Upgrades+Life-Form Costs vs. Weapons+Equipment Costs

Sewlek

I was recently thinking about personal res flow and the impact on the game.
Well, the impact is quite clear: Players will have more / better stuff and become stronger. Not only stronger, but also roles and play styles change.

One thing that bothers me is, that marines don't lose resources when they die. Their weapon is dropped, and another marine can pick it up. That makes weapons a lot cheaper than the price listed in the armory if you compare it with life-form costs. That means you can compare life-form costs only with marine equipment (I'm talking about exosuit and jetpacks) which also get lost upon death. Since they are not implemented yet, I cannot say much about them.

But you could compare alien upgrades (swarm etc.) with marine weapons. The marine commander has to spend t.res to unlock them, the alien commander as well. the only problem here is that you have to buy the upgrades each time you die as field player. Even if it's just a small price, it still prevents (in my opinion) the devs to make a clear balance between marine weapons and alien upgrades (in regards of spend p.res and benefits).

Wouldn't it be better to group alien upgrades in categories, increase the cost of them to ~10 p.res, but when you die you will keep that upgrade? You can have only one "whip" or "shade" upgrade, and if you want to switch it you have to pay again. that would add the option to have classes (life-forms) with different strengths and weaknesses. and depending on the marine tech, you want to choose the right upgrades.

a small example:

whip: "dps upgrade (<!--coloro:#FF8C00--><span style="color:#FF8C00"><!--/coloro-->swarm<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->)" "burst upgrade (<!--coloro:#FF8C00--><span style="color:#FF8C00"><!--/coloro-->focus<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->)"
crag: "more armor (<!--coloro:#FF8C00--><span style="color:#FF8C00"><!--/coloro-->carapace<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->)" "heal after kill (<!--coloro:#FF8C00--><span style="color:#FF8C00"><!--/coloro-->frency<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->)"
shift: "speed upgrade (<!--coloro:#FF8C00--><span style="color:#FF8C00"><!--/coloro-->celerity<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->)" "<!--coloro:#FF8C00--><span style="color:#FF8C00"><!--/coloro-->slow<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> on hit (dependent on range)"
shade: "<!--coloro:#FF8C00--><span style="color:#FF8C00"><!--/coloro-->silence<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->" "<!--coloro:#FF8C00--><span style="color:#FF8C00"><!--/coloro-->disorient<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> (makes your noise appear from another direction and also visual effects from there)"

now with 2 hives you can combine already 3 categories. As you see, I tried to create one upgrade for offensive purpose, and one for defensive and group play. But you can mix them and create specialized "builds". So if the aliens choose to rush some tech, they can do that but have the downside that higher life-forms and 2nd hive will be available later. also, people can have roles again: One guy will be elected to go fade and save his res, 2 others are chosen to take swarm+frency to take down RTs and make pressure, one is gorge and drops hydras and the 5. is going lerk to support his gorge. Alternative to lerk would be an early skulk with focus / carapacy (or which ever combination would suit), which would have the advantage that you are allowed to die and not lose resources.

<!--coloro:#696969--><span style="color:#696969"><!--/coloro-->Another addition, to bring even more variation: aliens should build some special structure and research / unlock life-forms (except of skulk and gorge).<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->

some adjustments have to be done to support such system (upgrades benefits high enough and un-upgraded life-forms weak enough), so that aliens have a real choice to either go for fast 2nd hive, or to go for fast "tech". both should be viable

want to hear some other opinions about that :)

Corpsey

What if the armory forced you to pay for ammo.. even if it were a small amount, it would stop the marine team from being able to just infinitely replenish weapon ammo without consequence. Like for LMG, 1 I-Res per magazine, for shotgun 1 I-Res for 8 shells. Really, you would never notice it unless you were being really dumb and reloading after each shot. Also the I-Res could have to go into decimal value but I'd be okay with that, I dunno about other peoples opinion though.

ScardyBob

Except in practice, marines don't regain dropped weapons that often (outside of turtling in MS, of course). However, I like the idea of upgrades/weapons being permanent until changed. It would reduce repetitively buying the same weapons/upgrades and support more customization. The ways I could see this work are:
1. What you have proposed (can select only one upgrade/weapon from each class)
2. A carrying capacity system (i.e. you can only carry 100 weight in upgrades/weapons, but can choose from any upgrade/weapon type)
3. An upkeep system (i.e. upgrade/weapon purchases don't cost PRes upfront, but reduce your own personal PRes flow via an upkeep, creating a trade-off between more upgrades now or saving up for a better class/weapon. However, for this to work on the marines-side, they'd need some personal upgrades).

Sewlek

<!--quoteo(post=1866162:date=Aug 3 2011, 05:12 PM:name=Corpsey)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Corpsey @ Aug 3 2011, 05:12 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1866162"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->What if the armory forced you to pay for ammo.. even if it were a small amount, it would stop the marine team from being able to just infinitely replenish weapon ammo without consequence. Like for LMG, 1 I-Res per magazine, for shotgun 1 I-Res for 8 shells. Really, you would never notice it unless you were being really dumb and reloading after each shot. Also the I-Res could have to go into decimal value but I'd be okay with that, I dunno about other peoples opinion though.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

i would type in "kill" everytime when im out of ammo inside the marine base or call the comm a noob because hes not dropping ammo packs for me! :P