe that film has to stand on it's own whether it actually answers any questions or not. I don't mind if things go unanswered or bring up interesting thoughts but the film still has to have good characters and some logical consistency: E.g. you could say that the Blair witch project 2: book of shadows left lots of unanswered questions but it doesn't matter what kind of message it had in mind or what clever questions it had in there because it's an incoherent mess and possibly the single worst film I've ever witnessed.
I don't know if I stated as much but I don't think Prometheus is a 'bad' movie, I just don't think it was a particularly good movie either. Heck knows, I've seen many more worse and many more that were better too :P
Yet sadly, I think that would make a better movie than Prometheus. This is a great example of the "show don't tell".
In Prometheus land, there would be lots of inconsistent things happening, like the person would keep going and looking in different stores at different items and never look at an ipad, and then at the end as she was walking in to get the ipad, the friend would say "you can't afford to buy that desirable item without making sacrifices". Then she'd buy it and they'd show her kid starving before the credits rolled. ...it sucks that even with me trying to make this story much worse, I still think it is more successful as a story than Prometheus.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I don't know if I stated as much but I don't think Prometheus is a 'bad' movie, I just don't think it was a particularly good movie either. Heck knows, I've seen many more worse and many more that were better too :P<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I agree, I've seen worse, and I've seen a lot better; but just because it's not the worst I've seen doesn't mean it's not bad. It fails as a movie, and the reason I'm so irritated by it is that I know it could have been great if the script had been tightened up and the themes/plot better and more consistently hinted at.