You're right. Our main focus is getting the overall combat "feel" right. This is a massive task. It encompasses server performance, client performance, networking efficiency, networking structure, prediction, lag-compensation, weapon feel, feedback and game balance.
So the short answer is - we're on top of this but it's not going to get better overnight. If you're super-frustrated, I won't be offended if you took a break for a bit, knowing you'll be back when everything is working better. All I can say is that the nature of the beta and it's just going to take some more time!
We won't stop until it feels great.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> +1. On a sidenote, hope you guys can find some good additional talent to add to the team! Having any luck hiring anyone?
Apart from the slight FPS drop, I'm really enjoying a lot of the changes in this patch.
My 2 major gripes with the game that would greatly improve the whole experience would be: -Fade needs a cost to initiate blink to stop blink spam, the current model now that allows non-stop spamming with no consequences makes them nearly impossible to kill without a group of marines + flamers. If marines don't have flamers researched, tough luck, you're going to get raped... if a group of 3-4 moves out with GL's/shotties but no flamers you're going to get picked off again. I feel that 3-4 marines working as a group, even with LMG, should pose a threat to ONE single fade, atm there's no chance.
-Turret spam, ruins the whole experience for aliens, you simply can't take out a location that's fully surrounded with turrets/armoury/PG. I have a lot of faith in you guys but can you please just address this subject fully in the next patch because it's ruining any type of endgame for aliens. Marines can simply fire 2-3 grenades in a few seconds to clear out hydras where as aliens can't do ANYTHING. Why can a marine kill 2-3 hydras in under 5 seconds but a gorge can't do the same to turrets?
The OP fade is annoying but I have never quit a game because of it. Turret spam on the other hand has been responsible for 100% of quits, any other FPS I normally do 3-4 hour sessions but after 90 minutes of turret spam my head just can't take it anymore and I rage.
I just get angry and frustrated everytime I read the progress tracker, all I want is turret spam to be fixed because it's ruining the whole game for me.
<!--quoteo(post=1871889:date=Aug 29 2011, 06:03 PM:name=Flayra)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Flayra @ Aug 29 2011, 06:03 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1871889"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->We won't stop until it feels great.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Thanks for getting back. Hope I didn't bum you out at all, I'm glad to hear you guys are on the case, its just that now I've had a taste of it, I can't wait damn it!
<!--quoteo(post=1871937:date=Aug 29 2011, 04:35 PM:name=Quovatis)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Quovatis @ Aug 29 2011, 04:35 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1871937"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Aliens can't hear the beacon sound any more in 185. You attack base and *poof* the whole team is surrounding you without any warning.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> That's wierd, I hear them:s
I just played a small 4v4 game on HBZ and performance was much better for me. I was getting almost double the FPS (from 13 avg to 30). I guess in smaller games there is less hit-detection calculations going on.
QuovatisTeam InversionJoin Date: 2010-01-26Member: 70321Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
Can someone else confirm that Frenzy is not working? I swear it's completely broken, as I don't think I'm getting any health back from kills any longer. Worked in 184, but not 185.
<!--quoteo(post=1872017:date=Aug 30 2011, 05:42 AM:name=Quovatis)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Quovatis @ Aug 30 2011, 05:42 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1872017"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Can someone else confirm that Frenzy is not working? I swear it's completely broken, as I don't think I'm getting any health back from kills any longer. Worked in 184, but not 185.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
twilitebluebug stalkerJoin Date: 2003-02-04Member: 13116Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
edited August 2011
It looks like the code behind Frenzy has disappeared, as the devs are reworking it.
IMO Frenzy should have its minimum healing increased (currently 10), and scale off the maximum health of the lifeform. Having Frenzy heal based off damage over-kill is making it quite unreliable, and rather useless on lifeforms that deal low damage-per-hit.
<!--quoteo(post=1872024:date=Aug 30 2011, 01:04 AM:name=Wilson)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Wilson @ Aug 30 2011, 01:04 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1872024"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Just had a bug where we destroyed the cysts but the infestation stayed.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Yea ive seen this bug in reactor room.
<!--quoteo(post=1871872:date=Aug 29 2011, 10:45 AM:name=Smasher)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Smasher @ Aug 29 2011, 10:45 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1871872"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->or create a local game, exit, go to server list. Might also work.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This worked thanks.
I have noticed the game seems alot slower for me since 185 and I want to see if I can improve the gameplay.
What I am after is running it in windowed mode at around 1280x800 or more on medium. I have a Dell 3008 WFP monitor and would like the windowed 1280 x 800 screen to maximise to the panel. Is there any way to do this with 185? Im not sure why the system has slowed down alot since I upgraded to 185. Perhaps it was always this fast and I just didnt notice it till now.
Ive tried on empty servers and I get alot of slowdown in windowed mode.
Also, noticing quite alot of crashes when I swtich modes between windowed and full screen.
<!--quoteo(post=1872017:date=Aug 30 2011, 05:42 AM:name=Quovatis)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Quovatis @ Aug 30 2011, 05:42 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1872017"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Can someone else confirm that Frenzy is not working? I swear it's completely broken, as I don't think I'm getting any health back from kills any longer. Worked in 184, but not 185.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Jup. Was to tired to write it yesterday. I am not sure but swarm seems also bugged. It plays the sound but I don't see dealing more damage. And btw MACs can build even when destroyed (they build till animation is over and then explode).
