<!--quoteo(post=1830081:date=Feb 6 2011, 09:40 PM:name=Kouji_San)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kouji_San @ Feb 6 2011, 09:40 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1830081"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->C2D E6420 @ 2.4Ghz here with a HD4850 512Mb and a 2Gb of DDR @ 900Mhz<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I didn't quote you there as it's obvious our definition of 'smooth' varies greatly. That system will be assraped by this game.
<!--quoteo(post=1830073:date=Feb 6 2011, 07:34 PM:name=player)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (player @ Feb 6 2011, 07:34 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1830073"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'm more annoyed with the complete ABSENCE of commentary regarding certain facets of the game. B162 for example, had improved FPS (varying among the players, but still) and NS2HD rightly pointed this out. The rubber-banding cluster###### however, I haven't heard a peep of, nor the completely ###### hit-reg of skulk-bites. And just for a laugh, I'd like to see NS2 just outright CRASH in one of his videos.
Well, this post was more vicious than I wanted it to be, but I'm just getting really annoyed with the massive contrast between my game-experience and what's being perpetrated.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> To start with you mention the "contrast between MY game-experience". Exactly. Not everyone has YOUR game experience. Some people can run the game better then you can. Just because Hugh can run the game better then you can, does not mean its some huge lie being perpetrated.
Hugh wants NS2 to succeed just as much as we do. He is doing his best to help that, and if he starts focusing on bugs and crashes and bad framerate, etc. then that is not going to help anyone. Not to mention, its not terribly exciting or enjoyable to watch a video with the person crashing or having issues.
We know we are going to get the game substantially more playable, and are working hard towards that goal, so putting up a bunch of videos showing off bugs and performance issues just leads people to believe the game is not worth investing in and that it will never be improved.
<!--quoteo(post=1830086:date=Feb 6 2011, 10:30 PM:name=Squeal_Like_A_Pig)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Squeal_Like_A_Pig @ Feb 6 2011, 10:30 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1830086"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->To start with you mention the "contrast between MY game-experience". Exactly. Not everyone has YOUR game experience. Some people can run the game better then you can. Just because Hugh can run the game better then you can, does not mean its some huge lie being perpetrated.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Here's the thing, I probably have among the best of game-experiences, because I CAN run the game better than roughly 95% of people. We're talking about an i7 920@4GHz, 6 GB DDR3 clocked at 1600MHz and a GTX480 clocked to run faster than a GTX580. Yet still NS2HD (using a system that is less than what I have just described) manages to produce smoothness I (and almost all other players for that matter) cannot approximate. This has nothing to do with our machines being incompetent, and perpetuating that assumption is what's generated so much animosity as of late.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Hugh wants NS2 to succeed just as much as we do. He is doing his best to help that, and if he starts focusing on bugs and crashes and bad framerate, etc. then that is not going to help anyone. Not to mention, its not terribly exciting or enjoyable to watch a video with the person crashing or having issues.
We know we are going to get the game substantially more playable, and are working hard towards that goal, so putting up a bunch of videos showing off bugs and performance issues just leads people to believe the game is not worth investing in and that it will never be improved.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> The crash-suggestion was a bit of a sarcastic remark, but with a serious point to make. I do think it is beneficial if players (or potential buyers) aren't treated like cattle there to be sweet-talked to constantly. It won't be a complete publicity-disaster if the current flaws of the Spark-engine are exposed, if explained in a competent and respectful fashion. People (even on the internet) can be surprisingly understanding if you're not treating them like most other game-companies do (with the constant barrage of PR-nonsense).
I would suggest NS2HD to just go nuts with some <b><u><!--sizeo:6--><span style="font-size:24pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->TECHNICAL<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec--></u></b> information this time around, and don't shy away from sensitive material. I just hope I'm not talking to a brick wall...
Really this is a rare occurrence in game development history. Not very often do you see a game released to the public so early in its playable production. Understanding this should help you deal with the problems your having with the game.
