NS2 catering to Console players?
Slithers
Join Date: 2010-07-30 Member: 73368Members
Join Date: 2010-07-30 Member: 73368Members
With the way the PC market is going over the course of the last 10 years, the market has been saturated with corporate watered down games that have a replay value of 3 months before you throw the game disc in the garbage can and never play it again. I use to play games like counter-strike, quake, duke nukem 3d, unreal tournament, grand theft auto, bf1942 and never get bored of these games for years.
I have been playing in the NS2 beta religiously and it is def on the right track. What I don't like is, the constant bickering of how marines can "jump spam" too much. I am sorry but if you can't bite a marine that is walking and jumping 2/3 times, then clearly you never played NS1 to it's full potential. Seeing how NS2 development team has basically slowed NS2 down for xbox360 players already as it is, through speed and movement is kind of a disappointment in my eyes. I mean the only reason why the fade works the way it does, is not because they don't want to implement bunnyhopping, but because they know xbox players won't be able to do it with their trashy controllers.
You can call bhopping an exploit, a broken gameplay mechanic or whatever the case maybe. Fact is, Bunnyhopping was part of NS1 and a mechanic that made the game better, not worse. Every game I play now days, it feels like I have some type of hack installed on my computer, ranging from "radar" which allows you to know where the player is, to hit registry crosshairs, which lets you know your "hitting a target". I mean what happened to just being good? Why do you need to have a crosshair that lets you know your hitting somebody? I go in to BC2, I just randomly shoot rockets until I see the xhair blink and then I know guys are in there, so I just blast more until they die, it's pathetic.
I am just aggitated, that the market is being consumed and controlled by a community of newbs. These exact same noobs eat games inside and out from the core and are the very ones that will quit the game within 3/4 months and never return to it. They will go to another game, cry for the game to be watered down and function a certain way, game developers listen to them, bcause they sell out for money and then the players who want to stick around and enjoy skill based combat, are stuck with these trash gameplay mechanics for life.
Go play some Quake, NS1, CS and tell me they aren't the most amazing "feel" and "rewarding" games you have ever played. If only these games just had nex generation engines and sound mixed with that exact same feel... it would be mind blowing.
Unknownworlds, I really hope you guys don't sell out too much more, because at this point, I am starting to get turned off at the newb invasion on your forums and ingame. The part that makes it even worse is, you were the last company I expected to sell out, since from the start in Alpha, you said u would implement Bhopping, but now you say your not doing it. This is just a sign that you sold out to the masses of newbs on your forums that more than likely never even played NS1 to it's full extent. Anytime I go ingame and speak to old school vet, they are severely disappointed at the direction you have taken the game just to make some extra cash. I really hope you think these things through, or make some different modes for the game, like Tournament mode which is for hardcore players and softcore mode for the newbs that just pub all day long.
Anyways, Thats my 2cents, it has been a slice, I am sure I am going to get trolled and rolled for this post, simply because I am the miniority in the gaming industry that WANTS skill back in the games.
I have been playing in the NS2 beta religiously and it is def on the right track. What I don't like is, the constant bickering of how marines can "jump spam" too much. I am sorry but if you can't bite a marine that is walking and jumping 2/3 times, then clearly you never played NS1 to it's full potential. Seeing how NS2 development team has basically slowed NS2 down for xbox360 players already as it is, through speed and movement is kind of a disappointment in my eyes. I mean the only reason why the fade works the way it does, is not because they don't want to implement bunnyhopping, but because they know xbox players won't be able to do it with their trashy controllers.
You can call bhopping an exploit, a broken gameplay mechanic or whatever the case maybe. Fact is, Bunnyhopping was part of NS1 and a mechanic that made the game better, not worse. Every game I play now days, it feels like I have some type of hack installed on my computer, ranging from "radar" which allows you to know where the player is, to hit registry crosshairs, which lets you know your "hitting a target". I mean what happened to just being good? Why do you need to have a crosshair that lets you know your hitting somebody? I go in to BC2, I just randomly shoot rockets until I see the xhair blink and then I know guys are in there, so I just blast more until they die, it's pathetic.
I am just aggitated, that the market is being consumed and controlled by a community of newbs. These exact same noobs eat games inside and out from the core and are the very ones that will quit the game within 3/4 months and never return to it. They will go to another game, cry for the game to be watered down and function a certain way, game developers listen to them, bcause they sell out for money and then the players who want to stick around and enjoy skill based combat, are stuck with these trash gameplay mechanics for life.
