fanaticThis post has been edited.Join Date: 2003-07-23Member: 18377Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
<!--quoteo(post=1883913:date=Nov 6 2011, 03:05 AM:name=l3lessed)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (l3lessed @ Nov 6 2011, 03:05 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1883913"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The original NS vision wasn't that great. It merely made things transparent, both alien and human. It just cleaned up all the clutter so you could see marines through it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> The NS1 alien vision was fantastic. It didn't have any fancy effects of course -- but at least it wasn't annoying to have to look at all the time for the player either. It allowed you to see the marines clearly in dark environments, with is the primary purpose of alien vision as it's basically the alien flashlight. It had the added advantage of being able to see through alien structures, which was a great advantage in certain situations. Hiding "inside" alien RTs, waiting for the marine coming to knife it to get close was pretty much a guaranteed kill.
SewlekThe programmer previously known as SchimmelJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16247Members, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Gold, Subnautica Developer
edited November 2011
to be honest i'm not sure what's planed for alien vision. i just know that it's not final (what you currently have in build 187). but i have to disagree that alien vision affects your adrenaline is an elegent solution. i would rather prefer that it turns off automatically or something like that. nevertheless, i played a bit more with some values (increased shader intensity), the result looks somehow interesting:
SewlekThe programmer previously known as SchimmelJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16247Members, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Gold, Subnautica Developer
<!--quoteo(post=1884016:date=Nov 6 2011, 11:28 PM:name=Erriiieeee)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Erriiieeee @ Nov 6 2011, 11:28 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1884016"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->That's brilliant! This version maintains the complete overlay but makes it a lot more interesting than what we have now.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
thanks! i like it as well, but i got lots of critizism from all sides as you can imagine :) interesting was:
most people who play the game public / competitive (yeh, i already call it competitive!) don't like it, since it limits their vision most mappers, graphic artists / designers like it
hopefully i will have time again to sit down and find a middle to make both sides happy
IeptBarakatThe most difficult name to speak ingame.Join Date: 2009-07-10Member: 68107Members, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow
My only issue is the extreme black levels caused by the negative lighting. Though I'm sure it will look awesome in a dark room with marines shining their flashlights.
<!--quoteo(post=1883914:date=Nov 6 2011, 03:37 AM:name=Koruyo)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Koruyo @ Nov 6 2011, 03:37 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1883914"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The thing is - its not really nightvision, its sonar... (not that this couldnt be changed, but nightvision is too mainstream :P)
Thats why it makes sense that aliens can turn it on and off. (since they also have eyes, alien sonar is kinda their inner eye)
My idea was, if aliens rest a bit they can focus more and so their sonar gets better for some time...if shot, especially explosions rapidly worse blabla etc.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It would be pretty cool if it somehow seems like it's only the sonar that is getting distorted by movement etc, while the basic vision in the background remains normal besides being a bit obstructed by the sonar vision.
The problem is skulks and fades are solid melee. Alien flashlight isn't so much needed for dark environments as it is for tracking targets in close quarters.
In NS1 the problem wasn't as pronounced, levels were plainer so models popped out, and alien flashlight countered the close quarter melee requirement well- in terms of target tracking.
In NS2 not only is the problem worse, complex textures and greyscale colour schemes against greyscale models, but alien flash has been built around "dark environments" rather than for target tracking. The result is that combat is random, spammy affair as aliens loose track of marines. Coupled with the inferior sound tracking it takes alot of the elegance and precision out of alien combat.
There needs to be either- better alien vision- or a flashlight based around target tracking and not dark environments.
<- Also in the camp that doesn't believe there needs to be a trade-off to use alien vision. I think the modified vision mode looks fantastic, and the artwork doesn't suffer (like in Arkham Asylum) as it remains visible (albeit manipulated). Actually, I wouldn't mind if it were always-on. A different default vision would also differentiate the Frontiersmen and Kharaa, which is a nice side-benefit. Also: this should be available to the alien commander.
<!--quoteo(post=1860371:date=Jul 13 2011, 02:41 PM:name=twiliteblue)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (twiliteblue @ Jul 13 2011, 02:41 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1860371"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><img src="http://img832.imageshack.us/img832/5880/ns2darkvision02.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /> Dark room with modified Dark Vision<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is nice :) I feel the current lot is just too yellow and when the lights come on you don't even realise and end up getting shot. I would like to see a little more of an alien feel to the image still. Invert the colours as well as the over lay maybe, it might be too much white. Or maybe blacks become yellow and where light hits a surface the surface colour remains with Marines and structures remaining orange - I think that would work really nicely, because as the room gets lighter the yellow would go from your screen and you would know to hide.
