Kouji_SanSr. Hινε UÏкεεÏεг - EUPT DeputyThe NetherlandsJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
It will probably be easier to mod for, because Spark is built from the groud up to be modable as one of their goals for the engine. You can already do a helluva lot in Lua alone apparently
I'm wondering about cheats tho. There will be some sort of anti cheat, right? or is there an anti cheat already? I haven't seen many cheaters in NS2 YET, but there could be much more after release.
<!--quoteo(post=1880061:date=Oct 15 2011, 10:22 PM:name=Kouji_San)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kouji_San @ Oct 15 2011, 10:22 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1880061"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Currently there are no consistency checks apart from some servers running checks on some render related console commands...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> They don't even do that, but rather spam a command that forces the renderer to switch back to it's normal mode. There's a serious lack of consistency\anti-cheating, but it'll likely be resolved before long.
As far as comparing NS2 (ea. Spark) to HL (both Gldsource and Source) in terms of modability, I think the source-engines would come up on top. Yes there is all of the game-logic (and large portions of the game-fundamentals) freely available in Lua for NS2, but there are still things inside the engine you just can't get to.
The biggest number of active players I ever saw was 67 some day ago. And the number of high actives are around 50. So the chances of cheaters are very low and even if there is an aumbotter I don't really think he gets a big advantage at this stage of the game. Also detecting those players as soon as 1. Person view goes online and in NS2 Fade>Aimbot. Yeah there are other forms of cheats but i hope VAC can handel them. Big advantage of NS2 it is steam only that means you need a steam account. If you are catched cheating you will be banned by Steam_ID on all steam servers using VAC/Steambanns. Any game you have on this account is banned from VAC servers.
So it's to risky to cheat, not like Cheating Death that just blocked your movement, as soon as NS2 is ready for VAC2. Hope someone will do a script for taking random screens like in punkbuster, would help to detect premium cheats.
Like they said, it is already very moddable through Lua. But there is also some disadvantages compared to source, as we dont have much access to modding spark itself. Hopefully they will let us have the ability to control enough through Lua when its done though, for whatever mod you are thinking of doing.
I think I heard somewhere that it will be possible to get sparks source code and mod it when its done, but that it will cost a bit. Not sure where I heard it or who said it though...
As I understand the idea is that the engine itself is predefined, but everything above the renderer itself is controlled by lua. So you could build any game you want as long as it doesn't require any engine changes.
So, basically, you could create any game based on the unreal 3 engine on spark, more or less. Least I assume that's the idea.
<!--quoteo(post=1880071:date=Oct 16 2011, 08:12 AM:name=Floodinator)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Floodinator @ Oct 16 2011, 08:12 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1880071"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Any game you have on this account is banned from VAC servers<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Incorrect.
VAC Bans the game engine, all games that use the same engine are completely blocked on VAC servers, but still playable on non-VAC servers. EG. If you play Counter-Strike: Source and get banned you cannot play any other Source game, but you wont be blocked from playing any other game(+VAC, Same account) that does not use Source engine on your steam account.
Tools certainly seem better than source. The level editor is a bit infantile at the moment, needs a lot more features, but the builder application is certainly a million times better than the source approach, which is a throwback to the early 90's
You actually have to write batch scripts and use the command line to send jobs to the compiler. You have to do that for the level editor as well, but it at least comes with a GUI to automate it somewhat.
It isn't difficult I guess but it's still stupidly annoying when you mostly just want to do the same thing over and over for different models replacing a few pathnames each time.
<!--quoteo(post=1880141:date=Oct 16 2011, 01:33 PM:name=MOOtant)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MOOtant @ Oct 16 2011, 01:33 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1880141"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Although many won't agree I'll say that I like C (maybe even C++) a lot more than Lua.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm with you there. LUA brings a lot more problems to the table.
ya i quite like the content tools, builder is nice, and just being able to export as as standard DAE file is really nice, way better the screwing around with valves stupid smd format, which is a ###### plug-in for maya. (but i guess that is the way all modern engines do it now, either use Collada DAE or AutoDesk FBX for getting stuff in engine.)
and builder is nice to have, but i do wish we could just use c++ or use a C like language like what epic did with unreal-script.
the level editor has 1 huge upside to which is having editable keys, i can make the keys more similar to my 3d package which really helps speed and workflow and that it works more like modeling app than hammer or unrealeditor does which is very nice.
oh and i got a question about builder, is there a way to list filetyps it wont try and build, when i make textures instead of working my diffuse, emmisve, spec, gloss, and normals in separate psd's, i tend to have them all in 1 psd, and use a script called vtools to export out all my top level layer groups as targa images, and builder keep converting the psd and the targa's to dds instead of just the targas.