Go play some Quake, NS1, CS and tell me they aren't the most amazing "feel" and "rewarding" games you have ever played. If only these games just had nex generation engines and sound mixed with that exact same feel... it would be mind blowing.
Unknownworlds, I really hope you guys don't sell out too much more, because at this point, I am starting to get turned off at the newb invasion on your forums and ingame. The part that makes it even worse is, you were the last company I expected to sell out, since from the start in Alpha, you said u would implement Bhopping, but now you say your not doing it. This is just a sign that you sold out to the masses of newbs on your forums that more than likely never even played NS1 to it's full extent. Anytime I go ingame and speak to old school vet, they are severely disappointed at the direction you have taken the game just to make some extra cash. I really hope you think these things through, or make some different modes for the game, like Tournament mode which is for hardcore players and softcore mode for the newbs that just pub all day long.
Anyways, Thats my 2cents, it has been a slice, I am sure I am going to get trolled and rolled for this post, simply because I am the miniority in the gaming industry that WANTS skill back in the games.
This discussion has been closed.
Comments
You're gonna get trolled and rolled for coming across an enormous bigot if anything.
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7VAhzPcZ-s" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7VAhzPcZ-s</a>
Enjoy Noob Effect.
I am saving this picture, wayyyyy too good lolololol
the current game already has ns and combat style gameplay mixed together which isn't good at all. Charlie said he wants to appeal to both type of players which is great but quality of the game suffers because of it. Their should be nothing wrong with ns2 having two completely different modes players can play, ns maps and combat maps both completely different from each other but not mixed together.
as for movement, oh yes - I couldn't agree more, I still play ns1 so I can't even imagine how would that even work on consoles. skill based movement always been part of ns1, you can hate it all you want but its been part of the game. Many want to hate it for the wrong reasons or in their minds right reasons but its just part of the game, its what defined some classes like the fade or skulk.
Whatever next? matchmaking and gamelobbies /shudder
Real gamers game with Atari 2600 controllers. All the rest of you are noobs.
the current game already has ns and combat style gameplay mixed together which isn't good at all. Charlie said he wants to appeal to both type of players which is great but quality of the game suffers because of it. Their should be nothing wrong with ns2 having two completely different modes players can play, ns maps and combat maps both completely different from each other but not mixed together.
as for movement, oh yes - I couldn't agree more, I still play ns1 so I can't even imagine how would that even work on consoles. skill based movement always been part of ns1, you can hate it all you want but its been part of the game. Many want to hate it for the wrong reasons or in their minds right reasons but its just part of the game, its what defined some classes like the fade or skulk.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Very well written, and I couldn't agree more.
Whatever next? matchmaking and gamelobbies /shudder<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's what I mean, that feeling of true skill, you could unlock 1 million achievements and it means absolutely nothing to me, but a single shot that is so percise and perfect in the heat of the moment, that is good skillbased gameplay.
Oh, hi! Why not check out the webcomic where that originated from?
<a href="http://www.nerfnow.com/comic/504" target="_blank">http://www.nerfnow.com/comic/504</a>
Where does it say that anyone playing NS2 has to have played NS1 to the 'full potential'?
As a tester ...remember NS2 = unfinished.
your focus should be more on attracting new users (people who did not play NS1)
your focus should be on playability, fun, map bugs, anything you can contribute.
and just because the forums are wailing with problems of jump spam does not mean the marines will not jump.
It might mean they try something...It might mean they try nothing...it is up to them.
They might try something and remove it.
It is more helpful to provide well thought criticism
example
<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=114216" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/in...howtopic=114216</a>
Do you see how the paragraph did not declare people as sellouts and request bunnyhopping (which the jump spam is not) be implemented.
That could be you.
and please do not declare UW as sellouts...
if the game releases with unicorns that shoot rainbow farts at zombies...then yeah maybe they are sellouts.
But they started a company out of their own savings.
They LOVE this game way way way more than you ever will.
please chill
My reason for wanting to get rid of marine jump spam isn't that it's hard to hit jumping marines as a skulk but rather that it looks silly. It was fixed in NS1 by adding a slow down on landing and apparently they're doing the same thing in the next build.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Seeing how NS2 development team has basically slowed NS2 down for xbox360 players already as it is, through speed and movement is kind of a disappointment in my eyes.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is the first time I've heard anyone complain about a game being "slowed down" to cater to console players. Usually it's the other way around where games are sped up and dumbed down due to console players' "shorter attention span".
