First Cheater?

Price

<div class="IPBDescription">or just a bug?</div><!--sizeo:7--><span style="font-size:36pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->CAN BE DELETED<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->

I join a server and i saw this
<img src="http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/5009/91344031.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<img src="http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/9683/yxch.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
How can a player do that?
Its one of the good Armory Chamber server so im sure the admins don't cheat, or did they just use cheatmode? who knows but first time i saw this...
And you can't fall through level to the ready room...i guess, because its not near the real map, its far away.

What do you think was it?
I know there a lot of bugs like a lot of sentrys in one sentry, or building whip into walls, for example at marine spawn, i saw a lot of weird things but not in the ready room.

tyrael64

<!--quoteo(post=1821919:date=Jan 6 2011, 03:13 AM:name=McGlaspie)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (McGlaspie @ Jan 6 2011, 03:13 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1821919"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=111580&view=findpost&p=1821798" target="_blank">I can confirm seeing the issue shown in the last picture</a>. I'm not sure how it happened, but basically someone figured out how to fly to the RR as a lerk or teleport there as a Fade, morphed into a Gorge once there, etc etc.

A simple check could be put in that would solve this problem: In the main server loop, check a player's point of origin and if it is outside the Map Extents AND they are on a team, kill the player.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Jaweese

Blink out of the map as fade
Evolve to lerk
Fly to the RR
Evolve to fade again
Blink into the RR

ASnogarD

Its a case of a [ insert your personal favourite description of something you absolutely detest and wish grievious bodily harm on ] griever , they somehow get to the RR and hydra spam to lag the server out.

I pity such creatures, imagine how sad your life must be if the height of your pleasure is to ruin others fun ... sad.

Price

<!--quoteo(post=1822080:date=Jan 6 2011, 11:18 PM:name=Jaweese)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jaweese @ Jan 6 2011, 11:18 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1822080"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Blink out of the map as fade
Evolve to lerk
Fly to the RR
Evolve to fade again
Blink into the RR<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Oh that easy, hope UWE will fix it, otherwise it will be done a lot i guess.
I am sure a simple "no_build_trigger" would do the job (like in TF2), or just a noclip like brush arround the rr with fadeblinking block.

Edit:
why this Forum has no delete my own Threads button...
its rockdown and its just a test map, i know now how its done, its just "glitching"...what a surprise-

weezl

you gotta acknowledge the ingenuity ^^

Sehzade

<!--quoteo(post=1822088:date=Jan 6 2011, 11:54 PM:name=weezl)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (weezl @ Jan 6 2011, 11:54 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1822088"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->you gotta acknowledge the ingenuity ^^<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

+1

I love such stuff...what ppl come up with to test the system. find weaknesses and ways to improve sth (doing sth better than most ppl do)

ofc it sucks that the server laggs. but it's a bit genious nonetheless.

Runteh

Started mucking about in the readyroom ages ago when Rockdown had that big hole at west. I didn't spam Hydras though, just freaked out a few joiners with fade.

Another thing to try is becoming Lerk, and for some reason there are player models whizzing about above the map showing the location of what the commanders are viewing. Flying up to block their view with a massive Lerk in the face is quite funny.

Played on a server the other day with cheats on, and someone on here knew me from the forums (wasn't using my alias <). I love going Onos with a minigun, though unfortunately you get stuck in the same position every time you fire and have to kill yourself to move again.

Kouji_San

Blink is a ###### to try and contain!

MOOtant

I don't know how to reproduce but I saw lerk outside rockdown shooting spikes at everything/everyone and not getting hit at all. Like classic below the map made with displacements in Source.

Rulgrok

I've had people lerk outside the map and spike down marine structures on me a few times now. It is quite irritating and I hope a simple kill outside of the map function could be put in the next build or so. There are a lot of bugs and exploits in the game right now and a lot of players are doing the best to play the game within reasonable standards but for others they'll do whatever they can to get the satisfaction of a win. I know sometimes gestating you'll drop through the map but purposely getting out of the map to grief is something that needs to be taken care of.

Kouji_San

outside of minimap_extends, while not in the RR should result in instant death. But they way the minimap_extends entity is set up kinda makes it difficult to check for simply going outside the map. Maybe they could use the location entities instead for this as you can put multiple entities down to follow the shape of a room... Every room and even vents do need a location entity this way though... But it would be the easiest to fix in terms of mapping and getting this death trigger into the engine...

McGlaspie

<!--quoteo(post=1822102:date=Jan 6 2011, 06:44 PM:name=Kouji_San)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kouji_San @ Jan 6 2011, 06:44 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1822102"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->outside of minimap_extends, while not in the RR should result in instant death. But they way the minimap_extends entity is set up kinda makes it difficult to check for simply going outside the map. Maybe they could use the location entities instead for this as you can put multiple entities down to follow the shape of a room... Every room and even vents do need a location entity this way though... But it would be the easiest to fix in terms of mapping and getting this death trigger into the engine...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->I tend to agree with the basic idea Kouji, but using all the possible location entities for ALL players in the game, every game tick....that's a LOT of stuff to loop over every game loop/tick. Keep in mind, you'll have to either to radius bounds checks per player and/or some simple <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linear_algebra" target="_blank">Linear Algebra</a> for each player. Ugh. I'm going to do some experiments on this one and try to come up with a fix for this. If I find a workable solution I'll post it here or in the modding forum.

Thanks for the acknowledgment tyrael64. *nods*

uffo

<!--quoteo(post=1822109:date=Jan 7 2011, 01:58 AM:name=McGlaspie)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (McGlaspie @ Jan 7 2011, 01:58 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1822109"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I tend to agree with the basic idea Kouji, but using all the possible location entities for ALL players in the game, every game tick....that's a LOT of stuff to loop over every game loop/tick. Keep in mind, you'll have to either to radius bounds checks per player and/or some simple <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linear_algebra" target="_blank">Linear Algebra</a> for each player. Ugh. I'm going to do some experiments on this one and try to come up with a fix for this. If I find a workable solution I'll post it here or in the modding forum.

