Balance Teams

ptitfou · November 2002

<div class="IPBDescription">ns suxors until teams balance</div> hi, I've been playing many many many ns games as an alien, on many servers n with many different players
and I only won once...Y ?
coz of those .........<img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='asrifle.gif'> THAT (not who) think to b 7 vs 4, or even more is the only chance of winning !!!!
WHEN WILL THAT GREAT GAME CONCEPTORS WILL FORCE BALANCED TEAMS !<img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='confused.gif'>

RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH !!
gonna stop playing coz this kills the game... <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/mad.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='mad.gif'>

Hatred · November 2002

You are half right, until the teams are at the right numbers. With people who know what they are doing on the alien side the marines need to out number the aliens by one. Now of course the way the game is meant to work is that the aliens should out number the marines by about 5 and that should be fair, since the marines have got better weapons, but with 1.01 this changed so the marines have more resource pressure along with worse stuff, it will change though. There are more than enough people complaining about it.

GhostBomber · November 2002

I can honestly say this is the first negative opinion I have EVER heard about NS since 1.01 was released. I don't know who you were playing with, but right now it should -appear- to be just the opposite as you see it. The game is pretty balanced right now!

MbOoGiE · November 2002

its not the other teams fault if half your guys leave.

or are you just incapable of any sort of sympathetic reasoning? your expecting people from another team, who felt like they worked hard for a victory, to just pick up and leave because that 11 v 9 match that favored marines is now an 11 v 5 match that favored aliens... then all of a sudden act like the reason you lost is because of uneven teams?

that pisses me off so bad. i've seen so many games where it was 9 v 7 that favored a particular team, and once that team starts losing, the winning team picks up 2 more people, then the rest of the team leaves... i hear this shout of OMG TEAMS!!!!!!!!!111

stfu already.

Rice-Rocketeer · November 2002

Bah! I HATE THIS. Always, ALWAYS when I join a server, I use "Random Team" or try to balance out the teams as they are when I join.

You know what, Mr. MbOoGiE? It *is* the other teams fault for not balancing out the teams, period. ...sympathetic reasoning? What the dilly-o is that? (Perhaps you meant "rational thought"?) Anyhow, if an 11 vs. 9 match of marines versus aliens is occuring, and 4 aliens leave...I do not blame them. Why? The marines have TWO more players than the aliens, and that counts for A LOT (unless the two extra players have the mental capacity of a clubbed-up baby seal - which judging from your views/attitude is not very hard to believe [Just joshin'/joking! Hehehe! Honest!] <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'> ). Now if it is perhaps 10 vs. 9, and half of the aliens quit. Then yes, they are morons. As well, some of those 11 marines in an 11 vs. 5 game SHOULD switch to the aliens. You also go on to say "...then all of a sudden act like the reason you lost is because of uneven teams?" Hmm...oddly enough, you contradict yourself here, because you state that the game is "11 vs. 9". That is uneven, I would say...unless you are unable to count, perhaps? Do you know WHY these people quit, too? It's because you REFUSE to balance the teams! ARGH! (Sorry if I seem froward and confrontational, but I have had very much negative experience with individuals that REFUSE TO SWITCH TEAMS IN THE NAME OF BALANCE.)

Similarly, Mr. GhostBomber, I have still heard cries for balanced teams since the inclusion of the NS 1.01 server-side patch. And, whoa...if this is the *first* negative opinion you've heard about NS 1.01 since it was released, you must be very new to the forums, because if you look on the general discussion page, about 2/3rds of these posts are complaints. Don't get me wrong. I have no complaints at all (except the occasional terrible server/individuals that we are forced to play with).

Lastly, I'm sick of you people being RUDE to newbies on the forums. He's just expressing his opinion, so why do you have to tell him to "shut up/shot your hole/stfu"? You don't want to scare away potential players, you want to SUPPORT IT. Alienating potential players is NOT a way to help the community at all.