The other thing I want to see, is the feeling of your eyes changing. The current way that NS2 does the change feels like a game, I think a blink would almost make more scenes or some kind of blur. Like the Aliens eyes actually change shape or a lens cover (as seen in Alligators or Crocodiles use when the go underwater) come down over the aliens eyes. Maybe the screen becomes slightly rounded or blurred at the edges, or a liquid effect goes down the screen for a second as it changes. The way it works now feels like a game mechanic rather than something the alien can do at will.
<!--quoteo(post=1883945:date=Nov 6 2011, 12:17 PM:name=Schimmel)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Schimmel @ Nov 6 2011, 12:17 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1883945"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->to be honest i'm not sure what's planed for alien vision. i just know that it's not final (what you currently have in build 187)...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Schimmel yours are a too acid trippy to be helpful or playable imho. Sorry dude.
<!--quoteo(post=1888166:date=Dec 3 2011, 05:39 PM:name=Harimau)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Harimau @ Dec 3 2011, 05:39 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1888166"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The alien vision mode is described as being a form of active sonar.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Hmm... So how do we translate this into the game? Doppler effect while moving? Pulsed intensity of the feedback? Something to note is that you could probably recognize different materials due to their elasticity. So for example you could tell a wall from a organic unit not only from the shape, but the "sound signature" it reflects.
Tracking better in combat; something close to you would have massivly increased intensity compared to something afar. Not only is it closer, but it takes up alot larged portion of the sphere, thus reflects more sound. If you want a drawback for alienvision, I think it would be good if it actually didn't have any indication of light what so ever. Sonar couldn't notice the difference betwean a lit and a dark room. That's ofcourse assuming that the Kharaa don't have the cognitive ability to use both vision and sonar simultaneously.
Proposed characteristics <ul><li>No indication of light</li><li>Different color for background+marine structures/Kharaa+their structures/Marines.</li><li>Greatly increased intensity/contrast on up-close objects.</li></ul>
Anyone know how to change the actual effects of alien vision (screenEffects.darkVision)? Looking in Player_Client.lua, it appears to be a shader... how accessible is that sort of thing for a beginner to change?
I don't think it's very hard if you know a bit of image processing and you have some example, the problem is that the shader files do not seems to be accessible "shaders/DarkVision.screenfx", I looked a while ago and didn't found anything.
twilitebluebug stalkerJoin Date: 2003-02-04Member: 13116Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
edited February 2012
Nice video Arkanti! I love your choice of music.
What intensity are you using for alien Dark Vision? That custom crosshair looks very useful. I'll remember to grab it.
Is that the newest Lerk mod? I don't remember the Lerk being that maneuverable in b197. (Edit: Nevermind it was b197. I didn't know you can circle strafe like that!)
<!--quoteo(post=1906540:date=Feb 24 2012, 09:42 PM:name=twiliteblue)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (twiliteblue @ Feb 24 2012, 09:42 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1906540"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Nice video Arkanti! I love your choice of music.
What intensity are you using for alien Dark Vision? That custom crosshair looks very useful. I'll remember to grab it.
Is that the newest Lerk mod? I don't remember the Lerk being that maneuverable in b197. (Edit: Nevermind it was b197. I didn't know you can circle strafe like that!)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm just using your recommended .5 from the example, haven't even tried fiddling with it yet.
And yeah, circle strafing is possible just quite difficult to maintain, that's why I was somewhat worried at first with your lerk revisions because I thought it might reduce the skill ceiling required to pull off some of the moves. Although you have made circle strafing easier, I think that with the extra movement finesse you gave the lerk we'd still be able to see the better players shine.
<!--quoteo(post=1906800:date=Feb 24 2012, 11:59 PM:name=Dusteh)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dusteh @ Feb 24 2012, 11:59 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1906800"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Love this mod, so much better than the default version, should definitely be implemented.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Agree...I'd seen this and known about it for a while but just got around to actually using it....and omg the game looks so much prettier! :) It also has practical uses too, you can see things/marines much easier while blinking with a Fade, and currently you can't see see the flames from a Flamethrower, or your own bile bomb as a Gorge, etc with the default alien flashlight and so I think this mod is great.
<!--quoteo(post=1883945:date=Nov 6 2011, 12:17 PM:name=Schimmel)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Schimmel @ Nov 6 2011, 12:17 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1883945"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->edit: i palyed a little bit public with that customization:
<center><object width="450" height="356"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/uV-_5L6go0o"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/uV-_5L6go0o" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="450" height="356"></embed></object></center><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> looks fun but i would not like it, because you can't see well.