It's obvious these guys are busting their asses improving this game piece by piece. You can see this with the constant updates. They truly do care, so quit busting their balls. Great progress has been made and I'm sure there are many more strides coming in the future.
I've been following these guys since near the beginning and haven't seen them go much over a month without news for almost 10 solid years. I only see them expanding and getting more efficient. If you cant handle the game in the state that its in like me then go do something else. However I've noticed its becoming more stable with each build.
McGlaspiewww.team156.comJoin Date: 2010-07-26Member: 73044Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, Squad Five Gold, Reinforced - Onos, WC 2013 - Gold, Subnautica Playtester
edited February 2011
@player: Damn dude, who took a diarrhea crap in your cereal this morning? Sounds like you need a vacation from DLL hell.
Imo, 80% of all the "performance" problems people are complaining about is due to server tick rates typically staying very low (5-9) and fluctuating like crazy (even on a local server). I have very similar hardware to NS2HD, and I get the same performance he is getting. The only time I have problems is when I'm playing on a server with a low/fluctuating tick-rate.
<!--quoteo(post=1830073:date=Feb 6 2011, 08:34 PM:name=player)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (player @ Feb 6 2011, 08:34 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1830073"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'm more annoyed with the complete ABSENCE of commentary regarding certain facets of the game. B162 for example, had improved FPS (varying among the players, but still) and NS2HD rightly pointed this out. The rubber-banding cluster###### however, I haven't heard a peep of, nor the completely ###### hit-reg of skulk-bites. And just for a laugh, I'd like to see NS2 just outright CRASH in one of his videos.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
his videos lack criticism that's why. Its one of mine biggest problems with his videos, he only shows you the best part of the game but when you or me play it - we notice everything else he never recorded. So yeah, that's the biggest problem you are having, and trust me its partly why I skip some of his videos but I do enjoy watching them some times. He's being doing good in advertising the game.
The video you describing had many problems with it, one of them is the lack of players on the server, and secondly it wasn't live game. (meaning not much was going on to begin with) that is why his fps weren't spiking like ours. Plus once marines, and aliens start building more unites on the map (especially hydras/turrets), fps sometimes drop like rock in the water. His videos usually lack many problems of the game, so end up only seeing one side of the game - usually anything new, and amazing but never the list of problems normal players usually experience.
But i'm looking forward to his new videos now more since he will be recording the developers, this is something I can't wait to watch!
It is of course not so that there's some hidden command-line switch NS2HD uses to smooth out his game-performance, so what you are seeing is more or less what was recorded (with a deceptive smoothness youtube does tend to cause). It's as luns said, a matter of cherry-picking that does not reflect what players actually experience.
Don't think I'm trash-talking this game though. If I genuinely thought it would never flourish, I wouldn't be creating content for it, as I still am creating neat new things that'll take work out of max's hands.
The 'improved performance' is on a small level that's not designed to be used for the final game and isn't as open or detailed as Tram. Tram wireframe is much busier than rockdown; that gives off a very false perception.
The problem is as player is saying, is transparency and explanation. You're expecting people to see that small word "beta" or "alpha" and know what it is.
You say (NS team; directed to Cory here however) you want time to work on the game, you say you want to be heavily involved in the community. Both take extraordinary amounts of time; one currently has to be neglected for the other.
There is a must need for someone to actually liase with the community and liase with the team. The relationship needs to be much deeper between both. I think strengthening that bond and actually, really working at it will reduce overall negativity and give awareness to both team and consumers/players which will turn it all around to a positive.
<!--quoteo(post=1830088:date=Feb 6 2011, 05:00 PM:name=player)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (player @ Feb 6 2011, 05:00 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1830088"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Here's the thing, I probably have among the best of game-experiences, because I CAN run the game better than roughly 95% of people. We're talking about an i7 920@4GHz, 6 GB DDR3 clocked at 1600MHz and a GTX480 clocked to run faster than a GTX580. Yet still NS2HD (using a system that is less than what I have just described) manages to produce smoothness I (and almost all other players for that matter) cannot approximate. This has nothing to do with our machines being incompetent, and perpetuating that assumption is what's generated so much animosity as of late.
