Despite the fact wilson is a negative nelly, I agree with him. This build is, aside from the obvious awesomeness that is atmospherics, terrible.
There is no game balance, things are either too fast(killing other players, dying as a gorge), or too slow(running seems slower as a marine).
There are numerous bugs: If you fire any weapon(grenade launcher is especially woefull), swap to the pistol(or perhaps also switchaxe), then swap back to the previous weapon, it will auto fire... RAPIDLY, it's at least 3 x the firing speed of normal grenade fires.
There is no game balance, did I mention that? Either you have one team dominating the other within the first 30 seconds, or the round will go on for over 2 hours, and people end up going to ready room to end the round.
I really dislike this build, it's frustrating, and I'm just not going to bother with it until there is a patch addressing these crippling problems... I mean, I'll play again next patch.
InsaneAnomalyJoin Date: 2002-05-13Member: 605Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, NS2 Map Tester, Subnautica Developer, Pistachionauts, Future Perfect Developer
A note on the marine HUD - the scan-in effect on spawn is entirely placeholder at the moment. I agree that what's there at the moment is too intrusive, and what we have planned should obstruct much less of your vision.
Anyone know if theres a command to turn off the bullet hit effects etc? Its really starting to annoy me. Can't see the crosshair and can't quickly differentiate between the effect of bullets hitting walls behind and bullets hitting the skulk because their both so similar.
Something also seems wrong with hitboxes and/or prediction (alien and marine)? Did you guys change anything there? Axe is way too slow. Performance somehow dips during combat as well so it feels like your wading through a muddy lake.. mmm.
ArgathorJoin Date: 2011-07-18Member: 110942Members, Squad Five Blue
edited November 2011
I almost forgot, the first time I fired a GL (and the explosion actually showed up) I thought someone had fired a tactical nuke. Holy cow, it's a bit over the top!
It isn't so much that its too big, but it roars upwards aggressively and looks....wrong.
ZeikkoJoin Date: 2007-12-16Member: 63179Members, Squad Five Blue, NS2 Map Tester
<!--quoteo(post=1886799:date=Nov 25 2011, 11:49 AM:name=Perestroika)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Perestroika @ Nov 25 2011, 11:49 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1886799"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->marines got hilariously rushed with like 10 whips in one game earlier tonight and instantly lost
wish i had recorded it<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Yay! We have to try the <a href="http://youtu.be/wiew2JGsEt8" target="_blank">whip rush strategy</a> (the whip rush starts at 1:00) again in this build:
<!--quoteo(post=1886721:date=Nov 24 2011, 06:25 PM:name=Squeal_Like_A_Pig)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Squeal_Like_A_Pig @ Nov 24 2011, 06:25 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1886721"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->That already is implemented. The mappers can flag a techpoint in the editor as either an alien spawn, marine spawn, or neither.
--Cory<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
But that was not what I suggested and does not cover all N*(N-1) combinations. I suggested a simple white-list for <b>pairs</b> of spawns. This can handle every single case by simply leaving it up to the mappers discretion.
Spawn A too close to spawn B? Don't white-list the { marines A, aliens B} or {marines B, aliens A} spawn pairs. Spawn C crap for marines and spawn D crap for aliens? That might actually work, whitelist { marines C, aliens D }. Spawn C crap for marines and spawn E good for aliens? Don't put { Marines C, Aliens E} on the whitelist.
DghelneshiAims to surpass Fana in post edits.Join Date: 2011-11-01Member: 130634Members, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow
edited November 2011
<!--quoteo(post=1886826:date=Nov 25 2011, 12:29 PM:name=Soylent_green)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Soylent_green @ Nov 25 2011, 12:29 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1886826"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->But that was not what I suggested and does not cover all N*(N-1) combinations. I suggested a simple white-list for <b>pairs</b> of spawns. This can handle every single case by simply leaving it up to the mappers discretion.
