Commander Fog of War
KuBaN
Join Date: 2002-11-16 Member: 8979Members, Constellation
Join Date: 2002-11-16 Member: 8979Members, Constellation
<div class="IPBDescription">and Line of Sight</div>Along with the line of sight provided by structures, units, ai, etc., it would be interesting if the Fog of War for the Marine Commander was removed entirely in Powered Rooms (and vice versa for Unpowered Rooms). Kharaa Commander's Fog of War could be removed by Infestation (along with structures, units, ai, etc.). Then all/most rooms would start off visible to the Marine Commander, encouraging Aliens to destroy nearby Power Nodes before expanding. If this proves too informative for the Marines, Infestation (available to KharaaComm and the Gorge) could disable Power Nodes without necessarily destroying them. Considering the upcoming "pustules" change that lets Marines destroy Infestation from the start, this shouldn't give the Aliens an unfair advantage.
I dunno, just throwing stuff out there. Whaddya think?
I dunno, just throwing stuff out there. Whaddya think?
Comments
Powernodes :)
<!--quoteo(post=1843106:date=Apr 29 2011, 01:07 PM:name=Harimau)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Harimau @ Apr 29 2011, 01:07 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1843106"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Power nodes causing DI to recede is a nice idea, though. Definitely has that territorial aspect. All rooms except marine start should start with the power nodes destroyed then, I think. It'd be like the initial 'black' fog of war in an RTS - both teams would be advancing into the unknown. The first step in an expansion is to take the power node, and this is fine because marines can now repair power nodes. If there's too much DI present in the room (or the DI is covering the power node), it'll need to be cleared away before the power node can be repaired. DI should also grow slower the further away from the 'source' (Hives) so aliens can't simply take the whole map at the start. Harvesters could perhaps act as 'repeaters' which will increase the DI growth rate (or rather, counteract the lower DI growth rate). The portable power packs will exist to provide temporary power in those rooms infested with DI, to push back the DI so that the power node can be repaired assuming the absence of flamethrower support; or else as a backup power source so it requires the aliens to take out two nodes to spread their influence in that room.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
In such a case, you would have power nodes providing sight in powered (and uninfested) rooms to marines, and infested (and unpowered) rooms providing sight to aliens; any unpowered AND uninfested rooms would be neutral territory, and require unit line of sight.
Could you explain what you mean with slower di the further away though? Is it like, the patches radius decreasing, or that they simply expand slower?
Also, I think that its up to the mappers what rooms start with pn and such, that way it could the that both the marine spawn and their natural expansion is online, or similar.
I can think of di covering nodes to prevent marines from repairingthem would cause issues tho. Marines have no way to clear out di at tech 1 yet, and its not very hard for aliens to then disable the pn everywhere but marine spawn, and then quickly cover it up.
Just had an ideatho, what if the macs had a mini-flamethrower or similar to clear out di (comm being able to use macs to slowly clear a room)?
You mean marine spawn and expansion being tied to the same node, or that both have no nodes, that way they can't be taken offline?
There are pretty strict guidelines to how Power Nodes should be set up, so it isn't exactly up to the mappers, regardless of your answer. However, I don't necessarily agree with the current guidelines (I don't think Power Nodes should be in the same defensible room as a Res Node and a Tech Point because it encourages turtling).
<!--quoteo(post=1843133:date=Apr 29 2011, 09:02 AM:name=Feha)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Feha @ Apr 29 2011, 09:02 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1843133"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I can think of di covering nodes to prevent marines from repairingthem would cause issues tho. Marines have no way to clear out di at tech 1 yet, and its not very hard for aliens to then disable the pn everywhere but marine spawn, and then quickly cover it up.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Not to be rude and accusative, but I think you may have glossed over my original post towards the end.
<!--quoteo(post=0:date=:name=KuBaN)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (KuBaN)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--coloro:#FF0000--><span style="color:#FF0000"><!--/coloro-->Considering the upcoming "pustules" change that lets Marines destroy Infestation from the start, this shouldn't give the Aliens an unfair advantage.<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1843133:date=Apr 29 2011, 09:02 AM:name=Feha)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Feha @ Apr 29 2011, 09:02 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1843133"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Just had an ideatho, what if the macs had a mini-flamethrower or similar to clear out di (comm being able to use macs to slowly clear a room)?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Could be tacked on to the MACs Welder, EMP Blast, or Mine abilities, if it proves something they want to implement.
I was actually only commenting harimarus post, not yours :P
Damn, derailed. lol
Well, with the given prototype implementation, I'd say that they 'mature' and 'expand' slower. But when they implement the 'mesh' approach, the 'border' should increase slower.
I'm also assuming, with the current prototype, that new DI needs to be connected to (or at least close to) existing DI - which I think they just(?) implemented.
