Aliens in NS2 inferior compared to NS1
kabab
Join Date: 2003-12-15 Member: 24384Members, Constellation
Join Date: 2003-12-15 Member: 24384Members, Constellation
Been playing a lot lately :D and its occurred to me in NS2 aliens are far worse off vs marines compared to NS1..
For the most parts all the changes for marines have been positive.. Mac's fit in nicely with a full time com, melee attacks, better flash lights, self serve armoury, more freedom in placing turrets (no need for tf), flame throwers, alt weapon attacks etc etc..
Now when you look at aliens mostly they have lost things...
No leap jump (skulk)
Must build on infestation
Fades cannot crouch
Gorges and skulks are bigger makes it harder for them to hide in little nocks
No bunny hop
No in air manoeuvring
Fade blink whilst looks really awesome is functionally weaker then NS1 blink
Gorge have lost a lot of ability
Drifters are a pain
Impossible to boost gorges into vents etc
Commander role jars with the way aliens should be played..
DI whilst it looks cool and I actually like a lot is a nerf in a lot of ways as it really restricts what gorges can do and creates tedious management in some circumstances...
Overall i think the Alien side has lost of lot of what made them really special in NS1, sure some of it was exploits in the engine but dam they where fun :D
I'd like to see some attention bought to these area's :D
For the most parts all the changes for marines have been positive.. Mac's fit in nicely with a full time com, melee attacks, better flash lights, self serve armoury, more freedom in placing turrets (no need for tf), flame throwers, alt weapon attacks etc etc..
Now when you look at aliens mostly they have lost things...
No leap jump (skulk)
Must build on infestation
Fades cannot crouch
Gorges and skulks are bigger makes it harder for them to hide in little nocks
No bunny hop
No in air manoeuvring
Fade blink whilst looks really awesome is functionally weaker then NS1 blink
Gorge have lost a lot of ability
Drifters are a pain
Impossible to boost gorges into vents etc
Commander role jars with the way aliens should be played..
DI whilst it looks cool and I actually like a lot is a nerf in a lot of ways as it really restricts what gorges can do and creates tedious management in some circumstances...
Overall i think the Alien side has lost of lot of what made them really special in NS1, sure some of it was exploits in the engine but dam they where fun :D
I'd like to see some attention bought to these area's :D
Comments
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g8V5LsGqFgk#t=06m24s" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g8V5LsGqFgk#t=06m24s</a>
One thing which might speak against it is the fact that Kharaa buildings die when not on infestation...
Other then that, seems about right. Fade blink is cool though, NS1.04 had a better implementation, ignoring the stuck in wall issue due to engine limitations. This right click -> click once more is a simple fix for the stuck issue, but it slows the Fade down. I'd rather see the 1.04 implementation instead...
In NS1 you use a lot your mouse, combine it with the strafe keys and fire shorter or longer bursts of movement abilities. After you've got speed, you can kind of choose how long you try to preserve it until you put more effort into speed gaining.
In NS2 you fire a single movement ability, watch it go and then fire another. There isn't much control or possibilities to preserve speed or adjust the force you put into things. There isn't as much sense or rhytm of natural motion that you'd expect a predator to have. It feels a lot more like driving a vehicle with various gears and actions rather than being the lifeform itself.
Otherwise I don't really care about single features that much as long as it stays interesting as a whole somehow, but I really miss the lifeforms having their own rhytms and ability to variate them.
In NS1 you use a lot your mouse, combine it with the strafe keys and fire shorter or longer bursts of movement abilities. After you've got speed, you can kind of choose how long you try to preserve it until you put more effort into speed gaining.
In NS2 you fire a single movement ability, watch it go and then fire another. There isn't much control or possibilities to preserve speed or adjust the force you put into things. There isn't as much sense or rhytm of natural motion that you'd expect a predator to have. It feels a lot more like driving a vehicle with various gears and actions rather than being the lifeform itself.
Otherwise I don't really care about single features that much as long as it stays interesting as a whole somehow, but I really miss the lifeforms having their own rhytms and ability to variate them.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Emphasis +1
It isn't anything like that, as a matter of fact. It has already been stated that movement controls, specifically with the Lerk, are placeholders. They will be addressed in time.
Overall, movement is lacking. Switch to thirdperson and run around with a Skulk. It does (as someone stated) look and feel like you're driving a four-legged ice-skater.
...with teeth.
Skulk wall walking, while almost there, is still set for another pass to improve it. Bite hit range will probably be extended a little, since the incorrect way it was working before has been fixed, and now its just a matter of tweaking. We definitely want to give him more maneuverability and more skill based movement (most likely not bunnyhopping, but we are exploring all options).
Gorge still has more coming. We've discussed combining his health spray and DI into one ability, that can heal, lay down a lot of very temporary DI quickly, spray DI on door locks to break them, put out flames, etc. His bellysliding will get improved to be easier to control. And there's still more thought going into other ways to make him more useful. Ideally he would be the class that is the link between the commander and the players on the ground, assisting both equally.