I am SICK of some of you people not hearing our pleas to EVEN THE TEAMS UP! I do *not* understand why this is so difficult for you to do? There are hundreds of games to join, so you can be aliens or marines later. And for those team-hopping jerk-faces that always like to join the winning team: I HATE YOU. UGH.

the_stalker · November 2002

it was still uneven, even with the patch? <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='wow.gif'>

JA1num · November 2002

teams are usually fine when people from a certain teams left the game and making it unbalance,nothing to do with NS coz NS already have team balance thingy already,so if u have any problem come here and i'll <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='asrifle.gif'> ur <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='skulk.gif'>

Rice-Rocketeer · November 2002

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (the_stalker @ Nov 15 2002, 11:08 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>it was still uneven, even with the patch? <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='wow.gif'></td></tr></table>
This happens on a lot of the servers I have been on, and sometimes I'm forced to quit in frustration. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='sad.gif'>

(Perhaps it is the area I live in?)

Rough_Divide · November 2002

Ended up in a match where the teams suddenly shot to 8 vs 2.

Me and the other poor alien asked nicely, asked nicely, asked nicely, pleaded, asked what was the deal with not evening the teams, then both left in disgust after six minutes of asking for even teams.

I didn't play for three days after that. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/mad.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='mad.gif'>

<img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='asrifle.gif'> Crack-smoking, rude, jerks.

Ladyskunk · November 2002

You really want to make the teams balanced? Add a force change rule. Teams become unbalanced, random members of the oversized team start team hopping to the undersized team until its even.

But then again, that is the job of active admins, or community members of that server who have rcon access, to keep teams balanced. Either with asking first, then threatening second and if still no joy, finally forcing team balance.

Take care all.

LS

Vyvn · November 2002

Quite honestly, since 1.01, I believe I have seen the MARINES win TWO games.

Obviously, it's all in the teams.

Ladyskunk · November 2002

The main drawback Vyvn, is that no one seems to be willing to stick around to the bitter end. If your team is winning and it appears that your about to just completely devistate the opponent (happens with both the aliens and the marines that I've seen on several servers.) they start to either go back to the Ready room and wait it out, or quit all together.

I've already seen some rather poor attitudes of the winners as well. For the aliens, there are several calls every time to leave the respawn points up and running so they can continue to rack up kills, often the marines are slaughtered before they even have a chance to act.

On the marines side, it was to leave the one hive up and running but completely block any exit out of the hive iteself. Yes, this included the vents where marines waited.

Take care all.

LS

Typhon · November 2002

Well, as for your experience of aliens winning once out of many games, most people here find that aliens win most of the games. People's perceptions of balance depend on who they are playing with, IE its the teams that are unbalanced, not the game.

Def · November 2002

i was just playing nS for like 5 hours straight tonight, and in alot of the match's it was dead even, 9 vs 9 until near the end when the Aliens realized they were going to lose. All of a sudden all the Aliens start dropping like fly's until its like 9 vs 4. And then the people who are left start whining and crying about teams acting like if they get any more people they actually have a chance at winning. Of course all the marines stayed marines until the end because we achived that victory. Its not right to have to switch teams near the end to the losing team so that u lose.

MaxPlank · November 2002

I'm always on serves that are unbalanced and it is a great pain to find a server where teams actually stay balanced. The only time this happens is when an admin is present and smites those jerks that uneven teams. The 2 man up on any team is a big advantage especiallly on servers with less than 12 players. And the reason I stick to small servers is that lag is utterly horrendous with more than 12 players. All you have to do is change the team balancing to 1 instead of 2. If 1 team is 1 man up DON'T let more people join.

LagAdder · November 2002

Public Servers are like a box of chocolates: You never know what you'll get
So much for NS-adapted Gump-Theories. But honestly
- isn't this the main problem with EVERY mod?

Public servers have two major drawbacks when it comes
to team balance, wich haven't really been solved yet.

Unbalance in Team Skill
A rather hidden imbalance: Assume you'll have a constant
balance in numbers... say 8 vs 8 (without dropping or
additional players causing any team ending up with less
players than the other).

