Soul_RiderMod BeanJoin Date: 2004-06-19Member: 29388Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
Looking great.
I know it's your first map, but next time, you want to test earlier in the design process, it's easier to live with deleting a simple room than it is a fully textured room :)
I know it's your first map, but next time, you want to test earlier in the design process, it's easier to live with deleting a simple room than it is a fully textured room :)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Thanks for the advice Soul. With this map, I was just sorta messing around, seeing what was possible with Spark and learning stuff - never thought about releasing it until I got lots of rooms done, and then I thought "hmmm, maybe I can just finish it and see how it goes." I'm going to put it out, and hope to learn from the suggestions and criticisms people put up so I can improve my skills. If the map is a complete disaster, then I will pack bags and stick to gaming! :P
Vladimir Van VodkaSexy BeastJoin Date: 2010-07-30Member: 73364Members, Reinforced - Shadow
<!--quoteo(post=1898657:date=Feb 1 2012, 10:27 PM:name=zombiehellmonkey)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (zombiehellmonkey @ Feb 1 2012, 10:27 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1898657"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Thanks for the advice Soul. With this map, I was just sorta messing around, seeing what was possible with Spark and learning stuff - never thought about releasing it until I got lots of rooms done, and then I thought "hmmm, maybe I can just finish it and see how it goes." I'm going to put it out, and hope to learn from the suggestions and criticisms people put up so I can improve my skills. If the map is a complete disaster, then I will pack bags and stick to gaming! :P<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
don't quit, I can see much talent from this map, the layout and architecture seems imaginative (or random :P) but still realistic, each room in the screenshots are unique to the rest and from what I've seen you are very much capable of creating atmospheric and moody settings.
once this is done, if you actually deem it a failure, <i>I wish for you to make another map</i>, create the layout on grid paper, mentally visualize what you want to create, then with your vague guidelines replicate it to the best you can in the editor (with grayboxes, or developer textures w/e) get everything working with the map entities in place and basic lighting, gameplay test it, refine the shapes and lighting to balance it and get desired effects, gameplay test it, repeat.
once the gameplay is nailed down to the desired effect, start texturing and adding the details and atmosphere you have envisioned. A creative person will find props and imagery to fit the layout you have created while still keeping it realistic.
after that you gameplay test it again, adjust, gameplay test, repeat.
Soul_RiderMod BeanJoin Date: 2004-06-19Member: 29388Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
<!--quoteo(post=1898657:date=Feb 1 2012, 07:57 PM:name=zombiehellmonkey)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (zombiehellmonkey @ Feb 1 2012, 07:57 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1898657"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Thanks for the advice Soul. With this map, I was just sorta messing around, seeing what was possible with Spark and learning stuff - never thought about releasing it until I got lots of rooms done, and then I thought "hmmm, maybe I can just finish it and see how it goes." I'm going to put it out, and hope to learn from the suggestions and criticisms people put up so I can improve my skills. If the map is a complete disaster, then I will pack bags and stick to gaming! :P<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
For a first map, absolute disaster should be your expectation level, anything else is a bonus.
I've been mapping on and off now since I got into it because of NS1 in 2004. All I can say, is now my maps look a lot better than they've ever done geometrically, but I still can't figure out textures or lighting :)
My first ever map, an attempt at a co_ map if I remember correctly, was awful, yours is far from it. You have a great eye for the layout, and your maps will get more geometrically interesting as you develop.
zombiehellmonkeyJoin Date: 2007-08-31Member: 62093Members, Squad Five Blue
Ns2_Kleos alpha is now available for <a href="http://www.duplexgaming.co.uk/downloads/maps/67/ns2_kleos/" target="_blank"><b>download</b> at Duplex Gaming</a> !
Soul_RiderMod BeanJoin Date: 2004-06-19Member: 29388Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
edited February 2012
Hey Zombie :)
I've had a very quick run around and I have these points to make on improvements. First I would like to say, as I am suggesting a lot of improvements, you may feel that I am being down on the map, I'm not, but it does have a lot of issues that need addressing.
This is my honest opinion of changes you need to make to this map following the short run around. I'll go into more detail when I have a bit more time:
I spawned in distribution, and saw this distance issue straight away:
Every other roof is flat :P Need more geometrical variation on the roof and the floor. I noticed you have lipped a few ramps etc, but you really need more raised edges, just a height of 2 units to make the floor seem less flat.
