Flame Thrower Cripple Effect
Sewlek
The programmer previously known as Schimmel Join Date: 2003-05-13 Member: 16247Members, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Gold, Subnautica Developer
The programmer previously known as Schimmel Join Date: 2003-05-13 Member: 16247Members, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Gold, Subnautica Developer
<div class="IPBDescription">define the weapon's role more clearly</div>hey i read this recently in another topic:
<!--quoteo(post=1858108:date=Jul 5 2011, 09:07 AM:name=OutlawDr)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (OutlawDr @ Jul 5 2011, 09:07 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1858108"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->structure on fire could effectively stop functioning (or at least function a lot less efficiently). That means hydras would stop shooting (or shoot less), whips stop hitting (hit less), harvesters stop res production (produce less)..and so on.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
and i thought that is a really nice idea which is worth having its own thread to talk about.
I have in general some issues with the flame thrower, but also some ideas to fix them:
1) the dot effect is way too strong, im talking about duration and time:
make the duration FIXED, this random stuff simulates realism better, but
random numbers suck in an FPS (UWE always claims ns2 is mainly FPS then RTS)
fix it at 5 seconds
2) the damage application of the flame thrower should be changed. i was reading that
there are thoughts about changing the skulk bite: the longer you hit a target, the higher
the damage done per bite will be. to give him, especially in the late game, something where he is
better in than a fade (chomp lonely RTs). This mechanic would fit perfectly for the flame thrower aswell,
and would make also sense:
when you hit a target, each x seconds (0.5 - 1.5?), it receives a debuff. this debuff stacks up 6? times,
increasing fire damage taken by 10%? and lasts 5 seconds. during this 5 seconds the target will
take additional damage (our dot effect every x second) + the cripple effect. Remember that the
debuff will become stronger and stronger the longer you hit a target, meaning the direct damage
and the dot effect increase
3) the cripple effect is right now the best side of the flame thrower. at least i like this idea,
it gives that weapon a purpose. as written above, i would like to see this effect extended
to all structures aswell, and altered for players:
when an alien player is on fire, change energy cost for all abilities to 200% (or higher) instead
of preventing energy regeneration. i think this mechanic would play out more intuitive
for aliens (and marines), since aliens who are set on fire, but initiated the combat with full
energy, can behave almost the same as before and FT users in such situations cant understand why their
weapon sucks so much. on the other side, aliens without energy, and are hitted just
once by the FT + having bad luck with the random duration are dead. they cannot escape
anymore, even if they are on full health
tell me what you think about! :)
<!--quoteo(post=1858108:date=Jul 5 2011, 09:07 AM:name=OutlawDr)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (OutlawDr @ Jul 5 2011, 09:07 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1858108"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->structure on fire could effectively stop functioning (or at least function a lot less efficiently). That means hydras would stop shooting (or shoot less), whips stop hitting (hit less), harvesters stop res production (produce less)..and so on.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
and i thought that is a really nice idea which is worth having its own thread to talk about.
I have in general some issues with the flame thrower, but also some ideas to fix them:
1) the dot effect is way too strong, im talking about duration and time:
make the duration FIXED, this random stuff simulates realism better, but
random numbers suck in an FPS (UWE always claims ns2 is mainly FPS then RTS)
fix it at 5 seconds
2) the damage application of the flame thrower should be changed. i was reading that
there are thoughts about changing the skulk bite: the longer you hit a target, the higher
the damage done per bite will be. to give him, especially in the late game, something where he is
better in than a fade (chomp lonely RTs). This mechanic would fit perfectly for the flame thrower aswell,
and would make also sense:
when you hit a target, each x seconds (0.5 - 1.5?), it receives a debuff. this debuff stacks up 6? times,
increasing fire damage taken by 10%? and lasts 5 seconds. during this 5 seconds the target will
take additional damage (our dot effect every x second) + the cripple effect. Remember that the
debuff will become stronger and stronger the longer you hit a target, meaning the direct damage
and the dot effect increase
3) the cripple effect is right now the best side of the flame thrower. at least i like this idea,
it gives that weapon a purpose. as written above, i would like to see this effect extended
to all structures aswell, and altered for players:
when an alien player is on fire, change energy cost for all abilities to 200% (or higher) instead
of preventing energy regeneration. i think this mechanic would play out more intuitive
for aliens (and marines), since aliens who are set on fire, but initiated the combat with full
energy, can behave almost the same as before and FT users in such situations cant understand why their
weapon sucks so much. on the other side, aliens without energy, and are hitted just
once by the FT + having bad luck with the random duration are dead. they cannot escape
anymore, even if they are on full health
tell me what you think about! :)
Comments
I agree..FT does need a defined role (other than just the infestation remover)
As for your three ideas...
1) Many people here are starting to agree that the variable length of the DoT doesn't really add anything to the game. I'd rather have a set amount of time. If we want variable lengths, don't make them random. Perhaps the dot lasts longer the longer the player it hit by the flames (or with each debuff stacked on...as in your 2nd idea).
2) I like this idea. Increasing/stacking the damage a FT does on a player slowly over time (somewhat similar to the void ray from SC2) would give the FT unique gameplay and set it clearly apart from other weapons. Aliens could have a good chance against a FT marine in the first moments of engagement, but starts favoring the marine as it prolongs. This means a FT marine in a squad supporting him will be exponentially more effective than a solo FT marine that can be taken out much more easily.
I would also add that the bebuff application should be determined by the player/structure and not the FT itself. In other words a player can only receive a FT debuff application every 0.5-1.5secs...instead of each FT applying a debuff every 0.5-1.5secs. I don't want multiple flamethrowers being super effective. Ideally, I would like to see a FT being very useful in a squad, but with more than one it starts becoming a bit redundant.
3) The current energy crippling affect on alien players is unsatisfying, and your idea seems much better. Its less frustrating for the alien player and more consistent for the marine player. a win/win
Implement a % chance to CATCH Fire on each hit, that scales with your Armor%. This removes the Exploding Paper Entities phenomena, wherein anything that looks at a Flamethrower immediately catches fire.
And while this suggestion is prone to griefing, I think the appeal of Fire should be it's capacity to spread, so allowing OnFire entities to deal Flame damage to nearby allied units would further distinguish it from other weapons.
I agree with those problems associated with the Flamethrower you listed. Build 179 made the FT a very frustrating weapon to face for Kharaa. The crippling flame effect is too easy to apply, and the -90% energy regen penalty is simply too powerful.
I agree with those problems associated with the Flamethrower you listed. Build 179 made the FT a very frustrating weapon to face for Kharaa. The crippling flame effect is too easy to apply, and the -90% energy regen penalty is simply too powerful.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It is annoying when a lone rambo with a flamer is able to completely disable a fade to the point that you cant even swipe at him
Swipe at whom?