unnecessary Fade attack
Price
Join Date: 2003-09-27 Member: 21247Members
Join Date: 2003-09-27 Member: 21247Members
<div class="IPBDescription">there some things which are not very...good</div>Its a beta of course but some things are a bit unnecessary and thats not only my mind, i talk on a server to people and they say the same.
The Fades "2. Attack" its very slow and i never heard that anybody use it, its pointless, why attacking that slow when you can attack very fast with first "weapon" as fade?
I guess replace it with Metabolize would be a lot better.
and whips are...kinda pointless most times.
The Fades "2. Attack" its very slow and i never heard that anybody use it, its pointless, why attacking that slow when you can attack very fast with first "weapon" as fade?
I guess replace it with Metabolize would be a lot better.
and whips are...kinda pointless most times.
Comments
or you can abuse their attack delay (jumping in and out from a corner, in close "combat")
they are most effective around corners in small hallways or entrances to rooms. but if you abuse the delay, hence the protection of "line of sight", the seem useless.
I don't find them useless at all..but they still need some fixes. (most important one is the delay of the first strike, 2ndly upgrade bug (mature whip), and that you cannot build them floating in the air =) )
BTT: I don't use the secondary attack either. it's way to slow...maybe usefull against unprepared marines who stand still...but meele attack 1 works agaisnt those just as good.
Anyway i want talk about the fade useless attack, if you attack buildings its better use attack 1 instead of 2, i don't count it but it looks like attack 2 is slower and did less damage in the time you attack with 1.
I think the Stab attack should have some of its restrictions removed. It currently has these weaknesses
1. Stops the Fade's movement (even makes the Fade fall straight down when performed in midair, which I find very bizarre).
2. Has a whopping 1.5 sec delay.
3. Has a low rate of fire (thus is not very effective against structures).
While the Stab deals twice the damage of Swipe, and has twice the range, it cannot fulfill its purpose well. Marines can easily dodge the attack unless the Fade was already in contact with the marine. Even then, two quick Swipes are much easier to execute, and does not carry as much risk as charging up a Stab.
I've already developed the instinct to sprint away as a marine whenever a Fade disappears from my view, and it has saved me many times. On the other hand, it can be frustrating as a Fade to have be simply outran by marines, when Blink is so difficult to aim.
The right way to improve Stab is to allow a greater degree of movement when it is used, while keeping the range bonus.
While i did this, the marine always simply walk away... so i try the fast thing.
If you combine mature crags with mature whips in small corridors or near doors they become a pretty hard combo to take down :-)
e.g. if you place them on boxes (entrance to the right in auxilary node on rockdown for example)
The Problem is if one marine walks in a room or through a doorframe and the wip attacks him, everybody notice that and shoot the whip, the whip can't reach or see the marines and thats it.
The Whip has to be more sensitive, like the sentry turrets, they start shooting with a delay but when they shoot you are very fast dead.
The whip reaction is slower and not that fast, maybe it need some "knobs" on the slay end and grab the player...haha
But what about spitting some slime at the Marines that they'll be slowed down ?
The whip also could inject some toxic on every hit :)
Yeah, I know we won't see that. Ever.
EDIT:
On the subject of the Fade's second attack, it's completely useless and fills no niche. There is no situation that would warrant switching to it instead of simply swiping the good old fashioned way; the exception being a wish to sorely humiliate your opponent. It's restrictions are so absurdly high in comparison to the damage it does. It's basically focus in NS1, except where focus FRONTLOADS all the damage (making it great), the stab attack BACKLOADS it (making it bad). Oh yeah, and you are immobilized while performing it (making it pitifully bad).
So if the Fade has a Marine close by and in sight, rather than trying to aim Blink against a moving target he could dash towards the target and then deal a normal-damage slash that can easily be followed by the primary attack which is just the basic slash in normal fashion.
Would make them a bit easier to follow in a combat situation for the Marines, but can quickly disappear by shifting to 1 and use Blink to get away.
The hard part would be timing it for solo marines, who you would be vulnerable against if you missed.
On the plus side, you could hit a group easily and escape in the confusion.
now I gotta play some rounds woop woop!
all that talking about NS just makes me wanna play it ^^
e.g. if you place them on boxes (entrance to the right in auxilary node on rockdown for example)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
no. they'll fix this.
The hard part would be timing it for solo marines, who you would be vulnerable against if you missed.
On the plus side, you could hit a group easily and escape in the confusion.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Thanks :)
They could always add some leeway on autoaiming on a target, so if you have the Marine in sight (maybe for a lock-on period perhaps?) and press, the Fade will adjust with a certain speed left/right towards the target. If the target is running sideways from where you are standing then you'll have to predict of course without the auto-adjustment helping out.
