Become a super skulk vs. LMGs
vizioNz
InversionNS2.com Join Date: 2003-12-21 Member: 24595Members, Constellation, NS2 Playtester
InversionNS2.com Join Date: 2003-12-21 Member: 24595Members, Constellation, NS2 Playtester
I did a little research as a skulk recently and noticed a major glitch in almost becoming un-hit-able in close combat. It mainly stems from the extreme poor animation transitions between a skulk when going from two different surfaces such as the floor to a wall.
What I did for an entire game was walk next to a wall everywhere I traveled. When I spotted a marine I would strafe using my A, D keys while holdong W and I could honestly say I was actually killed at best 2 out of ten times due to the animation of the skulk flipping from walking on a wall to walking on the ground.
I believe doing this causes the hitbox on the skulk model to flip back and forth so many times causing the registration of the bullets difficult to calculate properly and register a hit when a hit is valid. The only way I found this not happening on such an alatming rate was when a shotgun was being used by the attacking Marine.
I also noticed this when sliding as a gorge and spinning my mouse 360° during the slide. I tried getting videos of my research but unfortunately NS2HD nor the UW staff has replied to my inquiry regarding my framerate drop while running FRAPS.
What I did for an entire game was walk next to a wall everywhere I traveled. When I spotted a marine I would strafe using my A, D keys while holdong W and I could honestly say I was actually killed at best 2 out of ten times due to the animation of the skulk flipping from walking on a wall to walking on the ground.
I believe doing this causes the hitbox on the skulk model to flip back and forth so many times causing the registration of the bullets difficult to calculate properly and register a hit when a hit is valid. The only way I found this not happening on such an alatming rate was when a shotgun was being used by the attacking Marine.
I also noticed this when sliding as a gorge and spinning my mouse 360° during the slide. I tried getting videos of my research but unfortunately NS2HD nor the UW staff has replied to my inquiry regarding my framerate drop while running FRAPS.
Comments
I'm gonna try doing what you said and see how effective it is.
Please don't post exploits - flayra
<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=114345" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/in...howtopic=114345</a>
Please don't post exploits - flayra
<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=114345" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/in...howtopic=114345</a><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
And I would like to be direct to you meat head, it's not an exploit. Learn the difference.
It's not guaranteed and it varies in results from a users frame-rate. This is a bug with their animation system.
P.S. - Exploits are a good thing! (says dictionary.com <a href="http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/exploit)" target="_blank">http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/exploit)</a>
Which can arguably be extrapolated to include any balance issue.
This is an exploit in the same way bunnyhopping is an exploit, abusing game elements which allow you to rapidly shift position in ways which don't make immediate sense to an outside observer, it's very annoying and while I would like to see all traces of effaced from the game, many people would probably argue that it's a legitimate tactic.
This is an exploit in the same way bunnyhopping is an exploit, abusing game elements which allow you to rapidly shift position in ways which don't make immediate sense to an outside observer, it's very annoying and while I would like to see all traces of effaced from the game, many people would probably argue that it's a legitimate tactic.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'll be honest with you. Privately sending bugs to Unknown Worlds usually takes the bug much longer to get fixed. If you publicly express concern for a issue with the game mechanics in which a user can create an unfair environment amongst other players without blatantly hacking, they usually are much faster at fixing the problem. I've sent bugs and exploits in the past and it seems it took a much longer time to see a fix for them as to when users discuss them here on the forums out in the open.
I retract my statement above that this isn't an exploit. The only reason why I don't consider this to be a full blown exploit (like the skulk bite in b182) is due to the fact that it isn't the easy to duplicate the action repeatedly. (ana.)Tempest and I last night, were trying to figure out an algorithm of some sort to duplicate this over and over (so that I may record and submit it to UW) and well, it ended up being reasonable difficult unless your quick with your fingers and able to multi-task using the WSAD keys.
Regardless, it's possible and the hit-boxes were flipping and ignoring bullets that were aimed directly at the skulk. The collision system is already in dire need of improvement, adding this issue only amplifies the problems with hitting a skulk in close combat for marines.
It's not guaranteed and it varies in results from a users frame-rate. This is a bug with their animation system.
P.S. - Exploits are a good thing! (says dictionary.com <a href="http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/exploit)" target="_blank">http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/exploit)</a><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Shouldn't call people meatheads, especially since it is an exploit.
Blah, I don't consider this a "typical" exploit to be honest. The Skulk bite was an exploit by rapidly switching weapons. The animations from wall to floor when moving forward/backward with a Skulk is not exploiting broken code, it's using the default animation system that is not seamless at the moment.
Flayra has recently mentioned this is going to be more seamless in the near future.