Lerk. The flight model is far from complete, it is just a first pass. We are also still working out solutions for getting him more involved in close combat, flying in and laying down a barrage of short range but deadly spikes and flying out again, rather then sitting back and sniping all the time. There's also some ideas we have involving his spores. One of the thoughts is that we'd like them to trail out, like smoke from his tubes, rather then projectiles that he can lob a far distance. So, while sitting on the ground in one place won't do much, when he flies he can create a deadly smoke cloud behind him, so that he could temporarily block of exits, cut off one marine player from the rest of the squad, and encircle a group of marines with a spore cloud. Potentially the projectile versions could still be in as an upgrade.
Fade. His lack of crouch is simply that Charlie hasn't had time to implement it yet, but he's always been planned to be able to crouch and be able to blink into vents. His secondary attack is going to get changed in some way, and we've talked about adding a new movement ability which is a short range dash. Similar to the way blink worked in NS1. We've also discussed allowing him to cloak, when not moving. Anyway, we know he's not working the way we'd like him to, yet, and there will be a lot of thought going into ways to improve his movement, and find and tweak his abilities to give him a more defined role.
Onos. Obviously not in the game yet, but he will be getting some new abilities such as breaking down doors. And there are other improvements we want to make to his gore attack, over the NS1 attack. He'll also have disrupt abilities, like stomp to temporarily disable marine buildings, and a shield ability to block bullets to protect himself and aliens right next to him.
As far as other general stuff, we'll probably be adding in air maneuvering of some sort, improving drifters and other NPCs, as they are still pretty buggy (improved pathing is actually one of the things next up on the list to deal with). There are still 2 more alien structures that are waiting to get added into the game, which will come with a whole list of additional benefits and abilities for the aliens. We have yet to implement upgrades, which are still planned, which will give the aliens a whole other range of new abilities and improvements.
Some of the things that are here to stay, are alien commander and DI. While controversial we strongly feel those both add a lot of depth to the game and allow for better balance.
A lot of the stuff I've mentioned here is still subject to change. I just wanted to inform you that we know the problems that exist, and still have plans for a lot of additional features, which is why the aliens in the current work in progress version of NS2 are not really comparable to the finished versions of the aliens in NS1.
--Cory
You didn't have to come in here and give us such a detailed explanation.
But you did, and that is why we love the NS2 team, you guys are really trying to keep us BETA ######s happy and give us feedback and input.
Also, I think everyone understand the game is still over a year away from being completed and we are all very happy to see the kind of progress that is being made each build.
Now my 2 cents about the Fade.
Visually it looks awesome to blink, but the landing black cloud when you exit blink is disorientating. If there is one change I would like, leave the entering black could but get rid of the exit black cloud.
Hit F. Alien Vision removes this effect.
Current alien setup would make jetpack users really hard to fight against.
++ This
I think the NS1 blink and the new blink would compliment each other very well. Get rid of his movement inhibiting 2nd ability, and replace it with a dash or the NS1 blink and we've got an ultra fun to play, and tricky to play against fade.
One idea I had with the fade blink is when he lands he is invisible for a short period or till he attacks that would give players enough time to cope with the disorientation.
One other point I forgot was currently aliens have no easy way to get between hives likes they did in NS1 is that something that will be addresses?
I still don't like Alien commander :(
Yes, the Shift will have that ability. At least the old thought on it is that it will transport the alien to the nearest structure under attack (not just hives).
In NS1 it was possible to track marines using only sound. Made for some great vent based gameplay, where despite being out of eye-shot, you knew when to execute an attack. Also felt much more immersive than SOF effects/tracking.
Conversely when you were running up to attack a marine, you had to sneak up or ride the forward key to move slower than a normal walk and avoid making sound. The telltale click of skulk claws.
The sounds at the moment are case by case as good, but just don't add to the gameplay like they used to. Just something else that needs some love before release.
In NS1 it was possible to track marines using only sound. Made for some great vent based gameplay, where despite being out of eye-shot, you knew when to execute an attack. Also felt much more immersive than SOF effects/tracking.
Conversely when you were running up to attack a marine, you had to sneak up or ride the forward key to move slower than a normal walk and avoid making sound. The telltale click of skulk claws.
The sounds at the moment are case by case as good, but just don't add to the gameplay like they used to. Just something else that needs some love before release.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Oh man, I had completely forgotten about that. NS1 was superb for letting players of either team track their enemies via sound.
I actually find this to be more distressing as a marine, when infestation and drifters play their sounds as if they were sitting on my head, and I start freaking out thinking I'm about to get attacked.
Likewise, I find it MUCH harder to circle-strafe accurately when the sound is off. My ears help me keep tracking my targets even if they go outside my FoV.
Or you could make the dash work when holding down the right mouse button. It would use more energy the longer it was held down.
Why not Shift? It's the Movement Modifier button, and it sounds like it'd work pretty similarly to Sprint.
- have infestation/gorges take care of killing static structures so skulks can do other stuff
- bring back air control and bhopping from ns1
--Cory<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
heck yes, leaping in straight line is dumb
Because physics is for noobs! /sarcasm
gameplay > realism
<!--quoteo(post=1844527:date=May 6 2011, 12:15 PM:name=meb2)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (meb2 @ May 6 2011, 12:15 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1844527"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->- bring back air control and bhopping from ns1<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1844527:date=May 6 2011, 12:15 PM:name=meb2)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (meb2 @ May 6 2011, 12:15 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1844527"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->- bring back air control and bhopping from ns1<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
+3