At first glance we seem to have perfect balance. Yet you still
may have an imbalance when it comes to the summarized
skill of each team. This in my opinion results in many
'NS game rules are horribly unbalanced' posts, as it virtually
seems like one team gets steamrolled without effort.

This can be rather frustrating, but after all
- sometimes it's just the better team winning.

As this is the point in having competitive teamplay, I don't
really consider this as a flaw but as a given fact that needs
to be considered.

Still I am a person who regards competition on public
servers 2nd place, because my primary concern is an exciting
match. Steamrolling a team of newcomers (and thereby possibly
scaring off potential new players) seems rather boring to me.

No applicable solution to this problem
So an equal spread of skills among teams is desirable, yet almost
unaccomplishable since 'skill' isn't easily measured.

Unbalance in Team Numbers
is being the main problem players are having on many public servers.
On one hand this is caused by people who refuse to join the
smaller team because they insist on playing their favorite race.
Another reason for this is the 'angst' to loose the game by joining
the smaller (i.e. 'weaker') team.

This was adressed with the 1.01 patch, by forcing newly arrived
players to join up the weaker team (although it still allows a
team to have two more players than the other team).

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>- Added auto team-balance: you are not allowed to join a
team if joining it would give that team more then 2 players
more then the other team.</td></tr></table>

I have to admit that there were rare occasions, were I got the
hunch, that even this can be manipulated by the server admin.
Another possibilty could have been that I played on an 1.0 server
labelled as 1.01 server.

On the other hand imbalanced teamnumbers are also caused by
frustrated players leaving the team that has just suffered a major
strategical defeat, assuming the game is already over if it doesn't
work out right away.

Alas they are also caused by players who refuse to
sacrifice an easy victory for the sake of an exciting and fun
game for every player on the server, by leaving their current
team and joining the smaller team.

Exception to the rule
Admittedly it is a tough call to leave the team you played on for almost
an hour fighting viciously for it's victory. Reluctance to change sides is
quite human (ahem... or alien if you're team 2).

Possible solution
Automatically balance the teamnumbers as soon as a certain
discrepancy arises, the player whos been on the larger team
for the shortest time being autoswitched to the smaller team.

Further it must be assured, that the same player doesn't get
switched two times in a row (otherwise he'll leave the server
if all he does is switch teams all the time).

This should only be triggered rather late (say if one team has
3 players more than the other team f.e.) - to avoid problems
(see below)

Possible problems with this solution
If this starts to switch players as soon as one team
has 3 players more than the other it could become
a crazy switcherydoo wich would annoy all players, if
those discrepancies would shift too frequently through
additional players dropping or coming onto the server
rapidly, causing this auto-thingie to go wild.

I am not really sure if such an auto-solution would work
well, but the idea is to be kept in mind.

So far for my 5 cents concerning team balance
I still hope I have inspired the tinkerers in the NS community to
think of a possible technical solution that actually works well
for everyone. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'>

As a conclusion I want to stress again that this is not
a sole NS problem, but a problem that all team based FPSs
share.

JA1num · November 2002

hate loser aliens/humans who all use the mighty 'F4' when they are gonna lose,bloody n00bs who cant handle the pressure/challenge

nate · November 2002

i dont think skill matters much at all this early in NS's career.
however all you of i have seen posting are stating that its aliens fault bla bla.
how come none of you have posted saying its marines fault? can people be blamed for saying "even the teams its 8v4" i dont think so. if teams are uneven i press f4 and swap straight away. i challenge myself to try and win over the winning. plus u get an advantage. u know where everything is already built and u know what they r planning to do next :/

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> All of a sudden all the Aliens start dropping like fly's until its like 9 vs 4. And then the people who are left start whining and crying about teams acting like if they get any more people they actually have a chance at winning </td></tr></table>

tell me would u like to play a 8v4 game? ** play nice or not at all **

Balance Teams

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