ÒŗăNģёJoin Date: 2012-02-09Member: 144437Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
Thought I would share my take on this. I enjoy the alien vision atm but its fun to slightly tweak it to still get the great textures of this game into it.
<!--quoteo(post=1898889:date=Feb 2 2012, 12:09 PM:name=Soul_Rider)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Soul_Rider @ Feb 2 2012, 12:09 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1898889"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I believe the shaders are written in C++ and just linked to from the lua code. DX9 Shader programming is not simple for a beginner. :)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Shaders are written in their own language based on C. For OpenGL the shader language is called GLSL, and for DirectX it's called HLSL. There are also some cinematic shader lanugages RenderMan's RSL which Pixar uses for their movies.
ÒŗăNģёJoin Date: 2012-02-09Member: 144437Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
I'm not the best coder in the world, hell I haven't even touched code in over 7years.. but I'm just wondering if anyone knows if its possible to change the "Green" aspect of alien vision to maybe a reddish tone while on fire or just taking damage in general.
<!--quoteo(post=1883846:date=Nov 5 2011, 10:54 AM:name=Schimmel)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Schimmel @ Nov 5 2011, 10:54 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1883846"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->just had an idea how i could add in without much effort a downside to alien vision:
Has anyone gotten this to work in 199? Am I retarded? It reverted the tweaks on patch and I went in and rechanged it exactly according to the OP (like I did before) and it won't work for me anymore :/ stuck with the vanilla alien flashlight.
Comments
The NS1 alien vision was fantastic. It didn't have any fancy effects of course -- but at least it wasn't annoying to have to look at all the time for the player either. It allowed you to see the marines clearly in dark environments, with is the primary purpose of alien vision as it's basically the alien flashlight. It had the added advantage of being able to see through alien structures, which was a great advantage in certain situations. Hiding "inside" alien RTs, waiting for the marine coming to knife it to get close was pretty much a guaranteed kill.
@koruyo, thats a good idea, i will try that as well
NS1 was perfect, but if its change for change sake, make it drain adrenaline, or lower the max adrenaline.
Better than deliberately building in annoying flaws.
NS1 was perfect, but if its change for change sake, make it drain adrenaline, or lower the max adrenaline.
Better than deliberately building in annoying flaws.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Lowering max adrenaline sounds like a very good idea! And with upgrades on the Shade that penalty could be lowered, or something.
I'm not against the shader effect, but it seems like an optional solution rather than the elegant one.
<center><object width="450" height="356"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/kYmUPGLVP-Y"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/kYmUPGLVP-Y" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="450" height="356"></embed></object></center>
edit: i palyed a little bit public with that customization:
<center><object width="450" height="356"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/uV-_5L6go0o"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/uV-_5L6go0o" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="450" height="356"></embed></object></center>
thanks! i like it as well, but i got lots of critizism from all sides as you can imagine :) interesting was:
most people who play the game public / competitive (yeh, i already call it competitive!) don't like it, since it limits their vision
most mappers, graphic artists / designers like it
hopefully i will have time again to sit down and find a middle to make both sides happy
Thats why it makes sense that aliens can turn it on and off. (since they also have eyes, alien sonar is kinda their inner eye)
My idea was, if aliens rest a bit they can focus more and so their sonar gets better for some time...if shot, especially explosions rapidly worse blabla etc.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It would be pretty cool if it somehow seems like it's only the sonar that is getting distorted by movement etc, while the basic vision in the background remains normal besides being a bit obstructed by the sonar vision.
In NS1 the problem wasn't as pronounced, levels were plainer so models popped out, and alien flashlight countered the close quarter melee requirement well- in terms of target tracking.
In NS2 not only is the problem worse, complex textures and greyscale colour schemes against greyscale models, but alien flash has been built around "dark environments" rather than for target tracking. The result is that combat is random, spammy affair as aliens loose track of marines. Coupled with the inferior sound tracking it takes alot of the elegance and precision out of alien combat.
There needs to be either- better alien vision- or a flashlight based around target tracking and not dark environments.
Actually, I wouldn't mind if it were always-on. A different default vision would also differentiate the Frontiersmen and Kharaa, which is a nice side-benefit.
Also: this should be available to the alien commander.