That or the Dash-n'-Slash could be a half-phased attack so the Fade actually phases through the marine(s) who takes damage. Although that would be insanely powerful when there's a large cluster of enemies and the fact that it will deal damage as well as disorientate (behind you!) and make it too easy for the Fade to escape from basically any situation.
I wonder if we'll see Metabolize though, that's somewhat of a signature move I believe for the Fade.
Another question: So far aliens only have their first and second attack ability. Will they get the third and fourth one too? And will they be tied to the hives (tiers) like in NS1? I would hope so.
I'm ok with the idea of a fast weak attack on mouse1 and strong slow attack on mouse2. But do it a BIT different, more like Soul Calibur (yeah of all comparisons...)
Horizontal Swipe: Fast to hit (instant) / Fast rate of fire / Shorter range / Wide horizontal Swipe
Vertical attack: Slow to hit (quick charge up) / Slow rate of fire / bit longer range / narrow vertical strike
Also, Ideally blink&leap would return to the reload (alien movement) button and Lerk Roost/cling would join them there.)
I guess not, because its the same.
I don't stop the clock but its like both attacks have the same time to kill a marine, attack 1 gives 50 hp damage, and attack 2 gives 100 hp damage, but in the time attack 2 hit the marine, it also kill the marine with attack 1.
Oh it looks it has more diffrence then i / we guess
<b><u>Data from Lua:</u></b>
<b>Attack 1 is called "SwipeBlink"</b>
<!--c1--><div class='codetop'>CODE</div><div class='codemain'><!--ec1-->SwipeBlink.kRange = 1.5
kSwipeDamage = 80
kSwipeDamageType = kDamageType.Normal
kSwipeFireDelay = 0.5
kSwipeEnergyCost = 6<!--c2--></div><!--ec2-->
<b>Attack 2 is called "StabBlink"</b>
<!--c1--><div class='codetop'>CODE</div><div class='codemain'><!--ec1-->StabBlink.kRange = 3
kStabDamage = 160
kStabDamageType = kDamageType.Puncture
kStabFireDelay = 1.5
kStabEnergyCost = 20
(slows you down)<!--c2--></div><!--ec2-->
but the stab attack cost a lot more and it has a delay of 1.5 seconds, while that you attack with swipe 3 times = 240 damage if you hit and you can move
Edit:
okay, the not big changes if you are on a higher platform, but the double range is good.
But i prefer. the metabolize way more but it makes fade to powerfull maybe.
current problems with blink:
1.each blink you take, you are blinded for split of second. You will end up blinking into walls.
2. you cannot blink into vents
3. blink cannot catch moving targets
4. double clicking to blink, gives the players slow reactions to do each blink. During combat you must constantly select an area to blink to. To understand the problem with this, follow through what I listed above.
these are by far such class breaking ability, I simply cannot understand why allow this slow blinking in the first place. Compared with ns1 fade, current fade blinks with blinders on his face. And he's really slow compared with ns1 fade. Those who honestly did fade in ns1, or understand the importance of things I've listed will see my point. Those who haven't experienced ns1 or haven't faded throughout the game will not. I've said before, this ability offers nothing more than special effects right now, and the game needs to be more than just special effects.
as for whips being useless, at some point they are. You can just run by them with little damage to yourself, and they have short range as well. Maybe extending the range of the whips, or damage might reduce having no fear to just run pass them.
2. you cannot blink into vents
3. blink cannot catch moving targets
4. double clicking to blink, gives the players slow reactions to do each blink. During combat you must constantly select an area to blink to. To understand the problem with this, follow through what I listed above.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
1. yeah i am always confused because if you blink your view also get attached to the "placed-" front so if you look above, your views center automatic
2. thats because of the fade size but big vents, works good (also outside the map ^^)
3. it has some "autotarget" which confuse me more then it helps
4. i never got a problem with double click.
Blinking is ok but you are right not done, but the most parts are not done i guess.
For example skulk wallrunning don't work always.
Lerk flying is a bit weird which end up most times you knock against a doorframe and i see a lot of people ending like that...they look like burned flies who fly against a windowglass
So? One whip shouldn't hold off a marine, and honestly I've rarely seen that. A combination of defenses including whips is far more effective and should be encouraged - which is in fact what I see more often.
Feint could possibly let the Fade perform a fake Blink to distract marines, while Sap sounds like an upgrade that either: increases the Fade's damage against structures, or stun marines (WoW really distorted the meaning of Sap).