<!--quoteo(post=1877480:date=Sep 29 2011, 08:13 PM:name=Techercizer)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Techercizer @ Sep 29 2011, 08:13 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1877480"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->That's what Kharaa bioforms area; the hive's defenses (and tools).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> In terms of gameplay that makes perfect sense. But if you think about it, you probably cannot come up with any organism in the real world that does not have some way of protecting itself from predators or the environment.
<!--quoteo(post=1877481:date=Sep 29 2011, 07:39 PM:name=Hybridclaw)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Hybridclaw @ Sep 29 2011, 07:39 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1877481"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->In terms of gameplay that makes perfect sense. But if you think about it, you probably cannot come up with any organism in the real world that does not have some way of protecting itself from predators or the environment.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm pretty sure algae has few-to-no defensive measures to speak of. It just grows and grows until it reaches huge masses, and if a mass is destroyed, the algae just grows back, or keeps growing somewhere else. Not unlike Kharaa bacterium. Also, if you think about it, you can't come up against the Kharaa in the real world.
<!--quoteo(post=1877488:date=Sep 29 2011, 09:28 PM:name=Techercizer)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Techercizer @ Sep 29 2011, 09:28 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1877488"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Also, if you think about it, you can't come up against the Kharaa in the real world.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well that takes all of the fun out of this discussion and completely invalidates everything that I say. So I’m going to ignore it.
^_^
Actually algae (and many another simple life forms ie: bacteria, fungi, ect.) can group together with and form a special colony called a biofilm. All the organisms in the biofilm become more resistant to environmental stresses.
The concept actually of biofilms fits in very well to the natural selection lore. Here’s an excerpt from the NS1 manual: “All of these bacteria are in contact with one another, sharing data on their environment, and triggering responses to stimuli (like energy sources, or danger). They form a network, called the Bacterium.†Source: <a href="http://3-pg.com/urd/manual/alien_bacterium.html" target="_blank">http://3-pg.com/urd/manual/alien_bacterium.html</a>
In a real life biofilm, organisms are able to communicate with each other in order to help each other survive by sharing genes and signaling each other to produce different proteins.
On a side note, I would really enjoy writing some lore on natural selection.
<!--quoteo(post=1877489:date=Sep 29 2011, 09:01 PM:name=Hybridclaw)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Hybridclaw @ Sep 29 2011, 09:01 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1877489"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The concept actually of biofilms fits in very well to the natural selection lore. Here’s an excerpt from the NS1 manual: “All of these bacteria are in contact with one another, sharing data on their environment, and triggering responses to stimuli (like energy sources, or danger). They form a network, called the Bacterium.†Source: <a href="http://3-pg.com/urd/manual/alien_bacterium.html" target="_blank">http://3-pg.com/urd/manual/alien_bacterium.html</a>
In a real life biofilm, organisms are able to communicate with each other in order to help each other survive by sharing genes and signaling each other to produce different proteins.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> But that's the point, isn't it? Algae biofilms don't have any "defensive measures" per-se, their sheer numbers and natural ability to regenerate, regrow, and support each other are enough to ensure their survival most of the time. The times they don't survive, for whatever reason, they just keep growing somewhere else. Just like the Hive, which constantly regenerates health and coordinates with the Bacterium. If there wasn't Marine Nanotech holding the Bacterium in nano-gridlock, the Kharaa infestation would be almost impossible to remove, since it would just keep growing and growing. With that in mind, the Hive doesn't need any specific way to "defend" itself, in my opinion. It's supposed to defend itself through rapid growth and reproduction, which is hindered by nanotech.
To be fair my knowledge on algae biofilms is limited, all I know is that they can form one. I know more about bacteria (and some fungi) that form biofilms.
Organisms in a biofilm behave differently that their free living counter parts. When they group together in a biofilm they can secrete sticky substances to shield themselves from the environment, including the immune system. They can also transfer genes and secrete proteins to protect themselves from antibiotics.
For instance if you had a petri dish full of free living microbes and you put in some antibiotics most of them would die. But if the very same microbes were to group together and form a biofilm, then the same antibiotic was administered at the same dose, the majority would survive. The survival is not based on antibiotic resistance but the formation of the biofilm. Thus the formation of the biofilm can be seen as a defensive measure.
