The game needs metabolize/regeneration.

TrueVeritas

Playing fade right now is really, really boring since you have to run back to the hive every time you want to heal (along with all other lifeforms). It's part of the reason sentries delay the game so much.

Metabolize/regen would allow fades to base dive constantly and slowly knock away at sentries without constantly having to go back to the hive.

Thoughts?

Edit: Don't forget, metabolize also gave you energy back!

DJPenguin

hang with a gorge. the poor thing's already lost a lot of it's ability to build. bringing back the fade's ability to recuperate and the alien regen upgrade would just make him feel even less needed.

PsiWarp

Agreed with DJ. I remember them talking about adding increased energy regen for lifeforms on infestation, and where there's a Gorge, there's usually infestation.

TrueVeritas

<!--quoteo(post=1861793:date=Jul 19 2011, 09:23 PM:name=DJPenguin)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (DJPenguin @ Jul 19 2011, 09:23 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1861793"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->hang with a gorge. the poor thing's already lost a lot of it's ability to build. bringing back the fade's ability to recuperate and the alien regen upgrade would just make him feel even less needed.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

That's not a good reason to keep those abilities out of the game :/

IeptBarakat

I agree, makes the fighting feel drawn out and pointless when I have to keep running across the map to regenerate. And gorge health spray just can't keep up with a battle.

One would say the commander should be backing his teammates up with some crags, but it's difficult to infest the area and drop a crag in time to help players.

elpollo12

i think it is a good reason because it is teamplay. 2 fades and one gorge can do much damage with not much delay

aeroripper

PLEASE bring back metabolize. It really gives the fade a lot more tactical depth than having to run back to a gorge/hive after every encounter. I remember many tense battles in NS1 where it was hopeless attacking the whole marine team sieging the hive, so the lone fade had to hit marine start to force a beacon while the pin downed team waited for a beacon to clear out the siege.

Buddying with a gorge is all well and good pre-hive 2, but after that the fade needs mobility and the ability to strike targets around the map consistently. Gorges can still be part of the healing equation, but not required.

TrueVeritas

<!--quoteo(post=1861799:date=Jul 19 2011, 10:12 PM:name=aeroripper)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (aeroripper @ Jul 19 2011, 10:12 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1861799"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->PLEASE bring back metabolize. It really gives the fade a lot more tactical depth than having to run back to a gorge/hive after every encounter. I remember many tense battles in NS1 where it was hopeless attacking the whole marine team sieging the hive, so the lone fade had to hit marine start to force a beacon while the pin downed team waited for a beacon to clear out the siege.

Buddying with a gorge is all well and good pre-hive 2, but after that the fade needs mobility and the ability to strike targets around the map consistently. Gorges can still be part of the healing equation, but not required.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Gorges also heal a bit slower than regen/metabolize AND they run out of energy healing. Plus they can't bile when healing, making it a boring "stand in one spot and press one button" type deal.

( agreeing with you, just wanted to add to what you said d:> )

Lazer

I agree healspray seems a bit slow for most situations.

NurEinMensch

Also will we get adrenaline as an upgrade?

And--slightly off topic--will there be choices to be made when buying upgrades, or can we just buy every upgrade the commander unlocks? I liked how in NS1 you had to choose between the different upgrades the 3 chambers made available and couldn't get for example all 3 MC upgrades.

TrC

Gorge cant keep up with fades mobility, metabolize like ability would certainly help fades roam around the map instead of hive and point A.

Bacillus

On the other hand I'd really like to see the fade mindset and role innovated properly now that they've already done some things differently. Then again I'd find it quite disappointing to have the fade depend on gorges and chamber placement when NS2 seems to sacrifice so much interesting stuff just to make the game less team dependand in general.

Ender_74

Players are often claiming that team play is dead, but forcing Fades to rely on Gorges for healing and on skulks for destroying buildings (and Gorges with Bilebomb) is imho a good way to force players to play together.
If adrenaline is implemented a gorge could heal several Fades , who could cover more distance to find their Kharaa doc' so I think that would be enough.

IeptBarakat

Unfortunately with the gorge being unable to drop defense chambers, he has to spend all his energy trying to keep up with healing the team. So bile bomb isn't used as often as it should.

Shilorius

<!--quoteo(post=1861934:date=Jul 20 2011, 07:54 AM:name=Ender_74)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Ender_74 @ Jul 20 2011, 07:54 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1861934"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Players are often claiming that team play is dead, but forcing Fades to rely on Gorges for healing and on skulks for destroying buildings (and Gorges with Bilebomb) is imho a good way to force players to play together.
If adrenaline is implemented a gorge could heal several Fades , who could cover more distance to find their Kharaa doc' so I think that would be enough.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

1000% this

Just give us adrenaline (and even if it costs like 10 p-res)
..and I also like the fact that the fade is a marine killer, but needs help with destroying buildings.

Chris0132

An alien which has toggleable invincibity, flight, extreme mobility, kills in a couple of hits, and regenerates health?

Yeah that's not overpowered at all.

Chasing fades back to the hive is about the only thing marines can force them to do, they can't kill the fade if it's cautious, so removing its need to retreat seems pretty stupid.

