Do marines need some sort of anti-alien sight weapon?

Kalabalana

What if there was a flare or something a rine can dispatch which has some negative affect on all visible aliens that are in alien sight mode?

RichardRahl

No.

Kalabalana

<!--quoteo(post=1866433:date=Aug 4 2011, 04:56 PM:name=RichardRahl)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (RichardRahl @ Aug 4 2011, 04:56 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1866433"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->No.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

First excellent post!

RobB

Only if aliens can overload a marine's processor for the holo hud.

but seriously, now: anything that changes a player's view is frowned upon.
l4d is not a valid example since it's designed as a coop game, versus came later.
and flashbangs in cs and co are invalid, too, because those games are something entirely different than ns2.

Kalabalana

The high contrast view of alien sight makes fighting much easier. Any sort of buff for one team should be matched, or have a counter available, from the other. imo of course.

Maybe some sort of beacon, which has a low cost and is temporary which makes alien sight unusable in it's AOE.

RobB

I don't know if it's still in, but last time I checked, marines had map wide wallhack a.k.a. motion tracking. again, I don't know if its still in NS2.

RichardRahl

<!--quoteo(post=1866442:date=Aug 4 2011, 05:23 PM:name=Kalabalana)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kalabalana @ Aug 4 2011, 05:23 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1866442"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The high contrast view of alien sight makes fighting much easier. Any sort of buff for one team should be matched, or have a counter available, from the other. imo of course.

Maybe some sort of beacon, which has a low cost and is temporary which makes alien sight unusable in it's AOE.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

flashlights, end of story.


<!--quoteo(post=1866444:date=Aug 4 2011, 05:26 PM:name=RobB)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (RobB @ Aug 4 2011, 05:26 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1866444"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I don't know if it's still in, but last time I checked, marines had map wide wallhack a.k.a. motion tracking. again, I don't know if its still in NS2.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Neg, but when commanders scan everything shows up on minimap for marines.

kingmob

We discussed this before and i will make my suggestion again.

Make the marine flashlight be blinding when he points it at an alien using the sight.

Honestly I don't think the alien sight is that over powered.
You can't see certain things correctly with it so it usually does not pay to leave it on.

I find it terribly helpful in learning to traverse the level quickly.

I hope they don't put motion tracking in NS2....or scale it back like its a spell cast for a period on an area.
It made skulks fairly worthless once researched.

Kalabalana

<!--quoteo(post=1866447:date=Aug 4 2011, 05:33 PM:name=RichardRahl)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (RichardRahl @ Aug 4 2011, 05:33 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1866447"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->flashlights, end of story.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Another deep and well thought out post! Bravo my friend!
<!--quoteo(post=1866449:date=Aug 4 2011, 05:38 PM:name=kingmob)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (kingmob @ Aug 4 2011, 05:38 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1866449"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->We discussed this before and i will make my suggestion again.

Make the marine flashlight be blinding when he points it at an alien using the sight.

Honestly I don't think the alien sight is that over powered.
You can't see certain things correctly with it so it usually does not pay to leave it on.

I find it terribly helpful in learning to traverse the level quickly.

I hope they don't put motion tracking in NS2....or scale it back like its a spell cast for a period on an area.
It made skulks fairly worthless once researched.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I pretty much play alien with the sight on all the time. It's not some incredible benefit to the team, but the contrast makes everything incredibly easy to pick out and see. Everything important to the game is highlighted, it's literally like the skin hacks used back in the days of cs where player model textures were replaced with single brightly visible colors. (Blue and red)

I'm not saying the game needs anything done with regards to alien sight, but I am brain storming about it.

azimaith

AvP Classic had "Alien" vision right, it simply high brightness, extremely low contrast, used for navigating terrain in dark areas but you had a hard time telling a person from a wall when you're zooming around, much less fighting.

Heroman117

Alien vision doesn't need any counter, it just helps aliens see better in dark rooms, which they should be able to, since fighting in their home territory with the power node destroyed makes the battlefield darker, putting aliens at the advantage, which is an intentional game design decision, not any oversight or bug. It has its own drawbacks, you cant tell what the lighting condition is in your position, friendly structures and units are highlighted as well, sometimes causing confusion or clutter when your in a room with lots of friendly as well as enemy structures/units. Infact i remember many threads back when alien vision was first implemented with people complaining that it needs to be MORE powerful.

