Bunny Hopping Idea
zex
Join Date: 2009-10-07 Member: 68978Members
Join Date: 2009-10-07 Member: 68978Members
<div class="IPBDescription">bhopping thrad</div>The idea behind bunny hopping is that you gain momentum by strafe+jumping while rotating the opposite direction from the strafe to maintain forward movement. And this is a desirable mechanic because it allows players to develop the skill properly and have a movement advantage over new players and those who dont know how to do it. The problems with it being a) it was an engine glitch/exploit, and therefore breaks the fourth wall), and b) scripts make it automatic and remove the "skill" aspect, making it a cheap advantage over newbs.
It seems like it would be a "best of both worlds" solution to implement it as a feature with none of the drawbacks. The implementation works as such:
- the input scheme is the same as classic bhop
- jumping has a specific "correct" timing dependent on how fast the player is moving. Mis-timed jumps cause you to lose momentum, eliminating the utility of jumpspam scripts.
- when airborne, strafing and small L/R mouse movements will not move or rotate the player, eliminating the glitchy graphic appearance. Instead, this will swing the viewmodel left or right according to mouse control, as if the player character is swinging his arms to gain momentum.
edit - updated to reflect the NS1 style bhop
It seems like it would be a "best of both worlds" solution to implement it as a feature with none of the drawbacks. The implementation works as such:
- the input scheme is the same as classic bhop
- jumping has a specific "correct" timing dependent on how fast the player is moving. Mis-timed jumps cause you to lose momentum, eliminating the utility of jumpspam scripts.
- when airborne, strafing and small L/R mouse movements will not move or rotate the player, eliminating the glitchy graphic appearance. Instead, this will swing the viewmodel left or right according to mouse control, as if the player character is swinging his arms to gain momentum.
edit - updated to reflect the NS1 style bhop
Comments
Btw bhop never used "w". Iirc 'w' checked the game max-speed, so it was only not-using w that you could exceed it.
Was all strafe + mwheel jump.
Time spent on the ground was the other speed check, so you had to bind mwheel to jump and roll it to insta-jump on ground contact.
So if you're in a hallway;
1/ Roll mouse wheel to jump.
2/ Look at the right wall, but strafe left (to head in the desired direction).
3/ Roll the mwheel on landing to insta-jump on land.
4/ Look at the left wall, but strafe right (to head in the desired direction).
It was the cycling from [look right strafe left], to [look left strafe right], which gave bhop the side to side, S shaped movement.
But even the bunnyhop scripts were pretty bad compared to the real thing. Least I never played with any good players who used them. There were always lots of accusations of scripting or hacking, but like in most games, mainly from players that had NFI.
They aren't an issue at all in my concept. Spamming would just slow the player down.
I dislike bunny hopping because it is an exploit of the engine glitch, rather than a realistic aspect of the gameplay itself.
Here is an argument against me: if you limit everything to pure predefined gameplay, and disallow players to use exploits to change the game scene, the game will eventually become boring over time.
I disagree with that, please correct me if I'm wrong, but star craft has remained incredibly popular, and is still played to this day, not because of exploits, but because it's inherent gameplay is so good and balanced.
I have also played a game called Xonotic, which is similar to Nexuiz, anyway, they have bunny hopping, and all you need to do to bunny hop is hold down the space bar.
I am terrible at bunny hopping in other games, can never seem to get the skill right.
Natural selection 2 is not an "Ultra Fast FPS", it is an rts/fps, with emphasis on the rts.
I find Xonotic Fun.
MY main point is I disagree with adding in bunny hopping to give better players an advantage against newbs, or an advantage against people who don't want to bunny hop in order to do well in the game.
I personally, would rather enjoy the game in such a way that allows me to get immersed in the game world experience, rather than have some bunny hopping players go "boing boing boing" through the base at 100km/hr.
So I'm against bunny hopping in NS2 because it kills the atmosphere and immersion the game has, and could have.
I dislike bunny hopping because it is an exploit of the engine glitch, rather than a realistic aspect of the gameplay itself.
Here is an argument against me: if you limit everything to pure predefined gameplay, and disallow players to use exploits to change the game scene, the game will eventually become boring over time.
I disagree with that, please correct me if I'm wrong, but star craft has remained incredibly popular, and is still played to this day, not because of exploits, but because it's inherent gameplay is so good and balanced.
I have also played a game called Xonotic, which is similar to Nexuiz, anyway, they have bunny hopping, and all you need to do to bunny hop is hold down the space bar.
I am terrible at bunny hopping in other games, can never seem to get the skill right.
Natural selection 2 is not an "Ultra Fast FPS", it is an rts/fps, with emphasis on the rts.
I find Xonotic Fun.
MY main point is I disagree with adding in bunny hopping to give better players an advantage against newbs, or an advantage against people who don't want to bunny hop in order to do well in the game.
I personally, would rather enjoy the game in such a way that allows me to get immersed in the game world experience, rather than have some bunny hopping players go "boing boing boing" through the base at 100km/hr.
So I'm against bunny hopping in NS2 because it kills the atmosphere and immersion the game has, and could have.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
He's got a point.