<!--quoteo(post=1843133:date=Apr 29 2011, 09:02 PM:name=Feha)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Feha @ Apr 29 2011, 09:02 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1843133"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Also, I think that its up to the mappers what rooms start with pn and such, that way it could the that both the marine spawn and their natural expansion is online, or similar.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Possibly. But how would that balance for aliens? Unless the mapper can also specify the starting extent of DI, which I think is actually a good idea.
<!--quoteo(post=1843133:date=Apr 29 2011, 09:02 PM:name=Feha)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Feha @ Apr 29 2011, 09:02 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1843133"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I can think of di covering nodes to prevent marines from repairingthem would cause issues tho. Marines have no way to clear out di at tech 1 yet, and its not very hard for aliens to then disable the pn everywhere but marine spawn, and then quickly cover it up.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's partly why I also suggested the slower growth further away from a 'hub' (hive) or a 'repeater' (harvester). To make it impossible for aliens to cover the entire map in the first few minutes.
I will agree that marines need some way to deal with DI at tier 1 (and I loathe the pustule idea), but that's an issue with the current system anyway, not just my proposal. At least with my proposal, you could maintain certain important territories by keeping the power on and defending the nodes.
<!--quoteo(post=1843133:date=Apr 29 2011, 09:02 PM:name=Feha)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Feha @ Apr 29 2011, 09:02 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1843133"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Just had an ideatho, what if the macs had a mini-flamethrower or similar to clear out di (comm being able to use macs to slowly clear a room)?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't like the idea of MACs with flamethrowers, because that would cause other issues. A train of MACs could travel to the other side of the map, clear away all the DI, and repair the power nodes, which would further inhibit DI growth. Disconnected DI would die off. There goes the good bulk of your territory. Such offensive capability should only belong to the marines themselves.
Instead, power nodes would become something to defend for BOTH sides. As aliens, you don't want them clearing away the DI and restoring the power, so you place a few hydras and a whip, or something. As marines, you don't want them taking out your power nodes, disabling your buildings and spreading their DI, so you place some sentries.
I'm also assuming, with the current prototype, that new DI needs to be connected to (or at least close to) existing DI - which I think they just(?) implemented.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ok, but how about instead not using "speed" in the sense of growth rate for each circle, but instead in the sense of how fast di can expand because of nrg cost? The further away from a hive or "repeater", the more nrg it would cost.
<!--quoteo(post=1843322:date=Apr 30 2011, 07:01 AM:name=Harimau)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Harimau @ Apr 30 2011, 07:01 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1843322"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Possibly. But how would that balance for aliens? Unless the mapper can also specify the starting extent of DI, which I think is actually a good idea.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I already thought the mapper could do that, to me it seems like every hive has a unique di box.
<!--quoteo(post=1843322:date=Apr 30 2011, 07:01 AM:name=Harimau)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Harimau @ Apr 30 2011, 07:01 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1843322"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->That's partly why I also suggested the slower growth further away from a 'hub' (hive) or a 'repeater' (harvester). To make it impossible for aliens to cover the entire map in the first few minutes.
I will agree that marines need some way to deal with DI at tier 1 (and I loathe the pustule idea), but that's an issue with the current system anyway, not just my proposal. At least with my proposal, you could maintain certain important territories by keeping the power on and defending the nodes.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I <i>loathe</i> the postule idea as well, it feels to ugly, and would only remind me of chopping wood in minecraft, only because I want to get rid of leaves, when its so much simpler and beutifull to burn it all. Ugly, disgusting, acne wood, which I always will expect to explode in my face with a facehugger like in alien swarm. And I will have to do this constantly, almost every time i play ns2, as the forests will be filled with acne wood in each room...
About di disabling power nodes:
I know the problem exist without your idea, but I just think it would be way to powerfull anyway. All the alien team would have to do, is dedicate the di to spread towards marines, while aliens get a few gorges that go and block the pn powering the infantry portals. Unless the marines have a decent way of quickly getting rid of di, preferably without having to put themself in a way to vulnerable position... yeah you know what will happen.
<!--quoteo(post=1843322:date=Apr 30 2011, 07:01 AM:name=Harimau)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Harimau @ Apr 30 2011, 07:01 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1843322"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I don't like the idea of MACs with flamethrowers, because that would cause other issues. A train of MACs could travel to the other side of the map, clear away all the DI, and repair the power nodes, which would further inhibit DI growth. Disconnected DI would die off. There goes the good bulk of your territory. Such offensive capability should only belong to the marines themselves.
Instead, power nodes would become something to defend for BOTH sides. As aliens, you don't want them clearing away the DI and restoring the power, so you place a few hydras and a whip, or something. As marines, you don't want them taking out your power nodes, disabling your buildings and spreading their DI, so you place some sentries.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah, I did not really mean flamethrowers like what the rines have, but more like something to clear a pn, or kill a unguarded weak spot. But the macs would not be able to defend themself, and I was thinking that it should take time for them to kill di. A mac dedicated to keep a node clean, would quickly restore power, and keep it that way while cleaning, but never actually remove the di. So if the mac dies, the power is down again.