With regard to marine Nano-Tech, well you got me there. I have no idea how any of that would factor into all of this.
I would assume that the hive would be more concerned with defending itself from the marines attacking it than defending itself the marine’s Nano-Tech. This is because the marines are a bigger threat and marine Nano-Tech does not seem to have the ability to kill and already established hive.
And that is why the hive should have some method of defending itself from a marine attack.
<!--quoteo(post=1877579:date=Sep 30 2011, 06:05 PM:name=Hybridclaw)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Hybridclaw @ Sep 30 2011, 06:05 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1877579"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->To be fair my knowledge on algae biofilms is limited, all I know is that they can form one. I know more about bacteria (and some fungi) that form biofilms.
Organisms in a biofilm behave differently that their free living counter parts. When they group together in a biofilm they can secrete sticky substances to shield themselves from the environment, including the immune system. They can also transfer genes and secrete proteins to protect themselves from antibiotics.
For instance if you had a petri dish full of free living microbes and you put in some antibiotics most of them would die. But if the very same microbes were to group together and form a biofilm, then the same antibiotic was administered at the same dose, the majority would survive. The survival is not based on antibiotic resistance but the formation of the biofilm. Thus the formation of the biofilm can be seen as a defensive measure.
With regard to marine Nano-Tech, well you got me there. I have no idea how any of that would factor into all of this.
I would assume that the hive would be more concerned with defending itself from the marines attacking it than defending itself the marine’s Nano-Tech. This is because the marines are a bigger threat and marine Nano-Tech does not seem to have the ability to kill and already established hive.
And that is why the hive should have some method of defending itself from a marine attack.
^_^<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> There's an established canon for why Kharaa bacterium only spread out from the hive, and for why Marine nanotech doesn't just eat all of the Kharaa; it's called nano-gridlock, and it basically means that most of the Kharaa Bacterium and Marine Nanotech are busy fighting each other for control of the area. The hive is too busy fighting off trillions of automated machines attacking it from every surface to deal with something as esoteric as a Marine; Kharaa Biofroms are created to handle that sort of thing sort-of-on-their-own. Likewise, Marine Nanotech has its hands full just stopping the Kharaa from growing/absorbing the entire ship, so it isn't able to spare much time to help kill bioforms (which is what Frontiersman squads are sent in to do).
Marine structures that hit infestation, and Kharaa buildings with no DI support, however, lose their side's nano-scale backup, and start to get destroyed. I don't know if UWE is planning to allow infestation in its final form to destroy buildings, but if they decide not to, they can just flavour it as having all Frontiersman structures hardened with internal nano-defenses.
<!--quoteo(post=1877623:date=Sep 30 2011, 08:53 PM:name=Hybridclaw)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Hybridclaw @ Sep 30 2011, 08:53 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1877623"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It sounds like the marine Nano-Tech has given the hive AIDS.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> It's more like two armies are busy locked in eternal combat, forever receiving reinforcements and never tiring or giving ground. Meanwhile, the spies and generals of both sides are busy deploying spec-ops teams or assassinating their counterparts.
Comments
In terms of gameplay that makes perfect sense. But if you think about it, you probably cannot come up with any organism in the real world that does not have some way of protecting itself from predators or the environment.
I'm pretty sure algae has few-to-no defensive measures to speak of. It just grows and grows until it reaches huge masses, and if a mass is destroyed, the algae just grows back, or keeps growing somewhere else. Not unlike Kharaa bacterium. Also, if you think about it, you can't come up against the Kharaa in the real world.
Well that takes all of the fun out of this discussion and completely invalidates everything that I say. So I’m going to ignore it.
^_^
Actually algae (and many another simple life forms ie: bacteria, fungi, ect.) can group together with and form a special colony called a biofilm. All the organisms in the biofilm become more resistant to environmental stresses.
The concept actually of biofilms fits in very well to the natural selection lore. Here’s an excerpt from the NS1 manual:
“All of these bacteria are in contact with one another, sharing data on their environment, and triggering responses to stimuli (like energy sources, or danger). They form a network, called the Bacterium.â€
Source: <a href="http://3-pg.com/urd/manual/alien_bacterium.html" target="_blank">http://3-pg.com/urd/manual/alien_bacterium.html</a>
In a real life biofilm, organisms are able to communicate with each other in order to help each other survive by sharing genes and signaling each other to produce different proteins.