The crash-suggestion was a bit of a sarcastic remark, but with a serious point to make. I do think it is beneficial if players (or potential buyers) aren't treated like cattle there to be sweet-talked to constantly. It won't be a complete publicity-disaster if the current flaws of the Spark-engine are exposed, if explained in a competent and respectful fashion. People (even on the internet) can be surprisingly understanding if you're not treating them like most other game-companies do (with the constant barrage of PR-nonsense).
I would suggest NS2HD to just go nuts with some <b><u><!--sizeo:6--><span style="font-size:24pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->TECHNICAL<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec--></u></b> information this time around, and don't shy away from sensitive material. I just hope I'm not talking to a brick wall...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
all of those juicy stats mean nothing if your motherboard bus speed is slow. maybe hugh has a better mobo.
<!--quoteo(post=1830090:date=Feb 6 2011, 05:13 PM:name=Mac1OMan)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mac1OMan @ Feb 6 2011, 05:13 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1830090"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Really this is a rare occurrence in game development history. Not very often do you see a game released to the public so early in its playable production. Understanding this should help you deal with the problems your having with the game.
It's obvious these guys are busting their asses improving this game piece by piece. You can see this with the constant updates. They truly do care, so quit busting their balls. Great progress has been made and I'm sure there are many more strides coming in the future.
I've been following these guys since near the beginning and haven't seen them go much over a month without news for almost 10 solid years. I only see them expanding and getting more efficient. If you cant handle the game in the state that its in like me then go do something else. However I've noticed its becoming more stable with each build.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1830007:date=Feb 6 2011, 07:09 AM:name=TempesT487)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TempesT487 @ Feb 6 2011, 07:09 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1830007"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->They didn't pay for his trip to America, so the first thing you said makes no sense.
What career in filmography? It's a handheld camera mate it's not difficult.
NS2HD isn't a critic and never was. So I don't understand your problem. He just does game commentaries and reports on the progress of the game. There is already a forum and a feedback system for providing criticism, stop making it sound like NS2HD has become some puppet in UW's masterful plan to supress all criticism and establish world domination.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1830079:date=Feb 6 2011, 03:21 PM:name=Kouji_San)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kouji_San @ Feb 6 2011, 03:21 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1830079"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Perhaps the only PR problem which might occur is a negative one.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Kouji_SanSr. Hινε UÏкεεÏεг - EUPT DeputyThe NetherlandsJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
<!--quoteo(post=1830083:date=Feb 6 2011, 08:47 PM:name=player)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (player @ Feb 6 2011, 08:47 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1830083"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I didn't quote you there as it's obvious our definition of 'smooth' varies greatly. That system will be assraped by this game.
Pretty smooth? Get outta here.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Nah when running on medium at 720p it is playable to some extend, not smooth (100%) and I never said that. I said "pretty smooth" which indicates that it could be better. I still have FPS stutter and I can now notice it much better, probably due to a somewhat higher FPS compared to build 160.
A graph portraying frametimes and related FPS on a 12 player server on Rockdown. A bit better then 160 way back when I was able to record. But guess what, I CAN RECORD AGAIN (no idea why Fraps sudden started to work again though, but as long as it does! :D)
PlasmaJoin Date: 2003-04-26Member: 15855Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
The FPS from the alpha have definitely gone up; the thing that I notice now is not lower FPS, but instead hitching - where the game renders no or like 3 frames for half a second or so.
Definitely notice this actually when fighting skulks, I always seem to lag and hitch when im in the middle of trying to kill one of them.
<!--quoteo(post=1830138:date=Feb 6 2011, 07:36 PM:name=saltybp53)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (saltybp53 @ Feb 6 2011, 07:36 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1830138"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->So how about this weather? Good luck on the trip Hugh! Buy a gorge plushie for me!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It's finally getting warm in Cali!!!! There's like a sun out and everything!
