Distress Beacon input
Koruyo
AUT Join Date: 2009-06-06 Member: 67724Members, Reinforced - Shadow
AUT Join Date: 2009-06-06 Member: 67724Members, Reinforced - Shadow
In NS1 it only allowed you to spawn your marines at the marine main base, no matter if you relocated or not.
Since we now got fixed tech points, i would like to see a bit more flexibility - if marines invest in having a 2nd+ commandstation or relocate, you should be able to choose where to beacon. (i guess it uses player spawn points so mappers would need to add them for every techpoint to avoid getting stuck.)
To choose at which point you want to beacon you either have to add the beacon button to every commandstation, or some kind of 2click thing where you click beacon on the obs and then on the commandstation you want, or a popup list with the techpoints locations.
Any ideas? - do you think it would be too powerfull if you were able to forward beacon? On the other hand it would cost some extra res for a commandstation, and makes you vulnerable at other bases if you use it offensivly at a forward base. (cooldown)
Since we now got fixed tech points, i would like to see a bit more flexibility - if marines invest in having a 2nd+ commandstation or relocate, you should be able to choose where to beacon. (i guess it uses player spawn points so mappers would need to add them for every techpoint to avoid getting stuck.)
To choose at which point you want to beacon you either have to add the beacon button to every commandstation, or some kind of 2click thing where you click beacon on the obs and then on the commandstation you want, or a popup list with the techpoints locations.
Any ideas? - do you think it would be too powerfull if you were able to forward beacon? On the other hand it would cost some extra res for a commandstation, and makes you vulnerable at other bases if you use it offensivly at a forward base. (cooldown)
Comments
Maybe I was dreaming but I thought i read the ability will transport everyone to a observatory?
if that was the case there would no longer be a need for ninja phase gates. Its now ninja observatory's!~
I think every command station should have access to the beacon(if an observatory is up). So to use the beacon it would cost energy from the observatory and have a global cool down of some time.
It just seems too powerfull if you can beacon to every obs on the map... kinda a replacing of the phasegates. (dont foget it revives all dead players and ports them at the location too)
What Koruyo is getting at is clever and i didnt think in terms of a new game. Sure the old beacon was cool but there could be more to it. I would like to see the marines spawn around where ever the comm station is. So if you are at a tech point and use beacon they warp to there (having an obs of course) and making it Pres based would be nice for something else to spend that res on.
Or just make it so the main commander has access to the beacon and can choose which base to deploy the troops.
build obs in base
build a obs near a hive. Wait for energy for beacon to fill up (i assume that the obs wont have enough energy from start).
beacon everybody to hive and try to take it down
as soon as needed (everybdoy dead, or aliens make a counterattack), beacon everybody back to base
Now this strategy is hard to do i think. Because you would have to keep that hidden obs for long enough to have enough energy. So i think that would counter all abuses of that, just make it so that from the time a obs has been built, until the beacon on it can be used is high enough.
Beacon had negative sides too, all marines are in the base => every outpost is empty for some time...
Most of my games in ns1 the commander only used it to gather up his marines for a mass assault most of the time, supplying them with heavy armor and weps.
The minority of beacons was when a onos would enter marine base while players were assaulting a hive, kinda became a real race against time..was pretty cool
My vote is for a cooldown tho since it is rts based. therefor such dramatic actions should have severe consequences (other than every marine being warped home)
Also, the beacon never sent the marines TOO the obs. They were sent to Marine Start (whether there was a base there or not). An obs could be built anywhere to help get an emergency beacon off if marine start or base was getting over run.
You still want it in the obs. That is the point that it dies fast. It is a high priority target the aliens need to down. Obs > Ip > Arms Lab. I always liked taking down the Advanced Armory hehe but im evil.
Obs rushing hives sounds insanely unfair. A group of 4+ marines can take down a hive with lmgs quicker than any alien class can travel back to the hive, let alone an entire team of them with possible shotguns. Thats what phase gates are for. Obs should not be used as a means of navigating the map, thats not its purpose.
lastly, I do believe the obs needs a cool down feature for beacon. It should still be cheap to beacon, but it should require more time between uses. It shouldnt be long, but it should be long enough to make it not an abusable option. Beacon wasvused incorrectly in pubs in ns1 a lot.
Another option could be a large prompt on the screen when activating the beacon. If you command station count is greater than 1, than your cc locations are presented large in the middle of the screen for a quick select. Other wise you beacon to the default single cc location.
You ninja build an obs outside a hive, and have the entire team spawn there to fight while your base is empty. And observatories have low health.
And if your base is near death you can quickly recall your troops to the base while risking the loss of territory.
Would work better if the armor/weapons were tied to the armslab like ns1.
Beacon being placed in the obs gives the structure value. No reason to combined it with the CS. Ninja Obs refer to when your obs in base is destroyed and a marine in the field somewhere builds one allowing the comm to use beacon to respawn everyone. Last ditch effort on the part of the marines. It works WITH pgs. It is fine as is with Beacon tied to the obs.