Hit me up at NS2HD@live.com.au I will respond within an hour during daytime GMT+10
No worries, I figured everything out. Check out the examples at the following links:
Part 1: <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VEAt0O17boA" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VEAt0O17boA</a>
Part 2: <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XP0l6vsNuEA" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XP0l6vsNuEA</a>
Part 1: <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VEAt0O17boA" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VEAt0O17boA</a>
Part 2: <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XP0l6vsNuEA" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XP0l6vsNuEA</a><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I expected "<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DwQbPgouUYo" target="_blank">House Of pain - Jump Around</a>", but copyright...
Did play it with that music though, funny as hell :P
Agreed, how is this not a exploit lmao? You are glitching the game by not allowing marines to hit you because of a animation/hitbox bug.. Posting this here is going to make others that read it use the bug.
I would report this, but last time I did nothing happened :P. Think it's time for UWE to get some mods since the forums are becoming more active now.
Did play it with that music though, funny as hell :P<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
lol, I used to play that while jump spamming with the flamethrower in earlier builds :D
<u>NICE </u>find! lol
or you could try "not being bad" you shouldn't be coming at a marine from the front.
Marines don't have a front, they have a 'direction they are currently facing but probably won't continue to face for the time it takes you to get close to them'
Sneaking up behind enemies only works in metal gear solid. In NS it is merely less fatal. I would not describe it as effective though.
Players are unpredictable, nothing you can do about it, the success of stealth as skulk or really any melee class in NS is based almost entirely upon luck.
Flayra specifically said not to post these sort of things as play-testing goes out the window.
You even mentioned that previously when you PM'ed them bugs and other issues they were only <u>slow</u> to respond. Meaning that they got to your PM, not ignored it.
Why were they slow you ask? Probably because they are working on other, more important things.
If UWE dropped everything everytime someone posted a bug/exploit absolutely nothing would get done and we wouldn't even be up to build 183.
So well done, it's been brought to everyones attention now when it should have been left with the devs.
Flayra specifically said not to post these sort of things as play-testing goes out the window.
You even mentioned that previously when you PM'ed them bugs and other issues they were only <u>slow</u> to respond. Meaning that they got to your PM, not ignored it.
Why were they slow you ask? Probably because they are working on other, more important things.
If UWE dropped everything everytime someone posted a bug/exploit absolutely nothing would get done and we wouldn't even be up to build 183.
So well done, it's been brought to everyones attention now when it should have been left with the devs.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
+1
Now they have to drop what trhey were doing to fix an exploit because someone wants to spread them wasting their time which could be better spent on adding in new features, balence fixes, internal testing, maybe the onos, heavy who knows, you might have just set back the time frame for release of t3 tech a couple weeks while they work on fixing this.
Most of the team cannot do anything to fix this bug, it's work for an animator and a programmer, for about a day most probably, possibly even less as you might be able to fix it just by tweaking the lua code which conrols skulk world model orientation.
If your attitude to bugs is 'pretend they don't exist until we can get round to fixing them' you're REALLY deluding yourself, people will find out, you can't do bugger all to stop it. A moratorium on discussing it just creates lots of stupid drama when someone encounters the bug and posts it without reading the 'don't post exploits' rule, which is going to happen, that's how forums work.
You want people not to post about game breaking bugs, fix the game breaking bugs.
It's called producing more traffic, it's advertising 101.
The point of the video is to bring this issue to UW sooner than later, publicly. This issue has been around since they first released NS2 to the public. If you look at some of my earlier videos (which were from Day 1), you can clearly see the skulk having these same issues. The point is, this is not an easy bug to duplicate, so I encourage users to go in a server and try to attempt this without being killed firsr. I personally do not use this, but I am aware this exists. If you've played with me on any server, you will know that this hit-box flipping doesn't make you invincible. I, as well as many others, can still take down any Skulk with an LMG, regardless of their animation issues.
I find in funny though that everyone rages when a bug that can be used unfairly in BETA gameplay. What everyone needs to understand that unless these issues are brought to UW with force, they usually get lost in the mix and get put on the back burner. However, if they are brought to their attention and they are immediately fixed, everyone is all happy, yet the whole reason why it was fixed so quickly was because of the users that put the issue on UW's doorstep to begin with and said "Hey, this needs to be fixed now and not next week".
A great example would be the Skulk double bite and the Lerk spores in 181. Players became aware of these, starting using them, which then caused users to come on here and complain, WHICH THEN threw the issue right on UW's front door step. Well, guess what happen? The two issues were fixed in days and not weeks. I've privately messaged them in the past regarding issues and possible exploits, but 90% of the time, I don't get a response back and I rarely seen them fixed. The community isn't large enough to not openly communicate with the users that are being your personal bug tracking system.
You all should appreciate those who publicly out an issue with the game that UW is then prompted to fix sooner than later making the game we all play more enjoyable. Instead, your trying to brown-nose Flayra while privately saying "Wow, I can't wait for them to improve Skulk animations!". Just saying...
<3 to you all though :)
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6MsNpqGu2o" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6MsNpqGu2o</a>