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->My frames per second is high, but every server I join lags like hell! What can I do? The game is unplayable.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Daily/Weekly you get threads like these. The relationship with the consumer and community needs strengthened.
I know it's all well saying this but here are some very basic things that can be done, just to initially stop the main daily/weekly threads and complaints from new customers and players:
1: A big bright logo on the NS2 UW page and naturalselection2.com which says "GAME IN BETA - Online experience may vary". Linked to a page which explains the following;
a) What a beta is b) UW's brief plan for it's beta stage c) A short exiting note about performance. d) After all PR is part of it, NS2HD video or 2.
2: A 'press statement'.
Someone on the UW team <i>needs</i> to view the several Q&A threads and take out the main issues and questions and respond to them in full and on a fully public stage. None of this taking the easy questions like "What are you going to do with squads" and a quick "maybe armour upgrade, I don't know"; which is a 30 second off the top of your head answer for not knowing. A real and full answer about issues which matter, performance, release schedule, gameplay plans, overview of unit and structure plans etc.
Something which shows the public that UW do have a full business model in place which isn't just living off of preorder money and being ran like an amateur modification, which you can take as negatively as you like, but right now the current face of UW is not professional. Something like a full, to the point press statement will gain the understanding of the community, gain professionalism and will strengthen your bond with your consumer. We do know the team are human, but you realise you've promised a product and well, after Fall 2009, I won't go there, but your consumer are only human too.
3: From what I understand there's a public released beta and an internal beta. One being a very stripped down and the other having lots of incomplete parts. Doing this is time consuming and from a consumers point of view, the mass load of secrecy behind releasing such a stripped down version will impact overall beta experience more negatively than positively; as you're getting feedback on essentially an old version of the game. Sure it's useful for small stuff but right now, things that are major like the performance issues will straggle along slowly.
I guess what I'm saying is, if you say you're going to be fully transparent (haha) and get the community involved every step of the way. Do it. Don't hold back, don't tier your development.
Of course if your immediete response is "the difference between both versions are negligent"; just ignore this point.
This post isn't to provoke any reaction to anyone in the community or the team, just from a public point of view, there's very little in the way of really offering a good service to your community in the massive delay of your game, '18 months late' is a very serious overshot for any development of any game, system or product. It seems as though UW, you aren't taking that seriously enough and there is a lot of basic customer service and business interaction missing between yourselves and your consumer.
I somewhat agree with Thaldarin, all the talk probably needs to be quelled with a big fat press release, answering the key issues (particularly the framerate, server and hit registration issues) and the current <b>plan</b> for the game (I'm sure you have some sort of plan, a list of features, a sense of how the game should flow, potential strategies, what should counter what, etc). IN PARTICULAR, a lot of people might have beast machines and epic internet but still can't play a playable match, but those people don't realise (as I understand it) that that problem lies with the servers and not their machines or connections; this needs to be cleared up.
On the other hand, that could show weakness and desperation, as if they're caving under the pressure; and I guess it does not reflect well on the final expected product as a whole.
PlasmaJoin Date: 2003-04-26Member: 15855Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
edited February 2011
The gist I get from these threads is that people expect performance to be better with each patch, and that doesn't always happen so people get disappointed.
What's noticeable to me though is common problems (sound dupe bug, hitching) is still there with each patch.
It's playable for me, but I can see others disappointed because they load up the game after a patch and see the same problems again and its still unplayable for them so they just get annoyed and wait for the next patch.
So while the game is playable for me personally (expect for the hitching which is annoying), I think others who have not been able to play at all or enjoy the game due to those hitches + worse perf are expecting more attention to perf issues than is (visibly?) being shown.
From my point of view as a player I have heard 'perf issues' being an acknowledged problem from the dev team, but there's been no real (noticable?) progress in the last few patches.
I think everyone just wants one patch to come out that makes it smooth (ie totally fix vs. bandaid fix) for everyone. Then the focus moves from 'perf sucks' to 'ah cool more gameplay changes'.
