Savage 2
<div class="IPBDescription">Why is it so boring ?</div>If you didn't played Savage 2, go play it. It's free and it's easy to get in, there is a tutorial and a nice voice tip system (each time you use something new a voice explain to you what it is, how it's working, etc).
<a href="http://www.savage2.com/en/main.php" target="_blank">http://www.savage2.com/en/main.php</a>
Here is the description from wikipedia :
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Savage 2 combines RTS, FPS and RPG aspects into its gameplay. The game is played with 2 teams (the Legion of Man and the Beast Horde) fighting against each other on a large playing field in an attempt to eventually destroy the durable command center of the enemy team, thereby winning the game. The game is played in rounds, and no benefits carry over from each match, despite the RPG elements present in each match.
Most of the players on each team are "action players", fighting the other teams action players on the field, using powerful third person melee and weaker first person ranged combat. The action players can choose from a selection of unique units to play as, and may earn gold from their actions on the field, which in turn may be either donated to the team, spent on useful items in an RPG fashion, or used to buy more powerful units.
On each team, there is one "commander" player, seeing the game from a top-down RTS perspective. From there the commander can issue orders to the action players, cast spells on both teams action players and build structures for the team. Different structures act as spawnpoints, gold mines and technology buildings which unlock more units, abilities and items for the action players. Buildings require gold to be built, which, in addition to being donated by the action players, can be extracted from gold nodes across the map by constructing gold mines on them. Normal buildings may be attacked and destroyed by action players, though the loss of these is normally only a setback whereas the destruction of the command centre results in the loss of the match.
In addition to the commander and the action players, there are "officers". Officers are action players who are the leaders of a small group of other action players; known as "squads". A team may have several squads depending on the amount of players in the match. Squad officers have improved statistics, and also offers some of those bonuses to its squad if they are near him. The squad officer may also issue orders to its squad, much like the commander can to the whole team. In addition, the squad officer is able to instantly place small, temporary and fragile spawnpoints for his squad.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I've played it like one week (player and commander) and then I got very bored, but I can't really explain why. The game is really well done, combat mechanics are quite complex (you have both melee and ranged weapons, you are able to sprint, charge, block, make combos and use various abilities). The commander is quite boring, you need like 20 APM to play it. You have to build the tech-tree (almost linear) and drop buffs on your players. The players are very autonomous, they get personal resources, can buy lifeforms, spend xp points and buy some items.
Well, here is some questions for you :
1. Do you think this game is boring ?
2. What makes it boring (or not) ?
3. What are the good/bad aspects of the game.
The idea of course is to discuss it in the context of NS2, what should we avoid or copy in NS2, etc...
<a href="http://www.savage2.com/en/main.php" target="_blank">http://www.savage2.com/en/main.php</a>
Here is the description from wikipedia :
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Savage 2 combines RTS, FPS and RPG aspects into its gameplay. The game is played with 2 teams (the Legion of Man and the Beast Horde) fighting against each other on a large playing field in an attempt to eventually destroy the durable command center of the enemy team, thereby winning the game. The game is played in rounds, and no benefits carry over from each match, despite the RPG elements present in each match.
Most of the players on each team are "action players", fighting the other teams action players on the field, using powerful third person melee and weaker first person ranged combat. The action players can choose from a selection of unique units to play as, and may earn gold from their actions on the field, which in turn may be either donated to the team, spent on useful items in an RPG fashion, or used to buy more powerful units.
On each team, there is one "commander" player, seeing the game from a top-down RTS perspective. From there the commander can issue orders to the action players, cast spells on both teams action players and build structures for the team. Different structures act as spawnpoints, gold mines and technology buildings which unlock more units, abilities and items for the action players. Buildings require gold to be built, which, in addition to being donated by the action players, can be extracted from gold nodes across the map by constructing gold mines on them. Normal buildings may be attacked and destroyed by action players, though the loss of these is normally only a setback whereas the destruction of the command centre results in the loss of the match.
