ARC spam.
Papayas
Join Date: 2010-07-01 Member: 72219Members
Join Date: 2010-07-01 Member: 72219Members
<div class="IPBDescription">Played 1 round and I got fed up very soon.</div>Ok, I got my new graphics today so I wanted to play some NS2 to see how it was getting along because I have not played it for a while now.
I went alien and as soon as they got ARCs I noticed 1 thing that was really really really getting on my nerves.
It was the 500 ARCs that came to us every 3 minutes. It got so god damn annoying. We would manage to kill the marines; easy.
but the amount of ARCs that were there we couldn't destroy them all and before we could kill the last one our hive was already dead...
Pretty bad considering that I play for 1 round and it is the only thing that I notice.
So, Please UWE make a limit to the ARCs... Maximum of 3...
I went alien and as soon as they got ARCs I noticed 1 thing that was really really really getting on my nerves.
It was the 500 ARCs that came to us every 3 minutes. It got so god damn annoying. We would manage to kill the marines; easy.
but the amount of ARCs that were there we couldn't destroy them all and before we could kill the last one our hive was already dead...
Pretty bad considering that I play for 1 round and it is the only thing that I notice.
So, Please UWE make a limit to the ARCs... Maximum of 3...
Comments
I just thought of this; the gorge has his bile bomb. Even though it is useless against turtling it might be effective against ARC rushes...
However, the gorge is such a boring class to be now that even if people HAVE to go Gorge they would prefer to go Fade...
Making the gorge have quite a bit of health would maybe make people choose it.
They should make him so that even though he is crap at fighting/killing he should have enough health to effectively get away.
Edit: Onos will be out in 188 but what is the counter to the Onos going to be and is that counter going to prevent it from breaking the shell of marine turtles...
And also if the Marines can build 10 ARC (200Res) aliens did something really really really wrong IMO. That would almost be the same if the aliens would have 3 onos.
That ain't a gamplay problem, beside the stacking, it is more a lack on gorges and too many fades.
The stacking problem will be fixed in 188 (or play on HBZ) and maybe we will see the onos also.
Not really. Right now you can spam a lot of non-NPC game elements (GLs, fades, crags, hydras, sentries, etc) that lead to similar game-breaking issues. In general, I think of lot of these problems are related to two core game problems
1. Lack of effective alien siege weapons/classes
2. Unbalanced economy and cost structure between the two sides (i.e. aliens have more res then things they can spend it on and marines have too few)
I mean, I can be holding half the map, and I'd struggle to keep three arcs with a marine push, they're very easy to isolate and destroy, and very hard to keep healed.
Unless the servers were messing with the res rate, what you're describing really shouldn't be possible.
I mean, I can be holding half the map, and I'd struggle to keep three arcs with a marine push, they're very easy to isolate and destroy, and very hard to keep healed.
Unless the servers were messing with the res rate, what you're describing really shouldn't be possible.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I have seen this happen once when the marines managed to turret spam themselves into marines start and data core giving them access to several resource towers.
Aliens must have been really bad that game.
I mean, I can be holding half the map, and I'd struggle to keep three arcs with a marine push, they're very easy to isolate and destroy, and very hard to keep healed.
Unless the servers were messing with the res rate, what you're describing really shouldn't be possible.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Because the matches just last that long. For example, with 2 RTs getting 1 TRes every 12s, you have enough to build one ARC (20 TRes) every two minutes, meaning 10 ARCs in 20 min of gameplay, faster (or more ARCs) if more than 2 RTs. If the match lasts 2+ hours (not uncommon) its fairly trivial to build up a large ARC train that you can suicide into killing a hive.
Of course, this happens because marines can build more or less impenetrable mini-bases consisting of a few sentries, a PG, an armory, and a powerpack in each room. The current bilebomb/skulk bite can be useful against killing these mini-bases as long as there is no marines around, which is rare in an actual match. In effect, the aliens need an anti-structure class/attack comparable to the dps of the grenade launcher (which is effective at killing even the most entrenched locations).
<!--quoteo(post=1886042:date=Nov 21 2011, 04:06 PM:name=Chris0132)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Chris0132 @ Nov 21 2011, 04:06 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1886042"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->That's three exits at best, maybe four if they don't hold that weird circular room just southwest of data core, how do you manage to turret farm three exits? I can barely manage two, hell I can't manage two, I can manage one and hope the aliens don't use the other one, and I'm still spending all my money on turrets.