1-2 times I tried sending 20+ drifters to the rine base, and called it the "Mass Roach Approach" I didn't do much exept slow down my client quite a bit. I don't know if it slowed the game for everyone, really.
Maybe the amount of total roaches should be limited before some freak sends an army of 300! I bet there is a technical limit already, but it may be far too high
QuovatisTeam InversionJoin Date: 2010-01-26Member: 70321Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
<!--quoteo(post=1872163:date=Aug 30 2011, 03:07 PM:name=Melancor)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Melancor @ Aug 30 2011, 03:07 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1872163"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->1-2 times I tried sending 20+ drifters to the rine base, and called it the "Mass Roach Approach" I didn't do much exept slow down my client quite a bit. I don't know if it slowed the game for everyone, really.
Maybe the amount of total roaches should be limited before some freak sends an army of 300! I bet there is a technical limit already, but it may be far too high<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah, it kills the server, but also pretty useless. One grenade can kill all 50 of your drifters. OTOH 50 MACs is pretty much a guaranteed win.
twilitebluebug stalkerJoin Date: 2003-02-04Member: 13116Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
edited August 2011
<!--quoteo(post=1872171:date=Aug 30 2011, 02:32 PM:name=Quovatis)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Quovatis @ Aug 30 2011, 02:32 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1872171"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Yeah, it kills the server, but also pretty useless. One grenade can kill all 50 of your drifters. OTOH 50 MACs is pretty much a guaranteed win.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Not on my watch! Fear the fury of the Bile Bomb squad!
AI units really really really need to be capped in numbers. I can't stress it enough.
I just had the best match in my whole NS2 career ;P I noticed some "Defending 30+" just show up as I killed an attacking alien, right where it was and not directly into the HUD, pretty cool!
twilitebluebug stalkerJoin Date: 2003-02-04Member: 13116Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
edited September 2011
<!--quoteo(post=1873247:date=Sep 5 2011, 04:50 PM:name=Koruyo)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Koruyo @ Sep 5 2011, 04:50 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1873247"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Small fade adjustments are still needed if you ask me...
- Delay until you can attack after blink ~ +0.5-1s (atm the first hit after blink is so fast i think you arent even visible the time it already hits)
- Activation cost (i can still spam with 0 energy, at least if not on fire)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I'm afraid that would turn Fade into an expensive Skulk.
Currently, a Fade cannot blink for 0.65 seconds after it attacks. If it attacks twice, that's 1.3 seconds (or 1.95sec for 3 attacks), which is enough time for Marines to deal significant damage to it. Considering it takes up to 3 Swipes to kill a Marine with full armor upgrade, I think the Fade's powers are quite balanced in B185.
A fade that jumps into the face of a marine (or group of marines) without playing smart - should be punished*... I use blink to dodge shots, and dont go into redard kill mode and follow a marine for a few seconds to kill it. (if marines look at me - i blink for a second to reposition myself - if a group of marines, i try to waste their ammo until a few are reloading until i attack...) You are either an assassin that has to play smart, or a tank, atm i feel like a tanky assassin...
Currently you can play like a retard and still come out alive, and if frenzy works again this doesnt get better.
Fade is still easymode.
Maybe the delay stuff is too much, but these are just suggestions to make it a bit more challenging...
*Think about ns1 - there was no godmode blink that also made you invisible... In NS2 you can jump around in groups of marines just to troll them.
Just out of interest, how many SG shots does it take to kill a fade? The more you nerf the fade, the more the fade is hurting once a few good marines are aiming at him and the hitreg and performance are any good. It's not like you wouldn't be hurting even with the tanky NS1 fade against a few good marines.
Kouji_SanSr. Hινε UÏкεεÏεг - EUPT DeputyThe NetherlandsJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
<!--quoteo(post=1873785:date=Sep 8 2011, 09:28 PM:name=Melancor)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Melancor @ Sep 8 2011, 09:28 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1873785"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Are dead players supposed to be able to free-look AND give LOS? Particularly as alien, who can stay dead as long as they wish.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> It's not a feature, it's a lack of features :)
<!--quoteo(post=1873785:date=Sep 8 2011, 09:28 PM:name=Melancor)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Melancor @ Sep 8 2011, 09:28 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1873785"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Are dead players supposed to be able to free-look AND give LOS? Particularly as alien, who can stay dead as long as they wish.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> That's already been fixed, and should be in the next patch. Dead Alien player views are locked to the eggs they are spawning from.
Comments
+1
You're right. Our main focus is getting the overall combat "feel" right. This is a massive task. It encompasses server performance, client performance, networking efficiency, networking structure, prediction, lag-compensation, weapon feel, feedback and game balance.
So the short answer is - we're on top of this but it's not going to get better overnight. If you're super-frustrated, I won't be offended if you took a break for a bit, knowing you'll be back when everything is working better. All I can say is that the nature of the beta and it's just going to take some more time!