In addition to the commander and the action players, there are "officers". Officers are action players who are the leaders of a small group of other action players; known as "squads". A team may have several squads depending on the amount of players in the match. Squad officers have improved statistics, and also offers some of those bonuses to its squad if they are near him. The squad officer may also issue orders to its squad, much like the commander can to the whole team. In addition, the squad officer is able to instantly place small, temporary and fragile spawnpoints for his squad.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I've played it like one week (player and commander) and then I got very bored, but I can't really explain why. The game is really well done, combat mechanics are quite complex (you have both melee and ranged weapons, you are able to sprint, charge, block, make combos and use various abilities). The commander is quite boring, you need like 20 APM to play it. You have to build the tech-tree (almost linear) and drop buffs on your players. The players are very autonomous, they get personal resources, can buy lifeforms, spend xp points and buy some items.
Well, here is some questions for you :
1. Do you think this game is boring ?
2. What makes it boring (or not) ?
3. What are the good/bad aspects of the game.
The idea of course is to discuss it in the context of NS2, what should we avoid or copy in NS2, etc...
Comments
What he said.
Also I remember the press release claiming the merge of FPS and RTS which had NEVER been done.
Which it had...
almost like that press release from Unreal claiming a FIRST integrated VoIP ...which Valve had for years.
anyways....
Things to avoid.
Combat is same on both sides
NS and NS2 have always gone that ranged vs. melee approach. I am not worried about that.
Grinding
Savage 2 had these NPC like characters that you could fight and up your stats.
What would happen in games is people would spend a good chunk of the game grinding before playing the game.
Lame Tech Tree
NS2's tech tree is still evolving. I can't really make a call. But at this incomplete point it is better than Savage.
Things to adopt
RTS/FPS that's a cool idea NS2 should do that...oh wait they did
um...I got nothing.
Also I agree with the people above me. Both sides are exactly the same.
But for me it was especially boring because there is no atmosphere in the game. Just grab your stuff and go kill something (with useless ranged weapons.. you have to go in close combat to do some damage).
In NS2 is the atmosphere so big.. you can almost cut it with a sword.
And NS(2) is full of epic moments like
- Hiding in a corner with low health and suddently see a shadow next to you. The next thing you hear is the hissing of the fade..
- All marines are shooting the last hive, but two aliens manage to sneak off and destroy the IP and CC.
- A injured fade tries to excape and blinks right in front of your shotgun..
..and so on.
Savage doesn't have that.
Something I really liked in Savage 2 is the voice tips, it's much better than text ones. The ability for the comm to draw on the minimap is also nice.
In the similarities, in Savage 2 the comm can spawn builders (mac/drifter) to build, some players classes can build as well.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->But why is this in NS2 General Discussion?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I tough it could be interesting to compare NS2 to a very similar game, maybe we can learn something. In particular some controversial aspects of NS2 (decoupling of commander and team, building bots, spawn portal, ...) are implemented in Savage 2, but from what people say they don't seem to be the reason why the game is boring.
Meh, there are more games out there which seem quite similar to NS2 though. A thread a while back contained a list of these, doesn't make it any less off-topic :P
You speak the truth.
I think there's a lesson to be learned here.
However I agree that the commander side of the game can get pretty dull as the game progresses... FPS/RTS never require huge mechanical skills for the commander and mechanics are usually more important in strategy games than the actual strategy which is where the skill and fun comes from the game.
hmm sounds familiar NS1 > NS2 (So far anyway, because its gradually heading back down the ns1 path)
I find NS and NS2 to be drastically different from the Savage series of games, despite the simple similarity of FPS and RTS blending.
Which bring up the point that S2 Games continues to randomly fail at programming stability with HoN. =p
<a href="http://www.savage2.com/en/tutorial/" target="_blank">http://www.savage2.com/en/tutorial/</a>
I'm sure it would be easier than coding an in-game tutorial, even though I think a 'Commander Simulator' would be awesome for ppl scared of the com chair like myself!