Also under that walkway when approaching from the right, as that picture is looking, the marines get caught walking under the outer parts of that bridge. Going left to right they pass under ok, but going right to left they catch, check overlapping geometry or invisible faces :)
The biggest problem with this map is that entrances and exits to rooms are opposite each other. In NS maps an ideal scenario would suggest every entrance and exit to be placed offset, so there are no straight through views :)
I like the concept, but it is a very beautiful CS map :) By that I mean it's gameplay design is more intended for AWP's than skulk bites :)
Shift the door alignments, sort the lights and then get it game tested. The geometry lips etc will be the last thing you do after the gameplay is tested thoroughly. :)
It's an amazing attempt for a first map. Now the real work for the mapper begins. Taking your initial design and hacking it so it works :) This is where the real fun begins on the journey.
Hope the feedback helps and I'm looking forward to updated versions of this map.
Other than those issues, I love the elevation changes, nice ideas, I think it's a decent map, with the potential to be a very good map. There are things like texture issues, but I'll not bother talking about those, as they don't need to be addressed until the gameplay is sorted :)
Keep going man, excellent first attempt. :)
Also those bottom 2 spawns, aliens have a route to MS that is almost half the distance of the marine route to the alien start. This means aliens will cc rush into that and the marines can't even get out to the hive to rush back. Plus the aliens are faster :) If those 2 spawns come up I would estimate an alien win about 100% of the time :)
Soul_RiderMod BeanJoin Date: 2004-06-19Member: 29388Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
edited February 2012
Here's a quick example of some changes you can make to reduce some of your longer hallways. There are more that need fixing, but I'm sure you can work out something for them :)
Also you can pull the res at what was double forward onto the path, and make the path go to the left of the res node, then turn right to go back onto the path it is currently on. Essentially there are a number of changes you can make without too much work.
zombiehellmonkeyJoin Date: 2007-08-31Member: 62093Members, Squad Five Blue
Hey Soul, thanks for the awesome advice and encouragement! Really appreciate that you took the time to make screenshots to point out problem areas. It shouldn't be too hard to stagger some of the room openings so there aren't any long straight through views, should also help increase the travel distance at the same time for the routes.
Soul_RiderMod BeanJoin Date: 2004-06-19Member: 29388Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
edited February 2012
No Worries, Oh and your locations are not working properly, I had to check the room names on the minimap, where they are working, or the power node, for some reason the name of the room didn't appear on the HUD.
zombiehellmonkeyJoin Date: 2007-08-31Member: 62093Members, Squad Five Blue
<!--quoteo(post=1898858:date=Feb 2 2012, 11:57 AM:name=Soul_Rider)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Soul_Rider @ Feb 2 2012, 11:57 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1898858"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->No Worries, Oh and your locations are not working properly, I had to check the room names on the minimap, where they are working, or the power node, for some reason the name of the room didn't appear on the HUD.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The location thing is something that I have no idea how to fix - I'm pretty sure that I followed all the instructions properly to set it up.
<!--quoteo(post=1898858:date=Feb 2 2012, 04:57 PM:name=Soul_Rider)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Soul_Rider @ Feb 2 2012, 04:57 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1898858"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->No Worries, Oh and your locations are not working properly, I had to check the room names on the minimap, where they are working, or the power node, for some reason the name of the room didn't appear on the HUD.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Sounds like the game didn't start, type cheats 1 in console and the game should start, that makes the locations work.
swalkSay hello to my little friend.Join Date: 2011-01-20Member: 78384Members, Squad Five Blue
edited February 2012
Just took a walk around your map, as previously stated there are some very large lines of sight you need to adress. Also, your starting locations could be set up alot better, to get the game flow right. I would suggest: Marine starts in Distrubution or Engineering Alien starts in Cargo/Storage/Refinery Remove Control Room tech point Place resource point in Rotunda
Evil_bOb1Join Date: 2002-07-13Member: 938Members, Squad Five Blue
I love the feel of this map. It is really like you are in a giant complex :D
Some spaces could be better defined. Think also about the scale and proportions of the spaces you create. In a big space you need to have elements at the player's scale to help them read it. It also effects the feel of movement. For example the room up north with the overhanging techpoint doesn't have scale reference so it feels as if movement is slow. To give you an example in turtle, the marine start took me a while to set the verticals and horizontals feel right. Most of the props in that room are there to give the player a sense of the room's scale and his scale in it, especially the big crate and the railings, without them the room feels very different. So you can make movement in a big space feel quick, because the player knows he is moving in a big room. Without a scale reference, and because this is virtual perspective, sometimes the player doesn't really know how big the space he is in is and it confuses the impression of movement which is perceived by the relative movement of what is around him.
