Fog of War for Commander
fr0st2k
Join Date: 2004-04-26 Member: 28210Members
Join Date: 2004-04-26 Member: 28210Members
<div class="IPBDescription">and team assists and ownership for "building"</div>Im not sure if this feature has just not been implemented, but its necessary imo. (btw..you can't search for fog of war due to the search constraints...wtf?)
-Ensures commander sees and follows their team.
--Makes their teammate's visibility the commanders.
-Requires teammates to be near resource nodes/power, etc, in order to SEE them, let alone build them.
-Makes it feel generally more like a RTS
In the same vein...it psychologically brings the team together. It makes them aware of what the commander is doing.
The team also needs a lot more visibility as what the heck is going on in the commander chair.
As it is now, there is a complete lack of communication between the team and the commander in terms of UI. In the case that a mini-map is developed, different actions the commander is taking should undoubtedly appear around the map in some form (radial icon with radar-esque countdown timer)
-Ensures commander sees and follows their team.
--Makes their teammate's visibility the commanders.
-Requires teammates to be near resource nodes/power, etc, in order to SEE them, let alone build them.
-Makes it feel generally more like a RTS
In the same vein...it psychologically brings the team together. It makes them aware of what the commander is doing.
The team also needs a lot more visibility as what the heck is going on in the commander chair.
As it is now, there is a complete lack of communication between the team and the commander in terms of UI. In the case that a mini-map is developed, different actions the commander is taking should undoubtedly appear around the map in some form (radial icon with radar-esque countdown timer)
Comments
Also try this one, it's the advanced search of the forums (bookmark material)
<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?s=&act=Search&mode=adv&f=0" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index....ode=adv&f=0</a>
I was just playing the other day and hopped into commander as Alien. I didn't see fog of war? Maybe it was a bug.
I created drifters and pretty much was able to point it anywhere on the map and have it navigate there without giving it any thought.
Keeping track of my teammates was far more difficult than it should be.
I just remember in NS1, making progress through each level was something marines did well. Maybe its the random spawn locations that changes it, or just the fact that this is beta.
When you hit 'c' it should record a lot more information than it currently does. I have no problem with the entire map showing...people will memorize it in time anyway...however, information should remain for both the commander and marines.
For instance...if someone runs into the marines base, the map should be updated to show what structures are where and permanently show the marines location. Maybe the map is simply unintuitive and I didn't notice it during my game time. But the map always seemed to look the same other than alien and marine figures popping up occasionally.
I suppose what im asking for in short is MORE INFORMATION on essentially everything going on. The map is an important tool in an RTS and should be the connection between commander and players. We need more visual queues as to what the commander is thinking and we need incentives to follow their line of thought.
Suggestions include:
+Commander "Lock Down" button
--The commander can currently set active waypoints. Utilize this code and allow the commander to designate a room on the map as a "defense zone" as well. Indicated on the map, this would alert players that they should hold up and help fortify the room.
+Absolutely needs to be able to draw PATHS on the map.
--just needs to be there. Guild Wars did it well.
+Attach ownership to turrets for builders and resource nodes.
--When constructed, a turret or resource node should reward those who helped build it with kills and extra resources.
--allow multiple assignments
--limit the maximum received for balance purposes.
--lower the amount of resources gained outside "ownership"
----this incentive's players to stay near nodes/construction.
Another idea in that vein is to provide different incentives for EACH structure.
For instance....
Turrets would gain ownership and give kills to those who built it.
Resource nodes would provide extra resources for those in close proximity of it. This provides incentive for defense.
In case of the aliens...something else could be thought of for each unit. However, if you stick to the idea that aliens are the 'solo' run amok race, then less needs to be done for them in this regard.
- I Would suggest that each class of alien gets a "build boost" ability to help grow/evolve structures faster.
--Gorges of course would increase it the fastest, whereas skulks, fades, etc do so at a slower pace.
What im essentially asking for (or lusting after), is a map system that functions much more similarly to a real RTS.
A Hybrid FPS/RTS game like this is a very cool idea..but it REALLY doesn't feel like a hybrid. Non-commander players should feel like SCV's, zerglings, or zealots (marines) from SC. The commander should feel like they are playing a RTS and that their troops are alive.
I do NOT get that feeling. And to me, it doesn't seem like they are going for it. Maybe they have tunnel vision and lost track of the original plan.
I think a good place to start with this is to correctly lay out the map and the FoW. Doing so would really add to the feeling of the RTS genre.
-Having to "scout" and explore, while keeping discovered structures on the map should be the first thing.
-Requiring vision of a particular node or area in order to build it is another.
Pairing incentives with options like defense and offense is another thing. Why should anyone want to sit and camp a resource node? Well, if it provided them with a balanced amount of resource stream, then maybe they would choose that over seeking out enemies.