VAC Bans the game engine, all games that use the same engine are completely blocked on VAC servers, but still playable on non-VAC servers. EG. If you play Counter-Strike: Source and get banned you cannot play any other Source game, but you wont be blocked from playing any other game(+VAC, Same account) that does not use Source engine on your steam account.
It use to be, ban via Steam ID/Account.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Thats what I said. You will be banned on VAC servers by you steam_id. But NS2 will use VAC so your steam_id is used for NS2. Also MW2 uses VAC like most of the Steamworks compatible games. Didn't know it was same engine only a global VAC steam_id ban would be better then.
Comments
They don't even do that, but rather spam a command that forces the renderer to switch back to it's normal mode. There's a serious lack of consistency\anti-cheating, but it'll likely be resolved before long.
As far as comparing NS2 (ea. Spark) to HL (both Gldsource and Source) in terms of modability, I think the source-engines would come up on top. Yes there is all of the game-logic (and large portions of the game-fundamentals) freely available in Lua for NS2, but there are still things inside the engine you just can't get to.
And the number of high actives are around 50. So the chances of cheaters are very low and even if there is an aumbotter I don't really think he gets a big advantage at this stage of the game.
Also detecting those players as soon as 1. Person view goes online and in NS2 Fade>Aimbot.
Yeah there are other forms of cheats but i hope VAC can handel them.
Big advantage of NS2 it is steam only that means you need a steam account. If you are catched cheating you will be banned by Steam_ID on all steam servers using VAC/Steambanns. Any game you have on this account is banned from VAC servers.
So it's to risky to cheat, not like Cheating Death that just blocked your movement, as soon as NS2 is ready for VAC2. Hope someone will do a script for taking random screens like in punkbuster, would help to detect premium cheats.
But there is also some disadvantages compared to source, as we dont have much access to modding spark itself. Hopefully they will let us have the ability to control enough through Lua when its done though, for whatever mod you are thinking of doing.
I think I heard somewhere that it will be possible to get sparks source code and mod it when its done, but that it will cost a bit. Not sure where I heard it or who said it though...
So, basically, you could create any game based on the unreal 3 engine on spark, more or less. Least I assume that's the idea.
..and the Engine is capable of First Person Shooters as of real-time strategy games.
So I guess there is little to no need to change the engine itself.
Incorrect.
VAC Bans the game engine, all games that use the same engine are completely blocked on VAC servers, but still playable on non-VAC servers.
EG. If you play Counter-Strike: Source and get banned you cannot play any other Source game, but you wont be blocked from playing any other game(+VAC, Same account) that does not use Source engine on your steam account.
It use to be, ban via Steam ID/Account.
How moddable will NS2 be as a game? would it it be comparable to how the Half Life 1 and Source engine are now?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
it's easier than source in my opinion
You actually have to write batch scripts and use the command line to send jobs to the compiler. You have to do that for the level editor as well, but it at least comes with a GUI to automate it somewhat.
It isn't difficult I guess but it's still stupidly annoying when you mostly just want to do the same thing over and over for different models replacing a few pathnames each time.
I'm with you there. LUA brings a lot more problems to the table.
and builder is nice to have, but i do wish we could just use c++ or use a C like language like what epic did with unreal-script.
the level editor has 1 huge upside to which is having editable keys, i can make the keys more similar to my 3d package which really helps speed and workflow and that it works more like modeling app than hammer or unrealeditor does which is very nice.
oh and i got a question about builder, is there a way to list filetyps it wont try and build, when i make textures instead of working my diffuse, emmisve, spec, gloss, and normals in separate psd's, i tend to have them all in 1 psd, and use a script called vtools to export out all my top level layer groups as targa images, and builder keep converting the psd and the targa's to dds instead of just the targas.
VAC Bans the game engine, all games that use the same engine are completely blocked on VAC servers, but still playable on non-VAC servers.
EG. If you play Counter-Strike: Source and get banned you cannot play any other Source game, but you wont be blocked from playing any other game(+VAC, Same account) that does not use Source engine on your steam account.
It use to be, ban via Steam ID/Account.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Thats what I said. You will be banned on VAC servers by you steam_id. But NS2 will use VAC so your steam_id is used for NS2. Also MW2 uses VAC like most of the Steamworks compatible games. Didn't know it was same engine only a global VAC steam_id ban would be better then.