Unfortunately those players who fire up the game and have horrible performance even with the latest patch have that image stuck in their mind. If people say the game is working better now but they check it out and its still laggy, they are just going to think 'well I was right its still laggy' and not play the game for a while.
If doable, perhaps the technical dev team should drop all tasks and concentrate on solving the lag as the utmost priority (to the detriment of other needed features for a while)?
The technical team is Max and Brian, and I believe Max IS working ONLY on performance issues, according to Cory's most recent posts, as well as Max's own posts.
Hi everyone! Sorry I haven't replied more in this thread, I've been running around San Francisco (Cory was kind and patient enough to show me around today!). I think I should answer some things that have come up.
1. Super Bowl: I was a bit confused by the play at first but I learnt fast, and yes I did see some of the game!
2. My videos never showing bugs: Well, I suppose I better clarify my 'bug policy.' I show you what I play. Every time I play I record. I upload every full game I play, in its entirety. Enough said! (I have less time to play NS2 than I would like)
3. Someone in another forum said UWE was paying me to come to SF. I want to clarify (on this forum at least) that UWE has not paid for any of my trip, and I would not want them to. It is completely voluntary. They did however take me out for a nice Mexican dinner :)
4. TSA killing aliens: Yes I got asked lots and lots and lots of questions but they let me through... Phew!
<!--quoteo(post=1830173:date=Feb 7 2011, 02:34 AM:name=NS2HD)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (NS2HD @ Feb 7 2011, 02:34 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1830173"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->They did however take me out for a nice Mexican dinner :)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So many tears in this thread. Please try to be slightly more positive instead of putting a negative spin on every single article. Then maybe these forums will be worth reading!
I somehow doubt there is a major NS2HD conspiracy, Contrary to popular belief he doesn't make videos just to spite you either.
<!--quoteo(post=1830241:date=Feb 7 2011, 08:55 AM:name=Supernorn)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Supernorn @ Feb 7 2011, 08:55 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1830241"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->So many tears in this thread. Please try to be slightly more positive instead of putting a negative spin on every single article. Then maybe these forums will be worth reading!
I somehow doubt there is a major NS2HD conspiracy, Contrary to popular belief he doesn't make videos just to spite you either.
But.. but.. NS2HD gets more fps than I do!!?
grow up.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Truth. It seems everytime something happens about NS2, theres more whining than positive influence. Let's just watch a great game grow!
@NS2HD: please take your time, working trough the material you are shooting there. i like to wait a week more and get a better video rather than getting instant videos in the quality of a twitter post :P
<!--quoteo(post=1830241:date=Feb 7 2011, 04:55 PM:name=Supernorn)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Supernorn @ Feb 7 2011, 04:55 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1830241"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->So many tears in this thread. Please try to be slightly more positive instead of putting a negative spin on every single article.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The sentiment is amicable, however, how do you put a positive on being 14ish months past your release date with no near future planned release date to offer? People have paid good money for a game well overdue. I can definitely empathise with those that are bitterly disappointed and even angry when they pre-ordered before then, I can more than understand it as the level of service for the customer is very lacking.
Customers need clarity, transparency and to know they aren't being ignored. That's how you turn an unhappy customer in to a happy customer, that's how you take a negative spin and make it positive.
Comments
I didn't quote you there as it's obvious our definition of 'smooth' varies greatly. That system will be assraped by this game.
Pretty smooth? Get outta here.
Well, this post was more vicious than I wanted it to be, but I'm just getting really annoyed with the massive contrast between my game-experience and what's being perpetrated.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
To start with you mention the "contrast between MY game-experience". Exactly. Not everyone has YOUR game experience. Some people can run the game better then you can. Just because Hugh can run the game better then you can, does not mean its some huge lie being perpetrated.
Hugh wants NS2 to succeed just as much as we do. He is doing his best to help that, and if he starts focusing on bugs and crashes and bad framerate, etc. then that is not going to help anyone. Not to mention, its not terribly exciting or enjoyable to watch a video with the person crashing or having issues.