<!--quoteo(post=1866710:date=Aug 5 2011, 11:34 AM:name=Quovatis)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Quovatis @ Aug 5 2011, 11:34 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1866710"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'd really like to see the aliens have a similar ability, much like as was done in the prototype mod. The alien comm should be able to place eggs down for a cost (and hive energy). This allows for forward spawning points as well as a last-ditch plan to get your team to spawn in when marines are in your hive killing all the eggs. Unlike the prototype mod, this would have to be tied to hive energy as well so you couldn't do it indefinitely if you had a lot of team res, which is common for aliens late in the game.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Aliens will have movement chambers (not sure what they are calling them) when clicked on (use key, like opening a door) you get warped to a hive or if a hive is taking damage, that hive specifically. This was a big advantage in Friendly Fire instances. Aliens would hit the hive on purpose to be able to warp where they chose (it was later implemented you could just press "use" on a hive for the same effect FF or not.) You are right though. Aliens do not have a mass spawn ability but spawn from multiple hives. The ability to choose which hive to spawn at might be a solution (granted it doesnt help early game shotgun rushes with a single hive). A mass spawn for aliens would be nice but i would really like to see something else than a carbon copy of beacon.
I agree with this first and foremost. I suggested it also but it was lost in my babblings.
Two things
1. This logic is backwards. You shouldn't give a structure an ability to make the structure useful, but add (or in this case remove) a structure whose functionally can be accomplished in another way (i.e. beacon on CS). I'd actually be happy if all of the obs tech (beacon, scan, phasegate tech) we're moved to other structures to reduce unnecessary complexity on the marine side.
2. If that's too much for, only moving beacon to the CS wouldn't make the obs obsolete. Scan and phasegate tech still give the obs a very valuable role. If UWE decides to include some type of motion tracking, the obs would likely be the best place to put it.
1. This logic is backwards. You shouldn't give a structure an ability to make the structure useful, but add (or in this case remove) a structure whose functionally can be accomplished in another way (i.e. beacon on CS). I'd actually be happy if all of the obs tech (beacon, scan, phasegate tech) we're moved to other structures to reduce unnecessary complexity on the marine side.
2. If that's too much for, only moving beacon to the CS wouldn't make the obs obsolete. Scan and phasegate tech still give the obs a very valuable role. If UWE decides to include some type of motion tracking, the obs would likely be the best place to put it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Problem is i disagree with #1. But on to #2. Problem is i have played NS1 and am stuck in my ways. The obs was another primary target aliens would have to go for. This is the alien thinking process when attacking a marine base:
Kill?
IP: Quick win but all the other marines are out there and they can beacon
CC: not going to happen quickly
Armory (advanced): Kill marine upper tech such as shotguns, flamethrowers, and GLs till they have enough res to not only build another armory but upgrade it.
Arms Lab: No more weapons or armor upgrades. Easy kills.
Obs: Beacon
It adds to the "what should i kill first". If there were no reason to kill the obs because let's face it, motion tracking isnt that powerful to require you to take it out first and pg research can be reversed, it would be one step closer to the IP going down. It required aliens to kill the obs first then the IP. Munch on the IP all you want but if it went down having the entire marine team spawn on you (some with weapons) sucked. (not to mention the ninja obs).
I love NS1 and it is tough for me too see good in change, but this is one thing i would never want to see changed period.
Kill?
IP: Quick win but all the other marines are out there and they can beacon
CC: not going to happen quickly
Armory (advanced): Kill marine upper tech such as shotguns, flamethrowers, and GLs till they have enough res to not only build another armory but upgrade it.
Arms Lab: No more weapons or armor upgrades. Easy kills.
Obs: Beacon
It adds to the "what should i kill first". If there were no reason to kill the obs because let's face it, motion tracking isnt that powerful to require you to take it out first and pg research can be reversed, it would be one step closer to the IP going down. It required aliens to kill the obs first then the IP. Munch on the IP all you want but if it went down having the entire marine team spawn on you (some with weapons) sucked. (not to mention the ninja obs).
I love NS1 and it is tough for me too see good in change, but this is one thing i would never want to see changed period.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I understand the sentiment, but I don't think this is a valid method of game design. NS1 was a great game and someone is free to make a NS1 mod on the spark engine that I'll gladly play. However, NS2 will never be NS1. In fact, I think UWE has the potential to make NS2 better than NS1, but only if they approach NS2 as a related, but different, game.
WRT to your specific example, what if UWE made PG operations depend on the obs being built? That way, if you killed an obs, you'd take down the entire marine PG network. I'd say that's a valuable reason to kill the obs. Ironically, right now the IP is the most valuable structure to take down because a) its so easy to kill and b) it ends the game (no spawn + marines die quickly = gg).
WRT to your specific example, what if UWE made PG operations depend on the obs being built? That way, if you killed an obs, you'd take down the entire marine PG network. I'd say that's a valuable reason to kill the obs. Ironically, right now the IP is the most valuable structure to take down because a) its so easy to kill and b) it ends the game (no spawn + marines die quickly = gg).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I hear what you are saying but i prefer to think they are taking NS1, cutting out the bad, adding new, but keeping the overall structure the same and trying to mimick their great success. If the game strays too much i wont play NS2 and ill stick with as you say a NS1 in spark mod. Once the beacon is in game the obs will be #1 on the list. Putting it in a structure that is meant to last the entire game would be an unfair spot to place it and would force them to restrict it's use big time. (i hate restriction when i believe they are not needed)
<!--quoteo(post=1866800:date=Aug 5 2011, 06:01 PM:name=peregrinus)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (peregrinus @ Aug 5 2011, 06:01 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1866800"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->There should be a 2 or 3 second delay, and marines should get a pop up warning 'distress beacon activated by commander, prepare for teliportation to [location selected by commander]<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
There always was without the on screen warning. The siren :P