Aliens must have been really bad that game.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You don't have to sentry up every possible entrance/part of the room for this to be effective. All you have to do is cover the major room assets, which in practice usually means the res and power node. I find that I can do this pretty effectively with 2-3 sentries and, if I build a powerpack, can ignore the power node and cluster everything around the res node. Also, note that you don't need the sentries to stop the alien attack (although it is nice), but to delay the aliens long enough such that a marine can phase to the location. 3 sentries placed in the proper locations buys more than enough time for marine reinforcements to arrive in most cases.
teamplay > sentry/turtle
Bilebomb is area of effect.
I just can't imagine anyone winning with that strategy.
Bilebomb is area of effect.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
basically that..
takes the same amount of time to kill 1 arc, and 20 arcs stacked on top of each other
bilebomb also clears any macs trying to repair it
takes the same amount of time to kill 1 arc, and 20 arcs stacked on top of each other
bilebomb also clears any macs trying to repair it<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I dislike this argument in the same way people argue that you can kill fades easily with a flamethrower/shotgun combo, it just doesn't happen that often in practice.
Sure, a good gorge can quickly bilebomb an ARC to death just as a good shotgun/flamethrower teamwork can devastate a fade. However, if you have players who are good enough to do both, then its unlikely you'll ever have to do that because you'd never let the other team get enough TRes for an ARC spam or a 2nd hive.
Instead, what is needed is either to solve the underlying problem (i.e. marine turtling) or a more viable alternative for average players (i.e. increase bite damage against ARCs). I'd prefer the former, but the latter can be a quick and easy fix until the actual problem is solved.
And they still did not fix mac stacking, that is pretty shocking imo.
MACS need to be limited to certain number, and if one MAC is building/repairing other MACS should NOT help increase the speed of the task. And i still say MACS need to be removed, players should be doing everything on their own, it will only promote better relationship between marine and commander while define better class roles within each group. (for example group A does task X while group B does task Y)
to sum up, bile bomb is VERY weak currently, while the gorge class a very boring limited class. And MAC stacking still isn't fixed.
To be fair, they did fix MAC stacking, but it caused other problems (such as MACs stopping when they ran into any other entity), so they redid much of the NPC pathing, which brought the problem back.
If they improve the gorge then it might help to slightly fix the problem of marine turtling but for now people want to kill and as gorge they don't achieve it.
I want to say something else as well. It is about how fast the marines get to tier up.
10 minutes into the game and marines have everything from shotguns to flame-throwers.
If you don't have a second hive then you will be wiped out by the flamers.. enough said...
Wiped by the flamers? :D Are you serious?
Flamer is the worst weapon in the game and can hardly be used to wipe an unupgraded skulk. Even if you group Flamer with bunch of marines with other weaponry and put them against a fade the fade will most likely win.
(pssst he meant if marines get flamers before you could get a seconde hive, so you wouldn't have fades)
Anyway I do agree, I don't think flamers are a big issue for aliens, they cost a lot and are not that effective. I would be much more scared of a squad of GLs. Against them hydras are useless and skulks get instant-killed.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->For marine turtling you need 2-3 of the fades and the rest gorges, but as I said it almost never happens.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
+1 Stop saying the gorge is useless, start playing it and you will see that he is the solution to stalemates.
Yeah i just wanted to take the best scenario possible for using a flamer and note that it is still pretty useless.
the way the gorge spreads infestation needs to change as well. Currently the gorge has to spend his res to spread infestation which is silly. Infestation spread should be more natural and easy to spread. cysts need to cost energy, not personal res making it easy for the spread of infestation. Not only will it help the gorge be busy spreading infestation but since its so easy killing cysts, replacing them should be easy as well.
some basic ideas to the gorges;
1. enhance bile bomb, increase its area effect and damage against buildings
2. Allow cysts to cost energy only
3. remove being rooted in-place while building
4. let the gorge drop res towers and other chambers
the only thing stands in the way of expanding gorge class is the broken idea of the alien commander. Either limit alien commanders to expand the gorge or remove the commander role.