Spawn A too close to spawn B? Don't white-list the { marines A, aliens B} or {marines B, aliens A} spawn pairs. Spawn C crap for marines and spawn D crap for aliens? That might actually work, whitelist { marines C, aliens D }. Spawn C crap for marines and spawn E good for aliens? Don't put { Marines C, Aliens E} on the whitelist.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> That's a great idea. Most maps will need that kind of pairings due to the simple fact that aliens have an advantage if they spawn close to the marine base.
Let me give you an example on ns2_summit:
Standard situation: Marines start at Marine Start and aliens start at Alien Start. Marines will now go to FC and Vent and get 2 RTs at the same time. They can watch both entrances to Marine Start without being idle at the base, so if the aliens would (as an example) rush from Vent, there would be guys waiting at vent, delaying and damaging them, while the guys in FC can already go back to base to help save it.
Random starts: If marines start at Marine Start and the aliens at Data Core, Marines will have to build their RTs in FC and Heli, since Vent is too close to the aliens. Going from MS to Heli takes at least twice as long as going from MS to Vent, so the RT will be up later. The aliens will also have an easy time rushing the marines, since they are so close and the marines in heli can't go back to base as fast as they could from vent, and you also don't have anyone covering the Vent side other than those who stay in base anyway to build the IP/Armory. Even the guys from FC can't get back to base in time since an alien rush would only be visible at the time they are already inside the base. So either you need more guys staying at base, delaying the RTs even further, or you try going for the Vent node, which is risky and probably res intensive.
Aliens have no disadvantage from spawning close since time and manpower is not the limiting factor of getting RTs up, only hive energy. Marines, on the other hand, always need some time at the start of the game to get their stuff built, so the map has to guarantee they have that time.
Hitdetection still seems to be an issue(or is it just my aim? :p).
Havent played enough games yet to say anything about balance, but its hard say anything when hitdetection is so bad when more entities starts popping up.
I kinda think, the problem is to a big part structures... i just tested it on a listen server (tram), and build possible amounts of structures in a normal ns2 public game.
3hives 10hydras 6crags 6 whips 2shades nearly 50% of the map with pustules 3 harvester and 2-3 drifter 2 CCs all other RTs all tech structures 2 armorys 6 sentrys 2 phasegates 2macs forgot to build arcs or mines Maybe i forgot some stuff so it could be a little bit more structures... No other players or bots - so no fighting.
Stats on empty server:
around 60-70 client tickrate and fps 30 server tickrate
With all those structures: around 18-20 client tickrate and fps around 20-22 server tickrate
Hardware: 4.5ghz i5 gtx 570 8gb ram and a ssd. Settings: All on, all max 1080p newest nvidia driver.
So performance gets already around 50% lower during midgame - and into extreme bad situations late game or with stalemates. => ofc inputlag, jerky movement, hit detection and collision problems happen because of that etc
I feel like last build didnt went so heavily down over time, dunno why this happens in 188...
So OccCul could be the best and fastest on the world, and it wouldnt really help because of this problems... yay i got relative stable 18fps if there are lots of structures(realistic amounts) :P
- I didnt really test it well enough if its gets better in areas without structures, brb. edit: while it gets a little better in an empty area, its still around 20ticks/fps lower than on an empty map. (tested at same position and aim in marine start, most structures where center and alienstart)
This needs more than 100% improvement of performance also on the server client... add 32 players (which is in theory planned to be possible) and some real spammer amounts of hydras sentrys arcs macs etc... and you can play at 1fps. (but i guess server would crash before)
twilitebluebug stalkerJoin Date: 2003-02-04Member: 13116Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
edited November 2011
Just a few issues I've encountered that haven't been mentioned yet:
- Command Stations push Marines away from the center platform, even when there is no Commander. - It is easy to reach the entity limit around Hives, possibly because the huge number of Eggs and Cysts. - MAC Mines rarely deal the full 50 damage because of its short range (each usually deals around 25 damage). - Light damage seems to deal too much damage to armor. Pistol and Spikes are killing way too fast. Actually, I think all damage modifiers are broken, as Fade Swipe and Grenade are not dealing their bonus damages. - Whips attack much faster now, but the damage is actually respectable now (please leave it). - One of the initial Cysts spawns on the resource node, preventing any Harvester from being rebuilt unless the Cyst is destroyed. - Egg hitbox is much smaller than the model size.