We know we are going to get the game substantially more playable, and are working hard towards that goal, so putting up a bunch of videos showing off bugs and performance issues just leads people to believe the game is not worth investing in and that it will never be improved.
--Cory
Here's the thing, I probably have among the best of game-experiences, because I CAN run the game better than roughly 95% of people. We're talking about an i7 920@4GHz, 6 GB DDR3 clocked at 1600MHz and a GTX480 clocked to run faster than a GTX580. Yet still NS2HD (using a system that is less than what I have just described) manages to produce smoothness I (and almost all other players for that matter) cannot approximate. This has nothing to do with our machines being incompetent, and perpetuating that assumption is what's generated so much animosity as of late.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Hugh wants NS2 to succeed just as much as we do. He is doing his best to help that, and if he starts focusing on bugs and crashes and bad framerate, etc. then that is not going to help anyone. Not to mention, its not terribly exciting or enjoyable to watch a video with the person crashing or having issues.
We know we are going to get the game substantially more playable, and are working hard towards that goal, so putting up a bunch of videos showing off bugs and performance issues just leads people to believe the game is not worth investing in and that it will never be improved.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The crash-suggestion was a bit of a sarcastic remark, but with a serious point to make. I do think it is beneficial if players (or potential buyers) aren't treated like cattle there to be sweet-talked to constantly. It won't be a complete publicity-disaster if the current flaws of the Spark-engine are exposed, if explained in a competent and respectful fashion. People (even on the internet) can be surprisingly understanding if you're not treating them like most other game-companies do (with the constant barrage of PR-nonsense).
I would suggest NS2HD to just go nuts with some <b><u><!--sizeo:6--><span style="font-size:24pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->TECHNICAL<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec--></u></b> information this time around, and don't shy away from sensitive material. I just hope I'm not talking to a brick wall...
It's obvious these guys are busting their asses improving this game piece by piece. You can see this with the constant updates. They truly do care, so quit busting their balls. Great progress has been made and I'm sure there are many more strides coming in the future.
I've been following these guys since near the beginning and haven't seen them go much over a month without news for almost 10 solid years. I only see them expanding and getting more efficient. If you cant handle the game in the state that its in like me then go do something else. However I've noticed its becoming more stable with each build.
Imo, 80% of all the "performance" problems people are complaining about is due to server tick rates typically staying very low (5-9) and fluctuating like crazy (even on a local server). I have very similar hardware to NS2HD, and I get the same performance he is getting. The only time I have problems is when I'm playing on a server with a low/fluctuating tick-rate.
i7 950 3.06Ghz
6GB RAM
AMD 5870 - 1GB VRAM
his videos lack criticism that's why. Its one of mine biggest problems with his videos, he only shows you the best part of the game but when you or me play it - we notice everything else he never recorded. So yeah, that's the biggest problem you are having, and trust me its partly why I skip some of his videos but I do enjoy watching them some times. He's being doing good in advertising the game.
The video you describing had many problems with it, one of them is the lack of players on the server, and secondly it wasn't live game. (meaning not much was going on to begin with) that is why his fps weren't spiking like ours. Plus once marines, and aliens start building more unites on the map (especially hydras/turrets), fps sometimes drop like rock in the water. His videos usually lack many problems of the game, so end up only seeing one side of the game - usually anything new, and amazing but never the list of problems normal players usually experience.
But i'm looking forward to his new videos now more since he will be recording the developers, this is something I can't wait to watch!
Don't think I'm trash-talking this game though. If I genuinely thought it would never flourish, I wouldn't be creating content for it, as I still am creating neat new things that'll take work out of max's hands.
The problem is as player is saying, is transparency and explanation. You're expecting people to see that small word "beta" or "alpha" and know what it is.
You say (NS team; directed to Cory here however) you want time to work on the game, you say you want to be heavily involved in the community. Both take extraordinary amounts of time; one currently has to be neglected for the other.
There is a must need for someone to actually liase with the community and liase with the team. The relationship needs to be much deeper between both. I think strengthening that bond and actually, really working at it will reduce overall negativity and give awareness to both team and consumers/players which will turn it all around to a positive.