Either way, the commander and its units need to be more cohesive. Right now, it feels like 2 separate games with a very loose tie in.
I'm getting the impression from your posts around here that you're basing all of your suggestions on first impressions on the game and not a complete understanding of the game. Please don't take this the wrong way (and believe me, there's no offense intended), but it might help to play the game a bit more before making wild suggestions around here. Some features already in the game could be made clearer, but NS2 really isn't a stage where polish should be a developer's core concern. A lot of what you're proposing is either in the game or can be countered by an argument coming from a more experienced player.
If you claim, for example, that Marines need a sprint ability and that Skulks need a longer attack range, I'm more likely to think that the attack range suggestion comes from personal frustration as a Skulk rather than a real understanding of what the implications of a range increase really are. It's a bit like suggesting that the AWP (Counter-Strike weapon) needs a zoom function so that players can better track their targets, followed by suggesting that players on the Terrorist team should be able to jump higher so they can better camp bomb sites.
I'm getting the impression from your posts around here that you're basing all of your suggestions on first impressions on the game and not a complete understanding of the game. Please don't take this the wrong way (and believe me, there's no offense intended), but it might help to play the game a bit more before making wild suggestions around here. Some features already in the game could be made clearer, but NS2 really isn't a stage where polish should be a developer's core concern. A lot of what you're proposing is either in the game or can be countered by an argument coming from a more experienced player.
If you claim, for example, that Marines need a sprint ability and that Skulks need a longer attack range, I'm more likely to think that the attack range suggestion comes from personal frustration as a Skulk rather than a real understanding of what the implications of a range increase really are. It's a bit like suggesting that the AWP (Counter-Strike weapon) needs a zoom function so that players can better track their targets, followed by suggesting that players on the Terrorist team should be able to jump higher so they can better camp bomb sites.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well..my suggestion, imo, are the difference between this game being liked/loved by the current niche hardcore, and it being taken in and being played by a huge group and demographic.
T and CT are identical...aliens and marines should not be. So im not understanding your analogy.
though honestly .. people will play this game and make a first impression. I understand this is beta, and it needs a lot of polish and they are focusing on other things at the time being.
However, its never too early to start planning ahead, and so, take my suggestions as they are; and outside perspective on where this game should be going.
+1 for permanent building minimap visibility after being spot.
T and CT are identical...aliens and marines should not be. So im not understanding your analogy.
though honestly .. people will play this game and make a first impression. I understand this is beta, and it needs a lot of polish and they are focusing on other things at the time being.
However, its never too early to start planning ahead, and so, take my suggestions as they are; and outside perspective on where this game should be going.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Of course people make a first impression! But if you jump into a game of Counter-Strike with a pistol, and think "Hey, wouldn't it be cool if this game had smoke grenades? I should go suggest it!", a lot of people who are trying to offer more researched suggestions aren't really going to appreciate the knee-jerk reaction from the forum newcomer.
With that said, there's is some meat to your suggestions in that you are new, and haven't fallen into the fold like the old-timers. I'll post comments on this in the appropriate threads. Again, please don't take my criticism as an attack.
<!--quoteo(post=1887773:date=Dec 1 2011, 05:03 AM:name=Zeikko)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Zeikko @ Dec 1 2011, 05:03 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1887773"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I understood that this suggestion is about making the buildings visible in the minimap after they have been spot even if there are no units to see the buildings currently. I fully support this suggestion. This is the way the map and fog of war works in most of the RTS games. This would add a lot of cooperation to the teams. At this moment a lot of time in public and organized games is used to communicate the location of enemy buildings to the team. And even in organized games people miss a whole bunch of this communicated information because of the information overload while concentrating on winning the battle. Often you hear somebody saying: "oh they have a hive?" even though a player spotted it minutes ago and told in the voicechat.
+1 for permanent building minimap visibility after being spot.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Actually, this would be great! Because of the way the NS2 command interface plays already, icons should appear different (translucent? darker?) when they represent a memory of a discovered structure, but aren't in current line of sight.
<!--quoteo(post=1887744:date=Nov 30 2011, 10:34 PM:name=fr0st2k)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (fr0st2k @ Nov 30 2011, 10:34 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1887744"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Requires teammates to be near resource nodes/power, etc, in order to SEE them, let alone build them.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This part of your suggestion isn't included in the game now, but I really disagree that this should be implemented. It would drastically raise the learning curve of commander mode without any benefit. Modern RTS games (StarCraft 2, C&C3+) all reveal resource locations in multiplayer maps, because the player would end up memorizing their locations anyway after some time. At least like this, the information is accessible to the newbie as well as the pro.