- Marine jump makes it easier to get where you want, but it also unlocks a lot of new places to get stuck. Mostly places where you cant use jump again because you're stuck between crates and wall(like the crates in holodeck on tram). - Reload speed and ROF on the SG seems to be very slow and getting slower as tickrate and fps goes down in mid-late game. Haven't tested it enough to confirm it though. Probably the same for other weapons. - The sounds gets culled to much sometimes. I.E: On summit - its hard to hear a skulk attacking the RT at FC if you are standing at the FC tech-spot. Sounds like its happening farther away than it actually is. Sounds from weapons are also very weak above 10-15 meters. - Changing fire-mode on the pistol is painfully slow. Also missing an indicator showing what mode its in. - The damage from the mines seem very weak. Skulks shouldn't survive one no matter what armor lvl.
Performance is still too poor in mid-late game on my rig, but playable the first 15 minutes of an average game.
Comments
There is no game balance, things are either too fast(killing other players, dying as a gorge), or too slow(running seems slower as a marine).
There are numerous bugs: If you fire any weapon(grenade launcher is especially woefull), swap to the pistol(or perhaps also switchaxe), then swap back to the previous weapon, it will auto fire... RAPIDLY, it's at least 3 x the firing speed of normal grenade fires.
There is no game balance, did I mention that? Either you have one team dominating the other within the first 30 seconds, or the round will go on for over 2 hours, and people end up going to ready room to end the round.
I really dislike this build, it's frustrating, and I'm just not going to bother with it until there is a patch addressing these crippling problems... I mean, I'll play again next patch.
wish i had recorded it
Something also seems wrong with hitboxes and/or prediction (alien and marine)? Did you guys change anything there? Axe is way too slow. Performance somehow dips during combat as well so it feels like your wading through a muddy lake.. mmm.
It isn't so much that its too big, but it roars upwards aggressively and looks....wrong.
wish i had recorded it<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yay! We have to try the <a href="http://youtu.be/wiew2JGsEt8" target="_blank">whip rush strategy</a> (the whip rush starts at 1:00) again in this build:
--Cory<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
But that was not what I suggested and does not cover all N*(N-1) combinations. I suggested a simple white-list for <b>pairs</b> of spawns. This can handle every single case by simply leaving it up to the mappers discretion.
Spawn A too close to spawn B? Don't white-list the { marines A, aliens B} or {marines B, aliens A} spawn pairs.
Spawn C crap for marines and spawn D crap for aliens? That might actually work, whitelist { marines C, aliens D }.
Spawn C crap for marines and spawn E good for aliens? Don't put { Marines C, Aliens E} on the whitelist.
Spawn A too close to spawn B? Don't white-list the { marines A, aliens B} or {marines B, aliens A} spawn pairs.
Spawn C crap for marines and spawn D crap for aliens? That might actually work, whitelist { marines C, aliens D }.
Spawn C crap for marines and spawn E good for aliens? Don't put { Marines C, Aliens E} on the whitelist.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's a great idea. Most maps will need that kind of pairings due to the simple fact that aliens have an advantage if they spawn close to the marine base.
Let me give you an example on ns2_summit:
Standard situation: Marines start at Marine Start and aliens start at Alien Start.
Marines will now go to FC and Vent and get 2 RTs at the same time. They can watch both entrances to Marine Start without being idle at the base, so if the aliens would (as an example) rush from Vent, there would be guys waiting at vent, delaying and damaging them, while the guys in FC can already go back to base to help save it.