TrueVeritas

<!--quoteo(post=1861990:date=Jul 20 2011, 03:04 PM:name=Chris0132)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Chris0132 @ Jul 20 2011, 03:04 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1861990"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->An alien which has toggleable invincibity, flight, extreme mobility, kills in a couple of hits, and regenerates health?

Yeah that's not overpowered at all.

Chasing fades back to the hive is about the only thing marines can force them to do, they can't kill the fade if it's cautious, so removing its need to retreat seems pretty stupid.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

... You don't really understand the point of regen/metabolize, do you? It doesn't remove the ability to chase fades. You can still chase fades just as easily (just like NS1).

Edit: I could actually see another solution to this problem would be buffing Gorges greatly to where healspray didn't use energy. I like the idea of promoting teamwork but the problem is if you don't have anyone going Gorge Fading becomes incredibly boring.

Chris0132

You can't chase fades at all, they're faster than you. If all a fade has to do to regenerate is just hide in a vent or move out of marine LOS they're going to be hideously overpowered, if marines have to chase every single fade every single time to kill them, how the hell are they going to compete? All they can do is chase them off back to the hive, if they can only do that to the next room or the nearest vent that's going to suck immensely.

Lazer

I think gorge buff is a much safer idea mainly because metabolize would make the fade way too powerful in small games. Larger games should have a gorge or two on hand anyway.

Sewlek

there is a difference between chasing a fade down to its hive and damage him once to make him retreat. second one requires the marines attention once, then they are able to deal with other things (another fade, skulk, etc.).

if the fade has metabolize, you have to constantly put the fade under pressure, and if there are multiple, well, chasing down will not work anymore (chase the first and run in the claws of the others). the fades would become much much stronger in higher numbers than they are now

edit: having a gorge in the mix brings a similar result, with the difference that the gorge is easily killable

Rulgrok

Make it a T3(3 hives) upgrade and I totally agree. Right now the system for regenerating health on the alien team kind of sucks.

Chris0132

<!--quoteo(post=1862047:date=Jul 21 2011, 12:58 AM:name=Schimmel)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Schimmel @ Jul 21 2011, 12:58 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1862047"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->there is a difference between chasing a fade down to its hive and damage him once to make him retreat. second one requires the marines attention once, then they are able to deal with other things (another fade, skulk, etc.).

if the fade has metabolize, you have to constantly put the fade under pressure, and if there are multiple, well, chasing down will not work anymore (chase the first and run in the claws of the others). the fades would become much much stronger in higher numbers than they are now

edit: having a gorge in the mix brings a similar result, with the difference that the gorge is easily killable<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Exactly, gorges and crags are things you can push back, if they are retreatin to a forward base you can push them to the base and kill it, and then they have to retreat back to the hive.

If any alcove or hiding spot will do, you can't push aliens back any more, because you can't kill their healing units, because their healing units are bits of map geometry.

Petco

<!--quoteo(post=1861939:date=Jul 20 2011, 07:16 AM:name=IeptBarakat)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (IeptBarakat @ Jul 20 2011, 07:16 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1861939"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Unfortunately with the gorge being unable to drop defense chambers, he has to spend all his energy trying to keep up with healing the team. So bile bomb isn't used as often as it should.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

It'd be neat if gorges could drop chambers again (weaker versions of crag, shade, for example) even outside of infestation for a mobile gorge fortress.

Sewlek

<!--quoteo(post=1862048:date=Jul 20 2011, 08:00 PM:name=Rulgrok)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Rulgrok @ Jul 20 2011, 08:00 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1862048"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Make it a T3(3 hives) upgrade and I totally agree. Right now the system for regenerating health on the alien team kind of sucks.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

that would be an option, i always thought of hive 3 abilities should be superior or alter the playstyle of
the life-form. metabolize as hive 3 would serve both: makes hit&run much better and you can also
engange more directly against some limited number of enemies (you are still not an onos).

im also against the current mechanic which requires some amount of hives to unlock higher life-forms, id prefer clearly the ns1's system, but thats another story (but i like the fact that alien comm has to manually upgrade the bile-bomb ability for his gorges)

aeroripper

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You can't chase fades at all, they're faster than you. If all a fade has to do to regenerate is just hide in a vent or move out of marine LOS they're going to be hideously overpowered, if marines have to chase every single fade every single time to kill them, how the hell are they going to compete? All they can do is chase them off back to the hive, if they can only do that to the next room or the nearest vent that's going to suck immensely.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

I'm not sure if you played NS1, but this wasn't as big of a problem as you make it seem. Fades often needed team coordination to take down, especially once they hit hive 2. Passing out shotties when the fade first appears, hitting alien RTs, blocking doorways, setting up ambushes, and silent beacons were all ways to blunt the impact of a skilled fade. You needed to concentrate on delaying the second hive as long as possible and denying them RTs so if a fade did appear, the player would not be able to afford another one soon if he died. Marines CAN make life difficult for a fade by welding each other, having a proficient comm medding them, and getting upgrades. Metabolize allowed fades to compete with upgraded marines in the mid-late game.

NS2 is a different beast than NS1, but the role of fade should be that of a surgical striker, and metabolize helps him do that efficiently. It's hard to say how it'll turn out since the game isn't feature complete, and metabolize may be replaced by some other ability. The game for aliens may not revolve around the fade as heavily as it did in NS1.