A good way to check all this is to use a scalemarine. Place the marine model prop in your rooms and look at the relationship. It might seem as if the scalemarine is pretty small, which is normal, you have to account the fact that there will be several people at the same time in a given space, so also check in-game. Also when you play there will be other players, so if the environment doesn't reflect the scale of the marine then it looks weird. But I haven't played your map with others so I don't know if it occurs in it.
Other than that I find it is a very interesting map :D
zombiehellmonkeyJoin Date: 2007-08-31Member: 62093Members, Squad Five Blue
Thanks for all the suggestions and criticisms everyone, I'll be taking all of your advice into consideration but I won't be making any changes until the map has been tested at least a few times in some realtime gameplay scenarios.
Thanks once again, and keep the feedback coming :)
Soul_RiderMod BeanJoin Date: 2004-06-19Member: 29388Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
<!--quoteo(post=1899049:date=Feb 3 2012, 03:14 AM:name=zombiehellmonkey)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (zombiehellmonkey @ Feb 3 2012, 03:14 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1899049"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Thanks for all the suggestions and criticisms everyone, I'll be taking all of your advice into consideration but I won't be making any changes until the map has been tested at least a few times in some realtime gameplay scenarios.
Thanks once again, and keep the feedback coming :)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
With the lighting issues and obvious long hallway issues people will look at the map but they are unlikely to play it. You could try to organise some specific testing sessions, that would be your best shot, or get the ENSL to use it in gathers, but I think they would want you to address those issues before they picked it up, although I'm sure they can confirm.
Just drop a line to swalk and find out if they can test it in gathers.
swalkSay hello to my little friend.Join Date: 2011-01-20Member: 78384Members, Squad Five Blue
edited February 2012
<!--quoteo(post=1900871:date=Feb 8 2012, 06:02 AM:name=Soul_Rider)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Soul_Rider @ Feb 8 2012, 06:02 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1900871"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->With the lighting issues and obvious long hallway issues people will look at the map but they are unlikely to play it. You could try to organise some specific testing sessions, that would be your best shot, or get the ENSL to use it in gathers, but I think they would want you to address those issues before they picked it up, although I'm sure they can confirm.
Just drop a line to swalk and find out if they can test it in gathers.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Very true, those will be the first issues the players will come and tell you about. You will get better feedback if those issues are already adressed :) Also, I believe the drifter not being able to go up the ramp in one of the tech point rooms(cant remember the name right now), can have something to do with the ramp being tilted too much for the pathing? Maybe lower the height of the res point, and thereby lower the degree of the ramp? Might work? But then again, I don't know :P
zombiehellmonkeyJoin Date: 2007-08-31Member: 62093Members, Squad Five Blue
<b>v 2.0 Alpha is now available.</b>
Hey all, thanks for all your suggestions, I've taken Soul's advice and made all the changes to the lights and corridors (well, except one corridor because I might just get rid of it altogether and put some rooms into its place). I also adjusted all the lights so they don't have any atmospheric at all to blind people.
I thought Swalk's idea for the spawns was really good, so now they are adjusted in that way. But I thought adding a resource node in Rotunda would be putting too many resource nodes too close together. Temporarily I moved the troublesome res node in the room you mentioned because of pathing - I just moved it closer to the hive.
Just some technical issues, the powerpoint in Rotunda doesn't appear correctly oriented in game although it is set right in the editor, just ignore it.
The download is at the usual address ... just go here <a href="http://www.duplexgaming.co.uk/downloads/maps/67/ns2_kleos/" target="_blank">http://www.duplexgaming.co.uk/downloads/maps/67/ns2_kleos/</a>
Keep the great suggestions coming! I will keep working on this map.
You still have a couple of lights that are too bright, not necessarily blinding, but no single light source would realistically give off that much light :
What makes it worse is when you look in there it looks like an empty elevator shaft, with no source for the light! Look to use 2 or 3 dimmer lights in areas rather than 1 bright light and try and give them a source when they are especially noticable, it really breaks the immersion otherwise. A quick tip, when you make white lights, don't use 255,255,255. Try something from 240-250 on each of the colours, just to give it not such a harsh white.
