Maps need to be larger, triad22 attempting to acheive this?
vizioNz
InversionNS2.com Join Date: 2003-12-21 Member: 24595Members, Constellation, NS2 Playtester
InversionNS2.com Join Date: 2003-12-21 Member: 24595Members, Constellation, NS2 Playtester
So, after spending some time trying out just about every map currently available for NS2, I've come to the conclusion, are larger NS2 maps planned?
I'm hoping some map designers can answer a few questions I have:
<ol type='1'><li>Are the sizes of maps smaller currently due to performance or the complexity to develop them?</li><li>Are larger maps producing heavier load on servers which in theory, is why these maps aren't being produced?</li><li>With the concept of <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/news/2007/5/natural_selection_2_rail_car_concepts_1_of_4" target="_blank">Rail Cars</a> planned for NS2, I don't think a single map is capable of supporting this at the moment other than triad.</li><li>Are there larger maps in the works currently?</li><li>What kind of effort is involved in producing stable NS2 maps? (man hours; I want to scope out how long it would take to re-create some of the old classics)</li></ol>
I understand it's beta and there is a whole lot more to be implemented, I just wanted to get some feedback on the community on how they current feel on the map sizes of summit/tram/rockdown/triad/etc. and feedback from the developers on the difficultly on creating maps that have multiple locations the size of "Crevice" on Summit.
With the current sizes of the maps available, implementing jet packs will become a frustrating experience with how small most of the locations on current NS2 maps are. Navigatin the map with a Lerk and a JP are two totally different experiences and I feel that the Marines will be getting stuck on ceilings/random obstacles 90% of the time
I'm hoping some map designers can answer a few questions I have:
<ol type='1'><li>Are the sizes of maps smaller currently due to performance or the complexity to develop them?</li><li>Are larger maps producing heavier load on servers which in theory, is why these maps aren't being produced?</li><li>With the concept of <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/news/2007/5/natural_selection_2_rail_car_concepts_1_of_4" target="_blank">Rail Cars</a> planned for NS2, I don't think a single map is capable of supporting this at the moment other than triad.</li><li>Are there larger maps in the works currently?</li><li>What kind of effort is involved in producing stable NS2 maps? (man hours; I want to scope out how long it would take to re-create some of the old classics)</li></ol>
I understand it's beta and there is a whole lot more to be implemented, I just wanted to get some feedback on the community on how they current feel on the map sizes of summit/tram/rockdown/triad/etc. and feedback from the developers on the difficultly on creating maps that have multiple locations the size of "Crevice" on Summit.
With the current sizes of the maps available, implementing jet packs will become a frustrating experience with how small most of the locations on current NS2 maps are. Navigatin the map with a Lerk and a JP are two totally different experiences and I feel that the Marines will be getting stuck on ceilings/random obstacles 90% of the time
Comments
I see, well I sure hope some of the corridors in the current generation of maps are grown in size somehow...
Our 2 largest maps are Mineshaft and Docking, both quite a bit larger then either Tram or Summit. Tram is also getting some rework which will be extending it in size a little. Mainly extending some of the hallways and tunnel sections in a few places to push the start bases a bit further apart.
The larger sized maps do come with some issues, such as performance, as well as the additional time to develop them. The new occlusion system should help on the performance side, though. Mainly though, we want a variety of map sizes, to accommodate a range of player numbers. Docking and Mineshaft are geared more for the 20 and up player counts. Maps like Tram and Summit, and most likely the Refining map we are also working on, are meant for the 12-20 range. While Rockdown is just a test map and not intended to be an official one, we may end up keeping it around, with some modifications, for even smaller player numbers, though the smaller the maps get the more issues there are with Siege being overpowered, phasegates not as useful, etc.
Some of these other internal maps will have some nice large areas for jetpacking and lerk flying, as well.
Regarding how much effort goes into producing the official NS2 maps, the time is measured in years. Partly that is due to the current state of the tools, having only one environment artist creating all the level assets, and the game still being in a constant state of development and flux.
And finally, we have no current plans for working Rail Cars in NS2, at least for version 1.0.
--Cory
Rendering a large section of the main Tram tunnel is really not that much of an issue. The problem is that the current occlusion system does not work as well as it should, so often times its not just rendering the visible parts of the Tram tunnel, but also nearby rooms, and in some cases half of the rest of the map.
--Cory
anyways.....
In short, after the game is feature/performance complete you will see more and more maps of the ns1 size style and most likely will see an ns1 mod very quickly.
I personally have 2 levels near completion that will sport large travel times and are more closely suited for ns1 style game-play. At this time I have no clue as what is the best size after watching some of the competitive games and am sad to say "Clandestine" may be scraped in favor of the fascination for small fast paced maps or be stretched out a bit to fit ns1 game-play better.
My Opinion, and it's only an opinion.
Small maps are faced paced push hard quickly with very little strategy resulting in games ending without full tech upgrades. Larger maps seem to play out longer giving each team ample time to do covert strategic planning and will most likely see full tech upgrades.
EDIT: Poor grammar :(
i created 3 bigger rooms for a map of mine with some corridors and spend more then 100 hours on it. im not a fast and im not spending time efficiently, but im not slow either. it needs some time to create such a huge map. i bet that more then 300 hours were needed to get summit done, maybe 400.
The new maps are bigger then summit? ok thats 500 hours for me. ok im not sure who is mapping the official uwe maps. is it sgt. barlow? he is only one man, but has a team behind him which supports him with textures and props, corys awesome artwork => many many good ideas and sounds.
Im a decent mapper. when i had some brain behind me who has for everything an awesome idea, it would speed up my mapping time significantly. so i dont know how much time is needed for an official map. it could take 200 hours to 1000 hours.
We have 4 official mappers, not all of them full time, and each is working on their own maps, but with some overlap. Oli "Dux" is working on Docking. Sgt. Barlow made Mineshaft, which is the next map due to be released soon. Michael "Olmy" made Tram, and helped out with Docking as well. He's continuing to work on some major revisions to Tram. And Andrew "Insane" is working on Refining. And then in addition to those 4, of course, there's Michael "Psykoman", creator of Summit, who can be considered an official mapper now, since Summit is included in the official NS2 maps.
I wouldn't go so far as to say that these guys have a "team behind them", as it's mostly just Bill, our awesome environment artist who makes all the props and textures for them to use, and then there's the concept art and paintovers that I provide them with. Needless to say, these guys have all put in a lot of hours, and are doing an amazing job, and we can't wait to show off the work they've done on the unreleased maps.
--Cory
I wouldn't go so far as to say that these guys have a "team behind them", as it's mostly just Bill, our awesome environment artist who makes all the props and textures for them to use, and then there's the concept art and paintovers that I provide them with. Needless to say, these guys have all put in a lot of hours, and are doing an amazing job, and we can't wait to show off the work they've done on the unreleased maps.
--Cory<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
These are the kind of responses that (in my opinion) the community really appreciates. Thanks for keeping an eye on the forum and providing feedback and updates on a regular basis.
I wouldn't go so far as to say that these guys have a "team behind them", as it's mostly just Bill, our awesome environment artist who makes all the props and textures for them to use, and then there's the concept art and paintovers that I provide them with. Needless to say, these guys have all put in a lot of hours, and are doing an amazing job, and we can't wait to show off the work they've done on the unreleased maps.
--Cory<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I can ab-so-lute-ly NOT wait for mineshaft! We are all looking forward to it!
Out of curiosity, what happened to mendasp? I was really looking forward to his map. Or is he just not considered an "official" mapper?