On a side note, I would really enjoy writing some lore on natural selection.
“All of these bacteria are in contact with one another, sharing data on their environment, and triggering responses to stimuli (like energy sources, or danger). They form a network, called the Bacterium.â€
Source: <a href="http://3-pg.com/urd/manual/alien_bacterium.html" target="_blank">http://3-pg.com/urd/manual/alien_bacterium.html</a>
In a real life biofilm, organisms are able to communicate with each other in order to help each other survive by sharing genes and signaling each other to produce different proteins.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
But that's the point, isn't it? Algae biofilms don't have any "defensive measures" per-se, their sheer numbers and natural ability to regenerate, regrow, and support each other are enough to ensure their survival most of the time. The times they don't survive, for whatever reason, they just keep growing somewhere else. Just like the Hive, which constantly regenerates health and coordinates with the Bacterium. If there wasn't Marine Nanotech holding the Bacterium in nano-gridlock, the Kharaa infestation would be almost impossible to remove, since it would just keep growing and growing. With that in mind, the Hive doesn't need any specific way to "defend" itself, in my opinion. It's supposed to defend itself through rapid growth and reproduction, which is hindered by nanotech.
Organisms in a biofilm behave differently that their free living counter parts. When they group together in a biofilm they can secrete sticky substances to shield themselves from the environment, including the immune system. They can also transfer genes and secrete proteins to protect themselves from antibiotics.
For instance if you had a petri dish full of free living microbes and you put in some antibiotics most of them would die. But if the very same microbes were to group together and form a biofilm, then the same antibiotic was administered at the same dose, the majority would survive. The survival is not based on antibiotic resistance but the formation of the biofilm. Thus the formation of the biofilm can be seen as a defensive measure.
With regard to marine Nano-Tech, well you got me there. I have no idea how any of that would factor into all of this.
I would assume that the hive would be more concerned with defending itself from the marines attacking it than defending itself the marine’s Nano-Tech. This is because the marines are a bigger threat and marine Nano-Tech does not seem to have the ability to kill and already established hive.
And that is why the hive should have some method of defending itself from a marine attack.
^_^
Organisms in a biofilm behave differently that their free living counter parts. When they group together in a biofilm they can secrete sticky substances to shield themselves from the environment, including the immune system. They can also transfer genes and secrete proteins to protect themselves from antibiotics.
For instance if you had a petri dish full of free living microbes and you put in some antibiotics most of them would die. But if the very same microbes were to group together and form a biofilm, then the same antibiotic was administered at the same dose, the majority would survive. The survival is not based on antibiotic resistance but the formation of the biofilm. Thus the formation of the biofilm can be seen as a defensive measure.
With regard to marine Nano-Tech, well you got me there. I have no idea how any of that would factor into all of this.
I would assume that the hive would be more concerned with defending itself from the marines attacking it than defending itself the marine’s Nano-Tech. This is because the marines are a bigger threat and marine Nano-Tech does not seem to have the ability to kill and already established hive.
And that is why the hive should have some method of defending itself from a marine attack.
^_^<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
There's an established canon for why Kharaa bacterium only spread out from the hive, and for why Marine nanotech doesn't just eat all of the Kharaa; it's called nano-gridlock, and it basically means that most of the Kharaa Bacterium and Marine Nanotech are busy fighting each other for control of the area. The hive is too busy fighting off trillions of automated machines attacking it from every surface to deal with something as esoteric as a Marine; Kharaa Biofroms are created to handle that sort of thing sort-of-on-their-own. Likewise, Marine Nanotech has its hands full just stopping the Kharaa from growing/absorbing the entire ship, so it isn't able to spare much time to help kill bioforms (which is what Frontiersman squads are sent in to do).
Marine structures that hit infestation, and Kharaa buildings with no DI support, however, lose their side's nano-scale backup, and start to get destroyed. I don't know if UWE is planning to allow infestation in its final form to destroy buildings, but if they decide not to, they can just flavour it as having all Frontiersman structures hardened with internal nano-defenses.
It's more like two armies are busy locked in eternal combat, forever receiving reinforcements and never tiring or giving ground. Meanwhile, the spies and generals of both sides are busy deploying spec-ops teams or assassinating their counterparts.