To be brief... A Fade isn't so much overpowered, as a group of Fades is definitely overpowered.
To say they're countered by marine organization and tactics but to assume that the aliens will not do the same is plain ignorance. Four properly equipped marines can drop a Fade, but 4 organized Fades can completely destroy a Marine team. They can drop 4 marines on entry and it's not often you find groups of marines larger than that.
Fades are strong, possible too much, but the real problem is the "Hive is complete, marines catch 4 fades..." problem.
They're too readily accessible, and once gained, the high resource cost is usually sustainable because of their considerable assassination skills.
Best I can think is that there be some sort of alien resource pool... like a cap of 1 Fade per hive... kinda stinks for players to lock off a class, but there's not really I nice way I can think of to prevent Marines from beings assaulted by a wave of Fades upon entry to Tier 2.
The current <b>real</b> counter to fades is to deny them a 2nd hive... which to be honest... isn't a good gameplay mechanic.
<!--quoteo(post=1870157:date=Aug 20 2011, 12:31 AM:name=PatriotBob)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (PatriotBob @ Aug 20 2011, 12:31 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1870157"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->To be brief... A Fade isn't so much overpowered, as a group of Fades is definitely overpowered.
To say they're countered by marine organization and tactics but to assume that the aliens will not do the same is plain ignorance. Four properly equipped marines can drop a Fade, but 4 organized Fades can completely destroy a Marine team. They can drop 4 marines on entry and it's not often you find groups of marines larger than that.
Fades are strong, possible too much, but the real problem is the "Hive is complete, marines catch 4 fades..." problem.
They're too readily accessible, and once gained, the high resource cost is usually sustainable because of their considerable assassination skills.
Best I can think is that there be some sort of alien resource pool... like a cap of 1 Fade per hive... kinda stinks for players to lock off a class, but there's not really I nice way I can think of to prevent Marines from beings assaulted by a wave of Fades upon entry to Tier 2.
The current <b>real</b> counter to fades is to deny them a 2nd hive... which to be honest... isn't a good gameplay mechanic.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->I totally agree with that.
Marine T2 doesn't equal Alien T2. And it shouldn't because aliens require hives for T2. Which forces marines to advance and attack hives instead of turtling; this is a core NS dynamic. Therefore, Alien T1 is actually like T1.5, and Alien T2 is actually like T2.5, as it should be.
<b>Balance doesn't mean symmetry, it means FUN through interesting strategic choices in different situations.</b>
The key to solving this is that marines can attack and disable multiple fades as well as they can attack one fade. Fades don't have this ability, so they actually can't work as well together as a bunch of marines can. If people take several roles in killing a fade, like flamethrowers keeping them on fire and trying not to get hit, Pistol marksmen taking down all their armor, shotguns and rifles attacking armorless fades, and grenade launchers killing fades trying to kill the flamethrower or fleeing, then it actually doesn't matter how many fades there are. They all have one role: kill the flamethrower, kill the grenade launcher, dodge enemy fire, and escape. If a bunch of fades crowd the flamethrower, the grenade launcher or another flamethrower can take care of them all as well as if it was only one fade. The 4 fade horror isn't actually that big of a deal
What you guys actually have a problem with is the fact that fades have a low skill cap. Once you learn how to time blinks and flank fast, you're as good a fade as any, while the necessary teamwork needed to take down a fade or a bunch of fades is still evolving. Once you have two fades, the strategy is the same as any greater number of fades. I think this is partly due to the fact that everyone decides to go fade, which can actually make the alien team lose. Everyone goes into a class that sucks at taking down buildings, and then they complain that marines are turret farming. They're exploiting the fade's weakness.
To increase the skill cap, the fade needs to get more complex - marine tech that deals with the advantages of fades, or additional fade moves/attributes with new pros and cons would be great. Until then, it would be nice if more fade players worked together more frequently with other classes.
I'm in favor of fades still being able to wipe out an entire squad, with balance changes just making it a bit harder to do so instead of weakening the fade's possibilities. In fact, I'd rather have no intervention at all, and just have the marine team learn advanced tactics and new skills the hard way how to counter them.
Comments
To say they're countered by marine organization and tactics but to assume that the aliens will not do the same is plain ignorance. Four properly equipped marines can drop a Fade, but 4 organized Fades can completely destroy a Marine team. They can drop 4 marines on entry and it's not often you find groups of marines larger than that.
Fades are strong, possible too much, but the real problem is the "Hive is complete, marines catch 4 fades..." problem.
They're too readily accessible, and once gained, the high resource cost is usually sustainable because of their considerable assassination skills.
Best I can think is that there be some sort of alien resource pool... like a cap of 1 Fade per hive... kinda stinks for players to lock off a class, but there's not really I nice way I can think of to prevent Marines from beings assaulted by a wave of Fades upon entry to Tier 2.
The current <b>real</b> counter to fades is to deny them a 2nd hive... which to be honest... isn't a good gameplay mechanic.
To say they're countered by marine organization and tactics but to assume that the aliens will not do the same is plain ignorance. Four properly equipped marines can drop a Fade, but 4 organized Fades can completely destroy a Marine team. They can drop 4 marines on entry and it's not often you find groups of marines larger than that.
Fades are strong, possible too much, but the real problem is the "Hive is complete, marines catch 4 fades..." problem.
They're too readily accessible, and once gained, the high resource cost is usually sustainable because of their considerable assassination skills.
Best I can think is that there be some sort of alien resource pool... like a cap of 1 Fade per hive... kinda stinks for players to lock off a class, but there's not really I nice way I can think of to prevent Marines from beings assaulted by a wave of Fades upon entry to Tier 2.
The current <b>real</b> counter to fades is to deny them a 2nd hive... which to be honest... isn't a good gameplay mechanic.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->I totally agree with that.
<b>Balance doesn't mean symmetry, it means FUN through interesting strategic choices in different situations.</b>
What you guys actually have a problem with is the fact that fades have a low skill cap. Once you learn how to time blinks and flank fast, you're as good a fade as any, while the necessary teamwork needed to take down a fade or a bunch of fades is still evolving. Once you have two fades, the strategy is the same as any greater number of fades. I think this is partly due to the fact that everyone decides to go fade, which can actually make the alien team lose. Everyone goes into a class that sucks at taking down buildings, and then they complain that marines are turret farming. They're exploiting the fade's weakness.
To increase the skill cap, the fade needs to get more complex - marine tech that deals with the advantages of fades, or additional fade moves/attributes with new pros and cons would be great. Until then, it would be nice if more fade players worked together more frequently with other classes.
I'm in favor of fades still being able to wipe out an entire squad, with balance changes just making it a bit harder to do so instead of weakening the fade's possibilities. In fact, I'd rather have no intervention at all, and just have the marine team learn advanced tactics and new skills the hard way how to counter them.