The crash-suggestion was a bit of a sarcastic remark, but with a serious point to make. I do think it is beneficial if players (or potential buyers) aren't treated like cattle there to be sweet-talked to constantly. It won't be a complete publicity-disaster if the current flaws of the Spark-engine are exposed, if explained in a competent and respectful fashion. People (even on the internet) can be surprisingly understanding if you're not treating them like most other game-companies do (with the constant barrage of PR-nonsense).
I would suggest NS2HD to just go nuts with some <b><u><!--sizeo:6--><span style="font-size:24pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->TECHNICAL<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec--></u></b> information this time around, and don't shy away from sensitive material. I just hope I'm not talking to a brick wall...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
all of those juicy stats mean nothing if your motherboard bus speed is slow. maybe hugh has a better mobo.
It's obvious these guys are busting their asses improving this game piece by piece. You can see this with the constant updates. They truly do care, so quit busting their balls. Great progress has been made and I'm sure there are many more strides coming in the future.
I've been following these guys since near the beginning and haven't seen them go much over a month without news for almost 10 solid years. I only see them expanding and getting more efficient. If you cant handle the game in the state that its in like me then go do something else. However I've noticed its becoming more stable with each build.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
i wanna join bad, too soon to apply?
What career in filmography? It's a handheld camera mate it's not difficult.
NS2HD isn't a critic and never was. So I don't understand your problem. He just does game commentaries and reports on the progress of the game. There is already a forum and a feedback system for providing criticism, stop making it sound like NS2HD has become some puppet in UW's masterful plan to supress all criticism and establish world domination.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
cinematography*
sorry, that was bothering me.
no such thing as bad publicity.
Pretty smooth? Get outta here.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Nah when running on medium at 720p it is playable to some extend, not smooth (100%) and I never said that. I said "pretty smooth" which indicates that it could be better. I still have FPS stutter and I can now notice it much better, probably due to a somewhat higher FPS compared to build 160.
A graph portraying frametimes and related FPS on a 12 player server on Rockdown. A bit better then 160 way back when I was able to record. But guess what, I CAN RECORD AGAIN (no idea why Fraps sudden started to work again though, but as long as it does! :D)
<img src="http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5297/5423146061_a4ee5b8680_o.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
Definitely notice this actually when fighting skulks, I always seem to lag and hitch when im in the middle of trying to kill one of them.
It's finally getting warm in Cali!!!! There's like a sun out and everything!
<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=112661" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index....howtopic=112661</a>
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->My frames per second is high, but every server I join lags like hell! What can I do? The game is unplayable.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Daily/Weekly you get threads like these. The relationship with the consumer and community needs strengthened.
I know it's all well saying this but here are some very basic things that can be done, just to initially stop the main daily/weekly threads and complaints from new customers and players:
1: A big bright logo on the NS2 UW page and naturalselection2.com which says "GAME IN BETA - Online experience may vary". Linked to a page which explains the following;
a) What a beta is
b) UW's brief plan for it's beta stage
c) A short exiting note about performance.
d) After all PR is part of it, NS2HD video or 2.
2: A 'press statement'.
Someone on the UW team <i>needs</i> to view the several Q&A threads and take out the main issues and questions and respond to them in full and on a fully public stage. None of this taking the easy questions like "What are you going to do with squads" and a quick "maybe armour upgrade, I don't know"; which is a 30 second off the top of your head answer for not knowing. A real and full answer about issues which matter, performance, release schedule, gameplay plans, overview of unit and structure plans etc.
Something which shows the public that UW do have a full business model in place which isn't just living off of preorder money and being ran like an amateur modification, which you can take as negatively as you like, but right now the current face of UW is not professional. Something like a full, to the point press statement will gain the understanding of the community, gain professionalism and will strengthen your bond with your consumer. We do know the team are human, but you realise you've promised a product and well, after Fall 2009, I won't go there, but your consumer are only human too.