1. Skulks don't need bhop, skulks are exactly what their name is a skulker, you should not be face charging into marines, thats why theres all the stuff in ns to hide behind, around on or vents. Hide until the marine is close enough for a leap. People need to get some REAL skill at playing the game not finding a way to exploit it so they can just run around being unable to be hit because they are moving too fast to track.
2. Halo reach was garbage.
Here is an argument against me: if you limit everything to pure predefined gameplay, and disallow players to use exploits to change the game scene, the game will eventually become boring over time.
I disagree with that, please correct me if I'm wrong, but star craft has remained incredibly popular, and is still played to this day, not because of exploits, but because it's inherent gameplay is so good and balanced.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It doesn't really matter what it is or where it came from, if it adds to the game it adds to the game, trying to discard it for it's origins is ludicrous. If anything, it should be ridden of it's "exploit"-denomination, and properly formalized.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I have also played a game called Xonotic, which is similar to Nexuiz, anyway, they have bunny hopping, and all you need to do to bunny hop is hold down the space bar.
I am terrible at bunny hopping in other games, can never seem to get the skill right.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's a quake-style bunnyhopping-mechanism, which is a very real option to have in NS2, as it removes the necessity of scripts\mousewheels and similar shenanigans.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I personally, would rather enjoy the game in such a way that allows me to get immersed in the game world experience, rather than have some bunny hopping players go "boing boing boing" through the base at 100km/hr.
So I'm against bunny hopping in NS2 because it kills the atmosphere and immersion the game has, and could have.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's a fair point, and one I've adressed before. While atmosphere is a nice thing, it usually doesn't stand the test of time. NS1 was similar as NS2 is now, slow gameplay, a lot of darkness and a general feeling of suspense. But in due time that dissipated: you can only be intimidated by the same maps\lifeforms\sounds so many times, and if you went ahead to say 9 years later NS1 is still, shall we say, a scary\suspenseful game, you're talking a bit of nonsense.
I, for one, am already fed up with NS2's darkness pretty much, and we've only been going a good 1 year, and at some point the rest too will get sick of shining the flashlight in every corner of the map and staring into the darkness until your eyes hurt.
That was a bit of a rant regarding atmosphere. It's a good thing, but please don't cripple gameplay for the sake of it, as 5 years down the road (maybe?) that atmosphere is largely gone, and we're stuck with the gameplay only. NS1 didn't last as long as it did because it had brilliant graphics to be quite honest, it was the solid and unique gameplay.
And I'm kind of not inclined to even respond to RichardRahl anymore, because I don't think he ever played NS1.
The only reason you Pro-bhop players don't want to respond to my posts is because you have nothing valid to say other than your die-hard statements of.
"zomg it's skill based movement it needs to be in to serperate us leetzors to the lamezor noobs who can't use a 10 year old engine exploit"
The original Starcraft: Brood War that has withstood 10 years of actual professional gaming in Korea is probably the most bug-benefiting game alongside the HL and Quake families. There's patrol micro, there's unit stacking, there's mineral glitching, there are movement patterns to abuse the AI. At least the unit stacking for workers and the combination of patrol micro and unit stacking for mutalisk are pretty much essential mechanics at pro level play. The mineral glitching has allowed interesting map designs. The weird movement and micro patterns are part of something that made players like Boxer (probably the most famous esports person ever) legendary.
<!--quoteo(post=1881729:date=Oct 24 2011, 11:28 PM:name=)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE ( @ Oct 24 2011, 11:28 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1881729"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->They aren't an issue at all in my concept. Spamming would just slow the player down.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm not completely sure whether I like the jump timing challenge in NS2. It puts even more pressure to the engine running silky smooth. For example I don't want to be having the worry about FPS drops messing up my timing when I'm charging a huge firefight.
I'm fine with the timing challenges if the engine can handle everything smoothly on average system, but if there's any doubt of performance I'd rather just go for the Quake-style pogojump where pressing down jump midair times your next jump automatically. It seems like a surefire way that doesn't put even more pressure to the performance.
That said, WTH is with the talk of immersion? Its about the game-play pure and simple.
Look at TF2, classes like demoman have learning curves extending well past 1000 hours.
You can learn most NS2 classes in 10 hours.
That's a problem. It means the game will get boring fast. It needs to be fixed. Bhop is just one possible solution that needs to be played with.
Anyone who says otherwise is obviously a nub.
/sarcasm
This was directly addressed in the OP. It is not on topic.
<!--quoteo(post=1881995:date=Oct 25 2011, 08:21 PM:name=_Thresh_)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (_Thresh_ @ Oct 25 2011, 08:21 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1881995"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->This is about some-one looking to mod a skill based movement iteration. The bhop protests can safely be called off. That said, WTH is with the talk of immersion? Its about the game-play pure and simple.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Exactly. But immersion is a factor with any feature. It is about gameplay, but also about fitting gameplay elements in context logically instead of just shoving them into the game world haphazardly.
I think my bhop formulation would work for aliens as well as the human team. But I also like the currently in-development "wall-hop" feature that UW is working on for skulks.
Should add a crouch functionality in, so if you crouch while in air, it increases your air acceleration.
Anyone who says otherwise is obviously a nub.
/sarcasm<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
lol +1 to that statement.