We won't stop until it feels great.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
+1. On a sidenote, hope you guys can find some good additional talent to add to the team! Having any luck hiring anyone?
My 2 major gripes with the game that would greatly improve the whole experience would be:
-Fade needs a cost to initiate blink to stop blink spam, the current model now that allows non-stop spamming with no consequences makes them nearly impossible to kill without a group of marines + flamers. If marines don't have flamers researched, tough luck, you're going to get raped... if a group of 3-4 moves out with GL's/shotties but no flamers you're going to get picked off again. I feel that 3-4 marines working as a group, even with LMG, should pose a threat to ONE single fade, atm there's no chance.
-Turret spam, ruins the whole experience for aliens, you simply can't take out a location that's fully surrounded with turrets/armoury/PG. I have a lot of faith in you guys but can you please just address this subject fully in the next patch because it's ruining any type of endgame for aliens. Marines can simply fire 2-3 grenades in a few seconds to clear out hydras where as aliens can't do ANYTHING. Why can a marine kill 2-3 hydras in under 5 seconds but a gorge can't do the same to turrets?
The OP fade is annoying but I have never quit a game because of it. Turret spam on the other hand has been responsible for 100% of quits, any other FPS I normally do 3-4 hour sessions but after 90 minutes of turret spam my head just can't take it anymore and I rage.
I just get angry and frustrated everytime I read the progress tracker, all I want is turret spam to be fixed because it's ruining the whole game for me.
/rage
Thanks for getting back.
Hope I didn't bum you out at all, I'm glad to hear you guys are on the case, its just that now I've had a taste of it, I can't wait damn it!
That's wierd, I hear them:s
Confirmed.
IMO Frenzy should have its minimum healing increased (currently 10), and scale off the maximum health of the lifeform. Having Frenzy heal based off damage over-kill is making it quite unreliable, and rather useless on lifeforms that deal low damage-per-hit.
Yea ive seen this bug in reactor room.
This worked thanks.
I have noticed the game seems alot slower for me since 185 and I want to see if I can improve the gameplay.
What I am after is running it in windowed mode at around 1280x800 or more on medium. I have a Dell 3008 WFP monitor and would like the windowed 1280 x 800 screen to maximise to the panel. Is there any way to do this with 185? Im not sure why the system has slowed down alot since I upgraded to 185. Perhaps it was always this fast and I just didnt notice it till now.
Ive tried on empty servers and I get alot of slowdown in windowed mode.
Also, noticing quite alot of crashes when I swtich modes between windowed and full screen.
GPX is a 8970 with an i5 CPU.
Thanks
iain
Jup. Was to tired to write it yesterday.
I am not sure but swarm seems also bugged. It plays the sound but I don't see dealing more damage.
And btw MACs can build even when destroyed (they build till animation is over and then explode).
+1
Keep up the good work !
I took your advice a little while go :p
Took a break from NS2 but I will be back !
I didn't do much exept slow down my client quite a bit. I don't know if it slowed the game for everyone, really.
Maybe the amount of total roaches should be limited before some freak sends an army of 300!
I bet there is a technical limit already, but it may be far too high
I didn't do much exept slow down my client quite a bit. I don't know if it slowed the game for everyone, really.
Maybe the amount of total roaches should be limited before some freak sends an army of 300!
I bet there is a technical limit already, but it may be far too high<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah, it kills the server, but also pretty useless. One grenade can kill all 50 of your drifters. OTOH 50 MACs is pretty much a guaranteed win.
Not on my watch! Fear the fury of the Bile Bomb squad!
AI units really really really need to be capped in numbers. I can't stress it enough.
I noticed some "Defending 30+" just show up as I killed an attacking alien, right where it was and not directly into the HUD, pretty cool!
- Delay until you can attack after blink ~ +0.5-1s (atm the first hit after blink is so fast i think you arent even visible the time it already hits)
- Activation cost (i can still spam with 0 energy, at least if not on fire)
- Delay until you can attack after blink ~ +0.5-1s (atm the first hit after blink is so fast i think you arent even visible the time it already hits)
- Activation cost (i can still spam with 0 energy, at least if not on fire)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm afraid that would turn Fade into an expensive Skulk.
Currently, a Fade cannot blink for 0.65 seconds after it attacks. If it attacks twice, that's 1.3 seconds (or 1.95sec for 3 attacks), which is enough time for Marines to deal significant damage to it. Considering it takes up to 3 Swipes to kill a Marine with full armor upgrade, I think the Fade's powers are quite balanced in B185.
You are either an assassin that has to play smart, or a tank, atm i feel like a tanky assassin...
Currently you can play like a retard and still come out alive, and if frenzy works again this doesnt get better.
Fade is still easymode.
Maybe the delay stuff is too much, but these are just suggestions to make it a bit more challenging...
*Think about ns1 - there was no godmode blink that also made you invisible... In NS2 you can jump around in groups of marines just to troll them.
Thats why im not sure about the delay stuff.
It's not a feature, it's a lack of features :)
That's already been fixed, and should be in the next patch. Dead Alien player views are locked to the eggs they are spawning from.
--Cory