My map keeps displacing itself

zastelszastels Join Date: 2003-11-29 Member: 23731Members
edited May 2011 in Mapping
<div class="IPBDescription">Things are breaking once I finish them</div>I have vertices in the middle of nowhere, lines in the middle of nowhere. I place models, and they just mysteriously displace themselves once I go on to work on other things.

I'm new to this, and I don't want to blame the tools, but I'm spending a huge amount of time trying to fix things I've already finished with. I'm also having major issues getting everything to stay on the grid, even when never going below 16 in size. Things just refuse to align even when clearly they should.

Am I the only one experiencing these issues?

A major issue I find with the editor is how when you delete a face, it leaves the lines and vertices behind. You have to double click to select everything then delete. But... this creates a problem because sometimes double clicking selects adjoining faces, so you're left with the option of manually deleting the one face and the 4 lines one by one.

If you do not understand what I am saying, try this in the editor it takes 15 seconds. Create a face, select just the face, and delete it. You will see the outline left behind. You have to double click and then delete to get it all in one go. But remember, once you start mapping double clicking will select many things and not just the specific face.

Please tell me I'm doing this wrong lol

EDIT: I'm pretty sure all my problems stem from my map organization OCD. I literally count grid lines when placing lights.

Comments

  • Kouji_SanKouji_San Sr. Hινε Uρкεερεг - EUPT Deputy The Netherlands Join Date: 2003-05-13 Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
    edited May 2011
    For the alignment problem, SparkE selects the center when you have multiple objects (faces in this case I assume)

    When you have multiple stuff slected, you need move the origin using the keys you have bound to

    Move Origin Cycle (previous)
    Move Origin Cycle (next)


    They're in the edit menu.


    The other thing is quite annoying indeed, I avoid welding stuff together so I can actually double click to remove faces and their related line/vertexes. Also I tend to remove vertexes instead of lines when I do this. This way you can be certain the vertex and line are removed. It does leave you with multiple lines overlapping eachother though (final it should all be welded? :D)
  • ThaldarinThaldarin Alonzi&#33; Join Date: 2003-07-15 Member: 18173Members, Constellation
    <!--quoteo(post=1847336:date=May 19 2011, 05:56 PM:name=zastels)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (zastels @ May 19 2011, 05:56 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1847336"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->A major issue I find with the editor is how when you delete a face, it leaves the lines and vertices behind. You have to double click to select everything then delete. But... this creates a problem because sometimes double clicking selects adjoining faces, so you're left with the option of manually deleting the one face and the 4 lines one by one.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    This only becomes a problem if you're welding faces together, using the line tools.

    If you want ultimate control over your faces, you must create each face individually or use the copy/paste method. Otherwise you will always encounter this.
  • zastelszastels Join Date: 2003-11-29 Member: 23731Members
    edited May 2011
    This confuses me, because I know things are welded together, but I don't even know what is causing it. I don't even know how to weld lol.

    Things I copy and past and put together eventually seem to weld themselves.

    So how to you weld sometime or unweld?

    And another thing I don't understand is why vertices just show up. I'm looking at a square with like 6 vertices, and a triangle with 4. Makes no sense right? Well it's just randomly putting vertices along the lines, and even when I copy the face, delete it and bring it back, the extra vertices are there.
  • ThaldarinThaldarin Alonzi&#33; Join Date: 2003-07-15 Member: 18173Members, Constellation
    For example zastels, you have a face that you have created and want to add another on. Instead of drawing your face (or line)directly off of the existing face, you need to create a new face which is attached to nothing. That way, you can keep total control over your work.

    I hope that explains better?
  • zastelszastels Join Date: 2003-11-29 Member: 23731Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1847349:date=May 19 2011, 02:23 PM:name=Thaldarin)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Thaldarin @ May 19 2011, 02:23 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1847349"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->For example zastels, you have a face that you have created and want to add another on. Instead of drawing your face (or line)directly off of the existing face, you need to create a new face which is attached to nothing. That way, you can keep total control over your work.

    I hope that explains better?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Yes I understand that perfectly, but I do swear on my grave this has been what I've been doing, and that the faces eventually mysteriously weld.
  • zastelszastels Join Date: 2003-11-29 Member: 23731Members
    On a totally unrelated note regarding the scale tool (I don't want to keep making threads for everything).

    I can not scale brushes from all the view points. This is usually in issue in the top view, where it will not let me scale any object, I instead have to pull at it from the side view, on the actual side of the brush.

    I think it's much easier to grasp the map layout from the top view, especially because there is less clutter. Unfortunately I can almost never scale a vertical object in the top view.

    Has anyone experienced this? If you do not understand tell me because I'll upload a screenshot.
  • pSyk0mAnpSyk0mAn Nerdish by Nature Germany Join Date: 2003-08-07 Member: 19166Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Community Developer
    edited May 2011
    <!--quoteo(post=1847347:date=May 19 2011, 08:17 PM:name=zastels)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (zastels @ May 19 2011, 08:17 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1847347"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->This confuses me, because I know things are welded together, but I don't even know what is causing it. I don't even know how to weld lol.

    Things I copy and past and put together eventually seem to weld themselves.