Thanks for the acknowledgment tyrael64. *nods*<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

or the devs could finally put in trigger_hurt (hurting/killing the player who touches it) so we could just surround the map's boundaries with it.

Price

<!--quoteo(post=1822182:date=Jan 7 2011, 03:23 AM:name=uffo)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (uffo @ Jan 7 2011, 03:23 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1822182"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->or the devs could finally put in trigger_hurt (hurting/killing the player who touches it) so we could just surround the map's boundaries with it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
do you know how big a map is?
lol

elmo33

<!--quoteo(post=1822322:date=Jan 7 2011, 02:15 PM:name=Price)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Price @ Jan 7 2011, 02:15 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1822322"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->do you know how big a map is?
lol<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->


And do you care to explain what does the size of the map matter in this case?

uffo

<!--quoteo(post=1822322:date=Jan 7 2011, 02:15 PM:name=Price)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Price @ Jan 7 2011, 02:15 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1822322"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->do you know how big a map is?
lol<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Well yes, yes I do, as I have created quite several.

SgtBarlow

The game already has trigger_hurt.
Not feasable to use locations for this.
Placing and managing trigger hurts is not feasable, if maps constantly change, if you alter a room and trigger ends up inside roof space.
There are many problems with these two suggestions.

uffo

<!--quoteo(post=1822349:date=Jan 7 2011, 04:15 PM:name=SgtBarlow)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SgtBarlow @ Jan 7 2011, 04:15 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1822349"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The game already has trigger_hurt.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I have completely missed that! :D

<!--quoteo(post=1822349:date=Jan 7 2011, 04:15 PM:name=SgtBarlow)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SgtBarlow @ Jan 7 2011, 04:15 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1822349"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Placing and managing trigger hurts is not feasable, if maps constantly change, if you alter a room and trigger ends up inside roof space.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
wouldn't be much of a drag if you create them just before a new release. It's not like they're permanently fixed to one position after the initial placement.
How about an entity for non-blinking areas? This way mappers can still create those unreachable small rooms that serves no other purpose than just being eye-candy.

iBlaze_

This is what I experienced today.

I was playing on european armory servers.

I was commanding kharaa and ____ was commanding frontiersmen. I believe he was more than your average commander. Others called him/her a spammer from the start and I thought "so be a spammer so what". My team hold them of and we had all tech points. Marines took out 2 of our hives but we were able sneak drifters in and build hives back before they were able to expand to the tech points. We were doing well but suddenly..

After like 10-15 minutes from the start of the game I started seeing buildings going up in flames.
"FLAMETHROWERS!!" and no expansion. They did not even have a chance to build expansion.

I demanded answers but i received no comment from the commander (who kept his mouth shut the whole game) His teammates finally started talking and said that he is an exploiter and a bug user.. not a cheater. "lay of this is just a beta..", "this is allowed coz it is just a beta".

So my team raged and I was the last one left on my team when we lost.
And yes I posted on the getsatisfaction as well. I thought I post here as well. It is not like I created a new topic.

Anyone else seen this?

Runteh

Hydra spam is causing a huge problem at the moment. Played on a few servers, and new player don't know that they lag servers. Tram is awful when you are having a good game, someone joins and drops 60 throughout the map.

Tig

This isn't really a problem. I realized this could be done on my map as well (i have an outdoor area with outwards facing geometry to keep lerks from flying away) and i tested it and i could blink outside the map as a fade and then lerk fly to the RR and blink back in and gorge to drop hydras.

Solution? a nice big fat death trigger right outside the outwards facing geometry. it will only kill you if you somehow manage to get outside the boundary geometry (which can only be done with fade blink). I tested it, and no matter where i managed to blink, it killed me.

so wherever you have a fan or a grating or a window that faces the outside world, throw a nice death trigger on the other side.

it's also a good idea to throw a death trigger under your entire level just in case someone falls through (egg evolution sometimes slips through grates and gets you stuck in a freefall.

Kouji_San

@Tig, Fade can't blink trough the collision mesh either. Well for now, not sure if this is intended or not as it also makes it impossible to blink trough railings that are encased in the stuff...

Tig

<!--quoteo(post=1822424:date=Jan 7 2011, 02:55 PM:name=Kouji_San)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kouji_San @ Jan 7 2011, 02:55 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1822424"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->@Tig, Fade can't blink trough the collision mesh either. Well for now, not sure if this is intended or not as it also makes it impossible to blink trough railings that are encased in the stuff...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

didn't try that, but in my situation that wouldn't work. i can't be having skulks running on air :-P

Racer1

Adding hurt/death triggers outside the regular map is like treating the symptoms of an illness rather than the illness itself. I'd rather see time put in to fix fade blink issues.

Kouji_San

Ah yes, I forgot about that :P

Thaldarin

Solution? Put it all on the shoulders of our wonderboy Max, who has already lost his hair through stress and is progressively going balder each day (if possible) as it should be down to the engine containing the player inside by boundary and not, a player being able to blink outside just to die.

Tig

<!--quoteo(post=1822432:date=Jan 7 2011, 03:05 PM:name=Thaldarin)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Thaldarin @ Jan 7 2011, 03:05 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1822432"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Solution? Put it all on the shoulders of our wonderboy Max, who has already lost his hair through stress and is progressively going balder each day (if possible) as it should be down to the engine containing the player inside by boundary and not, a player being able to blink outside just to die.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

thats all well and good, but in the meantime, i'm putting death triggers strategically in my map to stop griefing so people can play my map.