3: From what I understand there's a public released beta and an internal beta. One being a very stripped down and the other having lots of incomplete parts. Doing this is time consuming and from a consumers point of view, the mass load of secrecy behind releasing such a stripped down version will impact overall beta experience more negatively than positively; as you're getting feedback on essentially an old version of the game. Sure it's useful for small stuff but right now, things that are major like the performance issues will straggle along slowly.
I guess what I'm saying is, if you say you're going to be fully transparent (haha) and get the community involved every step of the way. Do it. Don't hold back, don't tier your development.
Of course if your immediete response is "the difference between both versions are negligent"; just ignore this point.
This post isn't to provoke any reaction to anyone in the community or the team, just from a public point of view, there's very little in the way of really offering a good service to your community in the massive delay of your game, '18 months late' is a very serious overshot for any development of any game, system or product. It seems as though UW, you aren't taking that seriously enough and there is a lot of basic customer service and business interaction missing between yourselves and your consumer.
On the other hand, that could show weakness and desperation, as if they're caving under the pressure; and I guess it does not reflect well on the final expected product as a whole.
What's noticeable to me though is common problems (sound dupe bug, hitching) is still there with each patch.
It's playable for me, but I can see others disappointed because they load up the game after a patch and see the same problems again and its still unplayable for them so they just get annoyed and wait for the next patch.
So while the game is playable for me personally (expect for the hitching which is annoying), I think others who have not been able to play at all or enjoy the game due to those hitches + worse perf are expecting more attention to perf issues than is (visibly?) being shown.
From my point of view as a player I have heard 'perf issues' being an acknowledged problem from the dev team, but there's been no real (noticable?) progress in the last few patches.
I think everyone just wants one patch to come out that makes it smooth (ie totally fix vs. bandaid fix) for everyone. Then the focus moves from 'perf sucks' to 'ah cool more gameplay changes'.
Unfortunately those players who fire up the game and have horrible performance even with the latest patch have that image stuck in their mind. If people say the game is working better now but they check it out and its still laggy, they are just going to think 'well I was right its still laggy' and not play the game for a while.
If doable, perhaps the technical dev team should drop all tasks and concentrate on solving the lag as the utmost priority (to the detriment of other needed features for a while)?
Maybe..
1. Super Bowl: I was a bit confused by the play at first but I learnt fast, and yes I did see some of the game!
2. My videos never showing bugs: Well, I suppose I better clarify my 'bug policy.' I show you what I play. Every time I play I record. I upload every full game I play, in its entirety. Enough said! (I have less time to play NS2 than I would like)
3. Someone in another forum said UWE was paying me to come to SF. I want to clarify (on this forum at least) that UWE has not paid for any of my trip, and I would not want them to. It is completely voluntary. They did however take me out for a nice Mexican dinner :)
4. TSA killing aliens: Yes I got asked lots and lots and lots of questions but they let me through... Phew!
Looking forward to seeing what video's you come up with. Would love a tour around the office and to see what people are working on for sure.
Sounds like a lot of fun to me!
Del Taco?
I somehow doubt there is a major NS2HD conspiracy, Contrary to popular belief he doesn't make videos just to spite you either.
But.. but.. NS2HD gets more fps than I do!!?
grow up.
I somehow doubt there is a major NS2HD conspiracy, Contrary to popular belief he doesn't make videos just to spite you either.
But.. but.. NS2HD gets more fps than I do!!?
grow up.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Truth. It seems everytime something happens about NS2, theres more whining than positive influence. Let's just watch a great game grow!
i like to wait a week more and get a better video rather than getting instant videos in the quality of a twitter post :P
<3!
The sentiment is amicable, however, how do you put a positive on being 14ish months past your release date with no near future planned release date to offer? People have paid good money for a game well overdue. I can definitely empathise with those that are bitterly disappointed and even angry when they pre-ordered before then, I can more than understand it as the level of service for the customer is very lacking.
Customers need clarity, transparency and to know they aren't being ignored. That's how you turn an unhappy customer in to a happy customer, that's how you take a negative spin and make it positive.