    So how to you weld sometime or unweld?

    And another thing I don't understand is why vertices just show up. I'm looking at a square with like 6 vertices, and a triangle with 4. Makes no sense right? Well it's just randomly putting vertices along the lines, and even when I copy the face, delete it and bring it back, the extra vertices are there.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Faces next to each other with overlapping vertices kinda switch these vertices and are tied back together using the same ones.
    The remaining ones, unused by both faces, remain at the same spot and you'll notice them, when you move your faces around.

    You might aswell build everything together, because this will happen over and over again and just creates a lot of unused vertices that annoy/confuse you later on.
  • zastelszastels Join Date: 2003-11-29 Member: 23731Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1847362:date=May 19 2011, 12:35 PM:name=pSyk0mAn)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (pSyk0mAn @ May 19 2011, 12:35 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1847362"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Faces next to each other with overlapping vertices kinda switch these vertices and are tied back together using the same ones.
    The remaining ones, unused by both faces, remain at the same spot and you'll notice them, when you move your faces around.

    You might aswell build everything together, because this will happen over and over again and just creates a lot of unused vertices that annoy/confuse you later on.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    So you recommend actually having everything welded? Is this what you do?

    Say you take a square, and you take one vertex and drag it over to the opposite side, you get a triangle. But, really what you have is a square with two overlapping vertex because the vertices are not being merged. Is this the correct way to do that anyways?
  • pSyk0mAnpSyk0mAn Nerdish by Nature Germany Join Date: 2003-08-07 Member: 19166Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Community Developer
    <!--quoteo(post=1847371:date=May 19 2011, 06:57 PM:name=zastels)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (zastels @ May 19 2011, 06:57 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1847371"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->So you recommend actually having everything welded? Is this what you do?

    Say you take a square, and you take one vertex and drag it over to the opposite side, you get a triangle. But, really what you have is a square with two overlapping vertex because the vertices are not being merged. Is this the correct way to do that anyways?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    I haven't welded anything, because this bug just appeared recently.
    There are also faces that don't share vertices or the vertices are slightly of the grid, but I build more tied together since this bug appeared.

    When you create that triangle you select the two vertices or dbl-click the face and weld vertices.
    You can also draw a line on the square to split it into two triangles and then delete the unneeded vertex.
  • zastelszastels Join Date: 2003-11-29 Member: 23731Members
    I justtt watched an old 2010 youtube vid where they listed some new features and vertex weld was one of them! I got to read some documentation so I don't look silly.
  • pSyk0mAnpSyk0mAn Nerdish by Nature Germany Join Date: 2003-08-07 Member: 19166Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Community Developer
    Afaik auto-weld was removed after complaints, but apparently not entirely, since spark still kinda auto-welds, but doesn't delete the remaining vertices.
  • zastelszastels Join Date: 2003-11-29 Member: 23731Members
    Well this is good to know, because I often try to convince myself I'm crazy before the tools I'm using.
  • Evil_bOb1Evil_bOb1 Join Date: 2002-07-13 Member: 938Members, Squad Five Blue
    Just go with it :D When you put geometry in a layer and turn it invisible, those extra vertexes and lines will stay visible so you can delete them then easy. But don't worry about these things just keep mapping. Errors will appear just deal with them when you see them.

    I guess to each his own. I think I have just as much control as anyone else by having everything welded. I just build faces from others using line tool. It makes more sense to me that way as you don't have overlapping lines each time you have neighboring faces. And I like the fact that it is one huge model. I've learned my own tricks to do what I want. An advantage of my way is I'm never in the situation to encounter the bug you are experiencing and I didn't know it happened.

    Just go your way, keep mapping and you'll find your own solutions to the problems you encounter. You'll develop comfort and ease with the tools with time and some personal little tricks.
  • zastelszastels Join Date: 2003-11-29 Member: 23731Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1847415:date=May 19 2011, 04:41 PM:name=Evil_bOb1)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Evil_bOb1 @ May 19 2011, 04:41 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1847415"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Just go with it :D When you put geometry in a layer and turn it invisible, those extra vertexes and lines will stay visible so you can delete them then easy. But don't worry about these things just keep mapping. Errors will appear just deal with them when you see them.

    I guess to each his own. I think I have just as much control as anyone else by having everything welded. I just build faces from others using line tool. It makes more sense to me that way as you don't have overlapping lines each time you have neighboring faces. And I like the fact that it is one huge model. I've learned my own tricks to do what I want. An advantage of my way is I'm never in the situation to encounter the bug you are experiencing and I didn't know it happened.

    Just go your way, keep mapping and you'll find your own solutions to the problems you encounter. You'll develop comfort and ease with the tools with time and some personal little tricks.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Thanks for that tip about layers. I'll have to give that a go.

    I find that you're very much correct, my mapping is slowly speeding up, and I'm finding little shortcuts in ways to do things.

    I could really use some tips on lighting though, I've not had much success trying to copy others.

    When you place a light and set the intensity to 1, that is supposed to be the ambient light from what I understand. However even if I max the range out it doesn't quite produce the effect I desire. Can anyone link a tut to some advanced lighting techniques?
Sign In or Register to comment.