Random starts: If marines start at Marine Start and the aliens at Data Core, Marines will have to build their RTs in FC and Heli, since Vent is too close to the aliens. Going from MS to Heli takes at least twice as long as going from MS to Vent, so the RT will be up later. The aliens will also have an easy time rushing the marines, since they are so close and the marines in heli can't go back to base as fast as they could from vent, and you also don't have anyone covering the Vent side other than those who stay in base anyway to build the IP/Armory. Even the guys from FC can't get back to base in time since an alien rush would only be visible at the time they are already inside the base.
So either you need more guys staying at base, delaying the RTs even further, or you try going for the Vent node, which is risky and probably res intensive.
Aliens have no disadvantage from spawning close since time and manpower is not the limiting factor of getting RTs up, only hive energy.
Marines, on the other hand, always need some time at the start of the game to get their stuff built, so the map has to guarantee they have that time.
I like the new atmosphere effects.
Hitdetection still seems to be an issue(or is it just my aim? :p).
Havent played enough games yet to say anything about balance, but its hard say anything when hitdetection is so bad when more entities starts popping up.
3hives 10hydras 6crags 6 whips 2shades nearly 50% of the map with pustules 3 harvester and 2-3 drifter
2 CCs all other RTs all tech structures 2 armorys 6 sentrys 2 phasegates 2macs forgot to build arcs or mines
Maybe i forgot some stuff so it could be a little bit more structures...
No other players or bots - so no fighting.
Stats on empty server:
around 60-70 client tickrate and fps
30 server tickrate
With all those structures:
around 18-20 client tickrate and fps
around 20-22 server tickrate
Hardware: 4.5ghz i5 gtx 570 8gb ram and a ssd.
Settings: All on, all max 1080p newest nvidia driver.
So performance gets already around 50% lower during midgame - and into extreme bad situations late game or with stalemates.
=> ofc inputlag, jerky movement, hit detection and collision problems happen because of that etc
I feel like last build didnt went so heavily down over time, dunno why this happens in 188...
So OccCul could be the best and fastest on the world, and it wouldnt really help because of this problems... yay i got relative stable 18fps if there are lots of structures(realistic amounts) :P
- I didnt really test it well enough if its gets better in areas without structures, brb.
edit: while it gets a little better in an empty area, its still around 20ticks/fps lower than on an empty map. (tested at same position and aim in marine start, most structures where center and alienstart)
This needs more than 100% improvement of performance also on the server client... add 32 players (which is in theory planned to be possible) and some real spammer amounts of hydras sentrys arcs macs etc... and you can play at 1fps. (but i guess server would crash before)
- Command Stations push Marines away from the center platform, even when there is no Commander.
- It is easy to reach the entity limit around Hives, possibly because the huge number of Eggs and Cysts.
- MAC Mines rarely deal the full 50 damage because of its short range (each usually deals around 25 damage).
- Light damage seems to deal too much damage to armor. Pistol and Spikes are killing way too fast. Actually, I think all damage modifiers are broken, as Fade Swipe and Grenade are not dealing their bonus damages.
- Whips attack much faster now, but the damage is actually respectable now (please leave it).
- One of the initial Cysts spawns on the resource node, preventing any Harvester from being rebuilt unless the Cyst is destroyed.
- Egg hitbox is much smaller than the model size.
- Marine jump makes it easier to get where you want, but it also unlocks a lot of new places to get stuck. Mostly places where you cant use jump again because you're stuck between crates and wall(like the crates in holodeck on tram).
- Reload speed and ROF on the SG seems to be very slow and getting slower as tickrate and fps goes down in mid-late game. Haven't tested it enough to confirm it though. Probably the same for other weapons.
- The sounds gets culled to much sometimes. I.E: On summit - its hard to hear a skulk attacking the RT at FC if you are standing at the FC tech-spot. Sounds like its happening farther away than it actually is. Sounds from weapons are also very weak above 10-15 meters.
- Changing fire-mode on the pistol is painfully slow. Also missing an indicator showing what mode its in.
- The damage from the mines seem very weak. Skulks shouldn't survive one no matter what armor lvl.
Performance is still too poor in mid-late game on my rig, but playable the first 15 minutes of an average game.