I am really intrigued to see how engineering will play out. Initially it looks like a marine biased location, but with the speed at which the onos can get up that ladder, lol, it's almost as fast as fade blink :) I really hope that room works as a tech point, but I get the feeling it may turn out to be very marine biased.
Really liking this, fix that wall issue, and you have a map ready for testing. Change that single bright light to 3 dimmer lights, and look at one or two others, it's not the atmospherics, just too much intensity and range from a single light source. I want to play it! Jet pack movement is interesting, some corridors really negate height, but allow really fast movement, will present a lot more interesting JP battles. Post details of any games or servers using this and I'll be there to test :)
-----EDIT-----
Don't judge my screenshots as quality indications of the map, I play NS2 at ridiculously awful settings, this is a very pretty map :)
Also I am loving some of the custom models you have in there, can I use some? If they are not custom, I really need to spend more time browsing the models :)
There is a lot of geometry coming out of the top of the map which allows the Kharaa to cyst on top of, bypassing many walls and levels of elevation and making parts of the chain impervious to marine severing squads, these places are all over the map. Might want to look into that :).
I really like the look of a lot of your room designs though, keep up the good work.
Soul_RiderMod BeanJoin Date: 2004-06-19Member: 29388Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
<!--quoteo(post=1902133:date=Feb 11 2012, 04:26 PM:name=zombiehellmonkey)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (zombiehellmonkey @ Feb 11 2012, 04:26 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1902133"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Thanks Soul for spotting the stray geometry, and your advice has been really great, I must remember to credit you for all your help on this map.
Arkanti, I will look into that, thanks for the good tip. I haven't gorged for ages, so I'm out of touch with how the current cyst system works.
Unfortunately I won't be able to make the fixes until next week as I'm not at home this weekend. I'll keep you updated when I'm done.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No worries about that. I think Arkanti means as Alien comm. Jump in the comm chair and try and cyst around your map, you'll find your able to place cysts where you really don't want them to go :)
<!--fonto:Impact--><span style="font-family:Impact"><!--/fonto--><!--sizeo:6--><span style="font-size:24pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo--><!--coloro:#00BFFF--><span style="color:#00BFFF"><!--/coloro-->ns2_Kleos v.3.0a<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--><!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec--><!--fontc--></span><!--/fontc--> download at <a href="http://www.duplexgaming.co.uk/downloads/maps/67/ns2_kleos/" target="_blank">http://www.duplexgaming.co.uk/downloads/maps/67/ns2_kleos/</a>
It was more work than expected, but I managed to work quite fast as it was more tedious rather than creative work. Probably still a lot of problem areas that I've missed, but the comm view generally looks much clearer and cleaner than v.2.0 update, and I've gotten rid of all blinding lights. Phew. Keep the feedback coming, I really appreciate it - I expect there is still plenty of work to be done on this map, hopefully you can playtest it properly now.
<b>Changelog:</b>
<i>removed stray geometry blocking path.
removed areas where commander could plant cysts outside of playable space.
Just watched the first game, my first impression was "holy ###### this is foggy!" and my second one "holy ###### this is so dark!". Otherwise it looks nice :)
zombiehellmonkeyJoin Date: 2007-08-31Member: 62093Members, Squad Five Blue
<!--quoteo(post=1902776:date=Feb 13 2012, 07:06 PM:name=Yuuki)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Yuuki @ Feb 13 2012, 07:06 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1902776"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Just watched the first game, my first impression was "holy ###### this is foggy!" and my second one "holy ###### this is so dark!". Otherwise it looks nice :)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If people find it too dark, I can start to make it brighter, but I didn't put in any fog effects on the level, and removed all the atmospherics on the lighting. Can't do anything about the fog, sorry :(
Scrajim, thanks very much for posting the gather videos, will really help me assess the problems and make larger changes to the map instead of just relying on speculation. If other people have gather videos, I would appreciate them too. I will also try to get in on gathers as the map gets more popular.
zombiehellmonkeyJoin Date: 2007-08-31Member: 62093Members, Squad Five Blue
<!--quoteo(post=1902935:date=Feb 14 2012, 05:18 AM:name=Yuuki)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Yuuki @ Feb 14 2012, 05:18 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1902935"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Heavy fog is on by default, to remove it you need to put a fog control and to add several zero to the "range" (or something like it).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Cool thanks for the tip Yuuki, I will look into it, and I will make areas of the map brighter.
