Techniques

MaGicBushMaGicBush Join Date: 2002-12-02 Member: 10378Members
edited July 2011 in Mapping
<div class="IPBDescription">Related to Hammer</div>I use to map with Hammer for various mods(TFC, TF2, CS), though I never really got serious with it(only finished one map really and it wasn't to popular though did get played on one custom server a few times). My question is simply should I pretty well use the same techniques picked up from Hammer? Such as no hollowing out rectangles(manually making each wall), don't let props actually touch the level geometry(1 unit off, though if I remember right TF2 didn't require this), etc? Another words is there anything I should take note of before starting on a new map I designed? Thanks for any tips, I read through both guides already and never mentions much about actually building the levels.
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  • fmponefmpone Join Date: 2011-07-05 Member: 108086Members, Squad Five Blue
    <!--quoteo(post=1862807:date=Jul 23 2011, 04:14 PM:name=MaGicBush)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MaGicBush @ Jul 23 2011, 04:14 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1862807"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I use to map with Hammer for various mods(TFC, TF2, CS), though I never really got serious with it(only finished one map really and it wasn't to popular though did get played on one custom server a few times). My question is simply should I pretty well use the same techniques picked up from Hammer? Such as no hollowing out rectangles(manually making each wall), don't let props actually touch the level geometry(1 unit off, though if I remember right TF2 didn't require this), etc? Another words is there anything I should take note of before starting on a new map I designed? Thanks for any tips, I read through both guides already and never mentions much about actually building the levels.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    There are two editor styles: ones like modelling programs, and hammer. These two have next to nothing in common.

    So, the bad news is, you have to basically forget everything you know about hammer to map for NS2, as the Spark editor is much more akin to a modeling program.

    There are video tutorials which I found most helpful when starting out from hammer and moving to Spark, I recommend you find those. The most important thing is that you will now be hollowing out boxes and putting the world inside there, rather than placing it on top of a bunch of solid cubes. Secondly, you have to learn all about vertices, which are the individual corners of boxes. Obviously, hammer has no such feature.

    Why even bother, if it's so much work? Well, a few reasons: a decade or two more advanced than hammer in terms of lighting; no more "leaks"; better ability to make complicated geometry (although there is no texture alignment, ATM, which is a pain in the ass); and Spark does NOT require decompling to view other maps or compiling to view your own. So, it's 10X better than hammer, once you get the hang of it. And it's only going t get better
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  • fmponefmpone Join Date: 2011-07-05 Member: 108086Members, Squad Five Blue
    Here is a pros and cons list, in case some developers take note:

    Hammer pros:
    Texture alignment
    Displacement tool is superb
    Texture blending displacement
    Skybox illumination controls

    Hammer cons:
    Literally everything else

    Spark pros:
    Crazy geometry with few hiccups
    In-editor lighting is very accurate to in-game
    HD viewport
    Model scaling!!!!
    Ambient lighting
    Instant "compiling"

    Spark cons:
    Totally lacks what few things hammer does well
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  • MaGicBushMaGicBush Join Date: 2002-12-02 Member: 10378Members
    edited July 2011
    Woah, some interesting information and glad I asked! It does seem better, especially the lighting and not having to wait a millennium to compile just to test a small portion. Unfortunately never messed with modeling so this will be a new venture for me lol, time to check out some videos :). Thanks for the information!
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  • fmponefmpone Join Date: 2011-07-05 Member: 108086Members, Squad Five Blue
    No problem glad I could help :)
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  • ScardyBobScardyBob ScardyBob Join Date: 2009-11-25 Member: 69528Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow
    As far I can tell, to be a good spark mapper you really need to be a good modeller (or know one). Most of the details in maps are models (i.e. there is no way to build intricate brush designs like you could in hammer).

    This method has way more potential then hammer (no compiling, better lighting, etc), but I find the current spark map editor to be pretty bare. Its missing much of the functionality of hammer (not unexpected since its a new engine) and pretty much only allows for building vanilla NS2-style maps (see summit). Though, if you only want to build vanilla NS2-style maps, its perfectly good for that.
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  • MaGicBushMaGicBush Join Date: 2002-12-02 Member: 10378Members
    edited July 2011
    <!--quoteo(post=1862913:date=Jul 23 2011, 09:24 PM:name=ScardyBob)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ScardyBob @ Jul 23 2011, 09:24 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1862913"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->As far I can tell, to be a good spark mapper you really need to be a good modeller (or know one). Most of the details in maps are models (i.e. there is no way to build intricate brush designs like you could in hammer).

    This method has way more potential then hammer (no compiling, better lighting, etc), but I find the current spark map editor to be pretty bare. Its missing much of the functionality of hammer (not unexpected since its a new engine) and pretty much only allows for building vanilla NS2-style maps (see summit). Though, if you only want to build vanilla NS2-style maps, its perfectly good for that.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    I heard it wasn't possible yet to import 3ds models into Spark is this true? If so are we just stuck with the vanilla stuff atm? Either way sounds like I will have to learn some modelling on the side if I want a unique map :(, having enough trouble studying for a test atm lol.
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