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I mean the only reason why the fade works the way it does, is not because they don't want to implement bunnyhopping, but because they know xbox players won't be able to do it with their trashy controllers.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
They always wanted the fade to teleport and now they finally figured out a good way of implementing it. It's got nothing to do with trashy controllers but rather new engine, new possibilities.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You can call bhopping an exploit, a broken gameplay mechanic or whatever the case maybe. Fact is, Bunnyhopping was part of NS1 and a mechanic that made the game better, not worse.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I agree. The thing is, it doesn't make any sense to mimic a glitch from a 15 years old engine, and even if they tried it'd be very hard to get it right. I'd much rather see them implement a new, and intuitive, skill based movement system from the ground up.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->tl;dr<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Sorry, I just don't know where to start a response to all that. I told you my stance on bunny hopping and from what I've read UWE seem to be of the same opinion. "Newb invasion" is something you're going to have to live with in any new game. Making a hardcore game only targeted at NS1 vets would be suicide as an upstart company, and frankly I don't really know what you mean by them being "sell outs". So far you only mentioned the lack of bunny hopping and crosshair hit feedback. Neither of which I think are issues to throw a hissy fit about, least of all draw the line to console gamers.
Whatever next? matchmaking and gamelobbies /shudder<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Why would the skulk wield a shotgun? It is as silly as if skulks bunnied at marines with bite attack selected.
Intuitive? Skill-based? Words without meaning or substance that could have been uttered by one of those spokesmen promoting their new game as being 'new' and 'different', while in the end it's the same CoD-rubbish that's been done to death. We're stuck with a bland and rigid movement-mechanic right now that would fit right in with the current school of FPS-gameplay on consoles.
Sure perhaps bunnyhopping wasn't really intended behaviour for the GldSrc-engine, but that doesn't disqualify what it brings to the table, which is damn fun movement with a learning-curve. Currently NS2's movement is completely mastered within minutes\hours of gameplay, and doesn't go _ANYWHERE_ after that. It's a bore.
Saying it's catering to the consoles would not be a lie at this point, even though it is a PC-game (right now at least). I would enter the absolutely skill-less FT as additional evidence to that.
Apart from the fact that NS1 has a slowdown upon landing to avoid this very problem, just like CS and the vast majority of FPS games.
I understand your frustration as I think a lot of games are catering towards consoles and 'accessibility over depth' these days. I don't think NS2 is one of those games. Give it time, post your feedback on the forums and see how the game develops in the coming months.
you misunderstood what he meant.
he was referring to the movement speed being slowed down, as is common for consoles (compare halo movement to CS or Q3 etc) due to analog thumb-sticks (ew)
this is especially the case since otherwise it would be referring to pacing or hours of play and this is not a single player game.
the feel of games is the most important thing to focus on (hence why valve designs the gameplay and tests it before any props, textures, or mechanics are in place) this includes such things (theres a laundry list) that are often times today forgotten thanks to porting and "consolization" i.e. Mouse acceleration ... my ###### nemesis.
UWE thankfully is mindful of appeasing the once standard but now considered picky PC gamer crowd, and is constantly reworking said features. (181 is reworking some movement aspects it seems)
Quick UWE, hire this guy as Marketing Director! ###### the new people playing Natural Selection!
I'm not sure what you're referring to here. It's obvious that the current physics is just a place holder, there's no momentum and you have perfect air control. The devs have clearly stated that they are all for advanced player movement and so am I. What I'm saying is that instead of having silly discussions about whether bunny hopping is an exploit or not we should take the chance and try to come up with a new skill based movement system. I presented one such idea <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=113860&view=findpost&p=1860644" target="_blank">here</a> and I'm sure there are more out there.
I c wot u did thar. Still my point stands.
I certainly hope that many people who buy NS2 have never played NS1. Let alone played it to its 'full potential.' And for the sake of the people making the game, it would be nice if you did too.
Sounds like politics.
Fellow old school NS1 player here.
Bunnyhop was a terrible mechanic that simply increased Skulk's speed and was easily achieved through scripting.
To make people cry less and add in 'skill' based movement have the NS2.0 skulk base movement speed the same as usual but then have them begin to run faster until they cap out (Mirror's Edge) and can go at a faster than normal run speed until they attack or bump into something thereby making baseline Skulks more moble than any form of marine (exception Jetpack).
Similar properties to Bhop yet not as stupid.
Fellow old school NS1 player out.