Comments
I know it's your first map, but next time, you want to test earlier in the design process, it's easier to live with deleting a simple room than it is a fully textured room :)
I know it's your first map, but next time, you want to test earlier in the design process, it's easier to live with deleting a simple room than it is a fully textured room :)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Thanks for the advice Soul. With this map, I was just sorta messing around, seeing what was possible with Spark and learning stuff - never thought about releasing it until I got lots of rooms done, and then I thought "hmmm, maybe I can just finish it and see how it goes." I'm going to put it out, and hope to learn from the suggestions and criticisms people put up so I can improve my skills. If the map is a complete disaster, then I will pack bags and stick to gaming! :P
don't quit, I can see much talent from this map, the layout and architecture seems imaginative (or random :P) but still realistic, each room in the screenshots are unique to the rest and from what I've seen you are very much capable of creating atmospheric and moody settings.
once this is done, if you actually deem it a failure, <i>I wish for you to make another map</i>, create the layout on grid paper, mentally visualize what you want to create, then with your vague guidelines replicate it to the best you can in the editor (with grayboxes, or developer textures w/e) get everything working with the map entities in place and basic lighting, gameplay test it, refine the shapes and lighting to balance it and get desired effects, gameplay test it, repeat.
once the gameplay is nailed down to the desired effect, start texturing and adding the details and atmosphere you have envisioned. A creative person will find props and imagery to fit the layout you have created while still keeping it realistic.
after that you gameplay test it again, adjust, gameplay test, repeat.
*BAM*
beta build for public consumption
YUM.
For a first map, absolute disaster should be your expectation level, anything else is a bonus.
I've been mapping on and off now since I got into it because of NS1 in 2004. All I can say, is now my maps look a lot better than they've ever done geometrically, but I still can't figure out textures or lighting :)
My first ever map, an attempt at a co_ map if I remember correctly, was awful, yours is far from it. You have a great eye for the layout, and your maps will get more geometrically interesting as you develop.
Now just release it already :)
<a href="http://www.duplexgaming.co.uk/downloads/maps/67/ns2_kleos/" target="_blank">http://www.duplexgaming.co.uk/downloads/maps/67/ns2_kleos/</a>
updated map 02/02/2012
<img src="http://img834.imageshack.us/img834/9316/ns2kleosmap02feb12.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
Appreciate any feedback to help improve the map!
I've had a very quick run around and I have these points to make on improvements. First I would like to say, as I am suggesting a lot of improvements, you may feel that I am being down on the map, I'm not, but it does have a lot of issues that need addressing.
This is my honest opinion of changes you need to make to this map following the short run around. I'll go into more detail when I have a bit more time:
I spawned in distribution, and saw this distance issue straight away:
<img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v260/Soulrefuge/Kleos-Length1.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
This has to be broken up, you cannot have straight lines that long, aliens will die before they get close.
Same goes for these:
<img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v260/Soulrefuge/Kleos-Length2.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v260/Soulrefuge/Kleos-Length3.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
You just cannot have straight line of sight like that in NS.
Lights that literally blinded me. I couldn't see a thing:
<img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v260/Soulrefuge/Kleos-BlindLight1.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v260/Soulrefuge/Kleos-BlindLight2.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v260/Soulrefuge/Kleos-BlindLight3.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v260/Soulrefuge/Kleos-BlindLight4.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
Fake Route on the Minimap:
<img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v260/Soulrefuge/Kleos-FakeRoute1.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
Make sure you remove those pieces of geometry when you create the minimap, it's very confusing :)
Above the walkway you have a nice geometrical roof:
<img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v260/Soulrefuge/Kleos-GeoRoof1.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
Every other roof is flat :P Need more geometrical variation on the roof and the floor. I noticed you have lipped a few ramps etc, but you really need more raised edges, just a height of 2 units to make the floor seem less flat.
Also under that walkway when approaching from the right, as that picture is looking, the marines get caught walking under the outer parts of that bridge. Going left to right they pass under ok, but going right to left they catch, check overlapping geometry or invisible faces :)
The biggest problem with this map is that entrances and exits to rooms are opposite each other. In NS maps an ideal scenario would suggest every entrance and exit to be placed offset, so there are no straight through views :)
I like the concept, but it is a very beautiful CS map :) By that I mean it's gameplay design is more intended for AWP's than skulk bites :)
Shift the door alignments, sort the lights and then get it game tested. The geometry lips etc will be the last thing you do after the gameplay is tested thoroughly. :)
It's an amazing attempt for a first map. Now the real work for the mapper begins. Taking your initial design and hacking it so it works :) This is where the real fun begins on the journey.