I personally play better with alien vision off except in very dark rooms or sometimes against a flame thrower marine. And really, aliens should have higher combat awareness anyway, a good marine isn't going to be hiding in the shadows, sneaking around trying to be unnoticed, that's not their mechanic, the aliens are the ones that are supposed to be sneaking around trying to be unnoticed until they strike.

RisingSun

<!--quoteo(post=1866487:date=Aug 4 2011, 05:28 PM:name=Heroman117)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Heroman117 @ Aug 4 2011, 05:28 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1866487"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Alien vision doesn't need any counter, it just helps aliens see better in dark rooms, which they should be able to, since fighting in their home territory with the power node destroyed makes the battlefield darker, putting aliens at the advantage, which is an intentional game design decision, not any oversight or bug. It has its own drawbacks, you cant tell what the lighting condition is in your position, friendly structures and units are highlighted as well, sometimes causing confusion or clutter when your in a room with lots of friendly as well as enemy structures/units. Infact i remember many threads back when alien vision was first implemented with people complaining that it needs to be MORE powerful.

I personally play better with alien vision off except in very dark rooms or sometimes against a flame thrower marine. And really, aliens should have higher combat awareness anyway, a good marine isn't going to be hiding in the shadows, sneaking around trying to be unnoticed, that's not their mechanic, the aliens are the ones that are supposed to be sneaking around trying to be unnoticed until they strike.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

+1

King Cow

I think the idea is nice but im not sure it would be very fun for the aliens. (fun can be had from a problem that can be over come with skill. Blinding a player takes this opportunity away from them.)

Kalabalana

I hadn't realized so many people still haven't discovered the benefits of alien sight. Using normal sight is detrimental as alien in ns2 when fighting as skulk, fade, and lerk if you don't care about seeing where your gas is placed (even gorge, but I don't use it enough to know). I guess you can't see flames with alien sight, but you can figure it out, plus the audio helps, but that's more of an advanced technique I guess, not for everyone just yet. It will come with more play time, or as you get better as alien. Or maybe it's just from my all my FPS play experience I can so easily see the strengths of game mechanics like this.

I guess alien sight doesn't really need a counter, but I thought it would be something fun to play with. Thanks guys!

jerkstoresup

Aliens have the advantage in dark rooms. There's no good balance reason to take that away from them.

Kalabalana

<!--quoteo(post=1866653:date=Aug 5 2011, 09:47 AM:name=jerkstoresup)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jerkstoresup @ Aug 5 2011, 09:47 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1866653"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Aliens have the advantage in dark rooms. There's no good balance reason to take that away from them.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Actually alien sight gives them the advantage in any lighting condition. But I am starting to see I am in the minority understanding that.

Rulgrok

Um - did we all forget that the alien com has those drifters that blind marines? That kind of makes any argument that putting in a blinding element to the game is going to be changing a players view pointless - we already have one in game. One that rarely is used, almost worthless in the game because of the drifters hp - though with their quick bugged speed it might actually be an effective end game strategy now.

I don't think flashing a flashlight on an alien would cause them to blind in alien view. If anything alien view is some form of thermal vision that is only highlighting living beings and objects with an highly active electricity flow and some sort of function. The energy put out by one of those tiny and weak flashlights ( really the marine flashlight only makes 5 feet in front of you bright) would not be enough to affect what the alien vision.

Kouji_San

<!--quoteo(post=1866656:date=Aug 5 2011, 01:58 PM:name=Kalabalana)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kalabalana @ Aug 5 2011, 01:58 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1866656"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Actually alien sight gives them the advantage in any lighting condition. But I am starting to see I am in the minority understanding that.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
flash effect when shining your flashlight on them, when they are using it. And of course close to or just outright unusable in well lit areas would be a nice thing IMHO...

Corpsey

<!--quoteo(post=1866436:date=Aug 4 2011, 05:07 PM:name=RobB)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (RobB @ Aug 4 2011, 05:07 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1866436"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->but seriously, now: anything that changes a player's view is frowned upon.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Marines can have their vision temporarily blinded by the drifters <i>Flare</i> ability. Although, I think this makes sense because the marines are ranged anyways so the aliens need a way to get up to them somehow. Although it will be easier with the shades capabilities aswell. I wouldn't mind if the frontiersmen had flashbangs.. after all flashbangs have been proven to disorient offenders in real life situations, giving the authority a chance to survive a breach. Could you imagine a SWAT team breaching <i>without</i> flashbangs? Their survival rates would be lessened dramatically.