Dark room with modified Dark Vision<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is nice :) I feel the current lot is just too yellow and when the lights come on you don't even realise and end up getting shot. I would like to see a little more of an alien feel to the image still. Invert the colours as well as the over lay maybe, it might be too much white. Or maybe blacks become yellow and where light hits a surface the surface colour remains with Marines and structures remaining orange - I think that would work really nicely, because as the room gets lighter the yellow would go from your screen and you would know to hide.
The other thing I want to see, is the feeling of your eyes changing. The current way that NS2 does the change feels like a game, I think a blink would almost make more scenes or some kind of blur. Like the Aliens eyes actually change shape or a lens cover (as seen in Alligators or Crocodiles use when the go underwater) come down over the aliens eyes. Maybe the screen becomes slightly rounded or blurred at the edges, or a liquid effect goes down the screen for a second as it changes. The way it works now feels like a game mechanic rather than something the alien can do at will.
<!--quoteo(post=1883945:date=Nov 6 2011, 12:17 PM:name=Schimmel)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Schimmel @ Nov 6 2011, 12:17 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1883945"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->to be honest i'm not sure what's planed for alien vision. i just know that it's not final (what you currently have in build 187)...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Schimmel yours are a too acid trippy to be helpful or playable imho. Sorry dude.
The alien vision mode is described as being a form of active sonar.
Hmm... So how do we translate this into the game? Doppler effect while moving? Pulsed intensity of the feedback? Something to note is that you could probably recognize different materials due to their elasticity. So for example you could tell a wall from a organic unit not only from the shape, but the "sound signature" it reflects.
Tracking better in combat; something close to you would have massivly increased intensity compared to something afar. Not only is it closer, but it takes up alot larged portion of the sphere, thus reflects more sound. If you want a drawback for alienvision, I think it would be good if it actually didn't have any indication of light what so ever. Sonar couldn't notice the difference betwean a lit and a dark room. That's ofcourse assuming that the Kharaa don't have the cognitive ability to use both vision and sonar simultaneously.
Proposed characteristics
<ul><li>No indication of light</li><li>Different color for background+marine structures/Kharaa+their structures/Marines.</li><li>Greatly increased intensity/contrast on up-close objects.</li></ul>
is that the shader files do not seems to be accessible "shaders/DarkVision.screenfx", I looked a while ago and didn't found anything.
<center><object width="450" height="356"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/zyyLPyXRoxY"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/zyyLPyXRoxY" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="450" height="356"></embed></object></center>
What intensity are you using for alien Dark Vision? That custom crosshair looks very useful. I'll remember to grab it.
Is that the newest Lerk mod? I don't remember the Lerk being that maneuverable in b197. (Edit: Nevermind it was b197. I didn't know you can circle strafe like that!)
What intensity are you using for alien Dark Vision? That custom crosshair looks very useful. I'll remember to grab it.
Is that the newest Lerk mod? I don't remember the Lerk being that maneuverable in b197. (Edit: Nevermind it was b197. I didn't know you can circle strafe like that!)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm just using your recommended .5 from the example, haven't even tried fiddling with it yet.
And yeah, circle strafing is possible just quite difficult to maintain, that's why I was somewhat worried at first with your lerk revisions because I thought it might reduce the skill ceiling required to pull off some of the moves. Although you have made circle strafing easier, I think that with the extra movement finesse you gave the lerk we'd still be able to see the better players shine.
Agree...I'd seen this and known about it for a while but just got around to actually using it....and omg the game looks so much prettier! :) It also has practical uses too, you can see things/marines much easier while blinking with a Fade, and currently you can't see see the flames from a Flamethrower, or your own bile bomb as a Gorge, etc with the default alien flashlight and so I think this mod is great.
<center><object width="450" height="356"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/uV-_5L6go0o"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/uV-_5L6go0o" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="450" height="356"></embed></object></center><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
looks fun but i would not like it, because you can't see well.
<center><object width="450" height="356"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/DE3bhzjfI0Q"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/DE3bhzjfI0Q" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="450" height="356"></embed></object></center>
Shaders are written in their own language based on C. For OpenGL the shader language is called GLSL, and for DirectX it's called HLSL. There are also some cinematic shader lanugages RenderMan's RSL which Pixar uses for their movies.
If anyone knows please post! :)
<center><object width="450" height="356"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/RAAgIBTtc1E"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/RAAgIBTtc1E" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="450" height="356"></embed></object></center><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I like the original tweak and this one somewhat. I'd prefer the distortion to be toned down a bit, though, or occur mostly if being injured.
If the vision is also for tracking, why not have sonar ripples? Basically using the circle blip but with a slight trail following the marine.