Hope the feedback helps and I'm looking forward to updated versions of this map.
Other than those issues, I love the elevation changes, nice ideas, I think it's a decent map, with the potential to be a very good map. There are things like texture issues, but I'll not bother talking about those, as they don't need to be addressed until the gameplay is sorted :)
Keep going man, excellent first attempt. :)
Also those bottom 2 spawns, aliens have a route to MS that is almost half the distance of the marine route to the alien start. This means aliens will cc rush into that and the marines can't even get out to the hive to rush back. Plus the aliens are faster :) If those 2 spawns come up I would estimate an alien win about 100% of the time :)
<img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v260/Soulrefuge/ns2kleosmap02feb12edit.png" border="0" class="linked-image" />
Also you can pull the res at what was double forward onto the path, and make the path go to the left of the res node, then turn right to go back onto the path it is currently on. Essentially there are a number of changes you can make without too much work.
The location thing is something that I have no idea how to fix - I'm pretty sure that I followed all the instructions properly to set it up.
Sounds like the game didn't start, type cheats 1 in console and the game should start, that makes the locations work.
Also, your starting locations could be set up alot better, to get the game flow right.
I would suggest:
Marine starts in Distrubution or Engineering
Alien starts in Cargo/Storage/Refinery
Remove Control Room tech point
Place resource point in Rotunda
Some spaces could be better defined. Think also about the scale and proportions of the spaces you create. In a big space you need to have elements at the player's scale to help them read it. It also effects the feel of movement. For example the room up north with the overhanging techpoint doesn't have scale reference so it feels as if movement is slow. To give you an example in turtle, the marine start took me a while to set the verticals and horizontals feel right. Most of the props in that room are there to give the player a sense of the room's scale and his scale in it, especially the big crate and the railings, without them the room feels very different. So you can make movement in a big space feel quick, because the player knows he is moving in a big room. Without a scale reference, and because this is virtual perspective, sometimes the player doesn't really know how big the space he is in is and it confuses the impression of movement which is perceived by the relative movement of what is around him.
A good way to check all this is to use a scalemarine. Place the marine model prop in your rooms and look at the relationship. It might seem as if the scalemarine is pretty small, which is normal, you have to account the fact that there will be several people at the same time in a given space, so also check in-game. Also when you play there will be other players, so if the environment doesn't reflect the scale of the marine then it looks weird. But I haven't played your map with others so I don't know if it occurs in it.
Other than that I find it is a very interesting map :D
Thanks once again, and keep the feedback coming :)
Thanks once again, and keep the feedback coming :)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
With the lighting issues and obvious long hallway issues people will look at the map but they are unlikely to play it. You could try to organise some specific testing sessions, that would be your best shot, or get the ENSL to use it in gathers, but I think they would want you to address those issues before they picked it up, although I'm sure they can confirm.
Just drop a line to swalk and find out if they can test it in gathers.
Just drop a line to swalk and find out if they can test it in gathers.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Very true, those will be the first issues the players will come and tell you about.
You will get better feedback if those issues are already adressed :)
Also, I believe the drifter not being able to go up the ramp in one of the tech point rooms(cant remember the name right now), can have something to do with the ramp being tilted too much for the pathing?
Maybe lower the height of the res point, and thereby lower the degree of the ramp? Might work?
But then again, I don't know :P
Hey all, thanks for all your suggestions, I've taken Soul's advice and made all the changes to the lights and corridors (well, except one corridor because I might just get rid of it altogether and put some rooms into its place). I also adjusted all the lights so they don't have any atmospheric at all to blind people.
I thought Swalk's idea for the spawns was really good, so now they are adjusted in that way. But I thought adding a resource node in Rotunda would be putting too many resource nodes too close together. Temporarily I moved the troublesome res node in the room you mentioned because of pathing - I just moved it closer to the hive.
Just some technical issues, the powerpoint in Rotunda doesn't appear correctly oriented in game although it is set right in the editor, just ignore it.
The download is at the usual address ... just go here <a href="http://www.duplexgaming.co.uk/downloads/maps/67/ns2_kleos/" target="_blank">http://www.duplexgaming.co.uk/downloads/maps/67/ns2_kleos/</a>
Keep the great suggestions coming! I will keep working on this map.