I don't know how this could be implemented into the game though. :P

fmpone

<!--quoteo(post=1866662:date=Aug 5 2011, 10:49 AM:name=Kouji_San)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kouji_San @ Aug 5 2011, 10:49 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1866662"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->flash effect when shining your flashlight on them, when they are using it. And of course close to or just outright unusable in well lit areas would be a nice thing IMHO...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

I really like this idea. Would give the flashlight more "body" and "oomph" instead of having it just be this little dinky thing duct-taped to your rifle

ASnogarD

Hmm Koji , let me see if I understood your suggestion here...

Alien vision to not be of any use in bright areas, and basically flash any Kharaa using the vison if a Marine who has his flashlight on looks at a Kharaa ?

This wasnt a well thought out suggestion to be honest, a Marine will 95% of the time use flashlights in the dark to see, a Kharaa will use thier vision in the dark to see as well... in effect you are suggesting Kharaa get penalised heavily for using thier 'flashlight' .

If , and I really dont think this is the case , the vision is OP then why not make it a pulse rather than a toggle , and make it use a small amount of energy per pulse ?

Kouji_San

Ok, <b>flash</b> was the wrong word to use :) What I meant was make it brighter like looking into a bright light. Not making the alien view useless, just have a soft counter. As for it being less effective in lit up areas, I dunno seems fair enough, maybe not blinding, but less effective as in going closer to normal view, with an initial very short light flash if you suddenly go into the light so to speak :P. Like in the HL2 coast demo, going from a dark area to a bright area


Which can be avoided by disabling the alien view beforehand, I dunno it makes this green pea soup with orange highlights a much more immersive thing to have instead of just making the game look like tron on steroids...

RisingSun

If there had to be a penalty for using alien flash light why not have the aliens eyes glow a feint red. This way an alien could look away to hide his eyes but give up line of sight. This is as far as i would ever want to see alien flashlight penalized.

Kalabalana

<!--quoteo(post=1866706:date=Aug 5 2011, 01:26 PM:name=RisingSun)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (RisingSun @ Aug 5 2011, 01:26 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1866706"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->If there had to be a penalty for using alien flash light why not have the aliens eyes glow a feint red. This way an alien could look away to hide his eyes but give up line of sight. This is as far as i would ever want to see alien flashlight penalized.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

This is actually a great idea

Hakujin

As usual, the negative nancy brigade comes out against any good ideas for change. Alien sight is a supremely powerful ability. Giving the marines something to force good aliens players to adapt would add richness and complexity to the game.

Personally I like the idea of an upgrade to individual observatories which would generate phantom parasites in normal vision and phantom marines in alien vision (in a limited radius around the obs). This would incentivize marines to place forward obs and create scenarios where aliens would be better off NOT using alien sight.

vizioNz

Umm motion tracking is the marines version of alien sight, is it not?

Kalabalana

<!--quoteo(post=1866748:date=Aug 5 2011, 04:41 PM:name=vizionz)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (vizionz @ Aug 5 2011, 04:41 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1866748"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Umm motion tracking is the marines version of alien sight, is it not?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Rines don't have their own version, but I thought researching some sort of marine version of aliensight would be cool. The black armor's already have the goggles!

zex

flashlight

Kouji_San

hehe, was about to post that as well zex :D

RisingSun

<!--quoteo(post=1866748:date=Aug 5 2011, 02:41 PM:name=vizionz)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (vizionz @ Aug 5 2011, 02:41 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1866748"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Umm motion tracking is the marines version of alien sight, is it not?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

+

<!--quoteo(post=1866756:date=Aug 5 2011, 03:12 PM:name=zex)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (zex @ Aug 5 2011, 03:12 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1866756"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->flashlight<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

=

Alien sight.

Totally agree with them both.

zex

<!--quoteo(post=1866432:date=Aug 4 2011, 08:53 PM:name=Kalabalana)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kalabalana @ Aug 4 2011, 08:53 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1866432"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->What if there was a flare or something a rine can dispatch which has some negative affect on all visible aliens that are in alien sight mode?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

flashlight

since it was apparently confusing the first time i posted it