Looks fine from this side, but I can't pass through:
<img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v260/Soulrefuge/2012-02-10_00002.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
Good job I had a Jetpack :) When I got over:
<img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v260/Soulrefuge/2012-02-10_00003.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
The rest are just general comments:
You still have a couple of lights that are too bright, not necessarily blinding, but no single light source would realistically give off that much light :
<img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v260/Soulrefuge/2012-02-10_00001.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
What makes it worse is when you look in there it looks like an empty elevator shaft, with no source for the light! Look to use 2 or 3 dimmer lights in areas rather than 1 bright light and try and give them a source when they are especially noticable, it really breaks the immersion otherwise. A quick tip, when you make white lights, don't use 255,255,255. Try something from 240-250 on each of the colours, just to give it not such a harsh white.
I am really intrigued to see how engineering will play out. Initially it looks like a marine biased location, but with the speed at which the onos can get up that ladder, lol, it's almost as fast as fade blink :) I really hope that room works as a tech point, but I get the feeling it may turn out to be very marine biased.
Really liking this, fix that wall issue, and you have a map ready for testing. Change that single bright light to 3 dimmer lights, and look at one or two others, it's not the atmospherics, just too much intensity and range from a single light source. I want to play it! Jet pack movement is interesting, some corridors really negate height, but allow really fast movement, will present a lot more interesting JP battles. Post details of any games or servers using this and I'll be there to test :)
-----EDIT-----
Don't judge my screenshots as quality indications of the map, I play NS2 at ridiculously awful settings, this is a very pretty map :)
Also I am loving some of the custom models you have in there, can I use some? If they are not custom, I really need to spend more time browsing the models :)
I really like the look of a lot of your room designs though, keep up the good work.
Arkanti, I will look into that, thanks for the good tip. I haven't gorged for ages, so I'm out of touch with how the current cyst system works.
Unfortunately I won't be able to make the fixes until next week as I'm not at home this weekend. I'll keep you updated when I'm done.
Arkanti, I will look into that, thanks for the good tip. I haven't gorged for ages, so I'm out of touch with how the current cyst system works.
Unfortunately I won't be able to make the fixes until next week as I'm not at home this weekend. I'll keep you updated when I'm done.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No worries about that. I think Arkanti means as Alien comm. Jump in the comm chair and try and cyst around your map, you'll find your able to place cysts where you really don't want them to go :)
<!--fonto:Impact--><span style="font-family:Impact"><!--/fonto--><!--sizeo:6--><span style="font-size:24pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo--><!--coloro:#00BFFF--><span style="color:#00BFFF"><!--/coloro-->ns2_Kleos v.3.0a<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--><!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec--><!--fontc--></span><!--/fontc--> download at <a href="http://www.duplexgaming.co.uk/downloads/maps/67/ns2_kleos/" target="_blank">http://www.duplexgaming.co.uk/downloads/maps/67/ns2_kleos/</a>
It was more work than expected, but I managed to work quite fast as it was more tedious rather than creative work. Probably still a lot of problem areas that I've missed, but the comm view generally looks much clearer and cleaner than v.2.0 update, and I've gotten rid of all blinding lights. Phew. Keep the feedback coming, I really appreciate it - I expect there is still plenty of work to be done on this map, hopefully you can playtest it properly now.
<b>Changelog:</b>
<i>removed stray geometry blocking path.
removed areas where commander could plant cysts outside of playable space.
hid unnecessary props from comm view.
further tidied up minimap and comm view.
fixed annoying lights.
decided to hide all vents from comm view.</i>
<b>many thanks to:</b>
Soul_Rider and Arkanti for help on latest update.
:)
Round 1:
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oeael4d0hSs" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oeael4d0hSs</a>
Round 2:
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sSdJbIfmIoM" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sSdJbIfmIoM</a>
I think the map needs some more work. RR looks gr8 though!
If people find it too dark, I can start to make it brighter, but I didn't put in any fog effects on the level, and removed all the atmospherics on the lighting. Can't do anything about the fog, sorry :(
Scrajim, thanks very much for posting the gather videos, will really help me assess the problems and make larger changes to the map instead of just relying on speculation. If other people have gather videos, I would appreciate them too. I will also try to get in on gathers as the map gets more popular.
Keep the feedback flowing, thanks :)
Cool thanks for the tip Yuuki, I will look into it, and I will make areas of the map brighter.