Stick to the roots
Arface
Join Date: 2004-04-13 Member: 27906Members
Join Date: 2004-04-13 Member: 27906Members
Before starting, I should state that I play ns since 1.04. I downloaded the game, ns2, since it's very first alpha release. The game was unplayable for me until the latest release (b160, i think). I simply couldn't connect to servers. However, now that I managed to connect, I was prompted to experiment the terrible truth of what NS2 has become. Please do not take this topic as a troll, I'm good a pointing mistakes but people may get it the wrong way.
First of all, I think the game itself doesn't feel like NS. Every single sci-fi corridor looks the same. The movement, sounds, shooting, everything is wierd. The impact from ns1 to ns2 was so big that the game isn't recognizable anymore. Take the example of the transition from cs 1.6 to source. The engine itself changed the game a lot (again, how you move, shoot, feel), but I still could feel like I was playing cs.
Second: remove alien commander. This is just... no. Please, no. I'm completely for the new chambers and stuff, but PLAYERS should build and activate it's abilities, not a commander. The khaara players should work like a hivemind. They shouldn't be commanded by a "supreme alien". For instance, my main alien at ns1 was the lerk. Every single time I was assisting another players by sporing, umbraing or screaming. I depended on another class, the gorges, to build structures and new hives with the player's own resources. The gorge itself depended on us, the offensive classes, to clear the ambient around the new hive and protect what's already built. Now, think of ns2. A gorge built a crag around a corner so that players could use it. Two marines are chasing a skulk and the skulk knows there is a crag nearby. The skulk turns around the corner, wait for the marines to walk into the ambush and activate the crag's umbra. The marines should rely on their commander to drop meds to survive. Both gorge and skulk win. I think that's enough of an explanation of what I mean.
Following the same logic, MACs or whatever they're called were another mistake. The marines depended on the commander to drop buildings, weapons, health and ammo for players. The commander depended on the marines logic, skill and teamplay to build things and gather resources for the team in the most efficient way, by assisting each other and not wasting (resources). FOR THE TEAM. Individual players should be rewarded for their work but not the way it is atm.
I could write some more but I want to know how this topic will be accepted by the community. I know there are many others feeling the same thing I am. Try playing ns1 and read this thread again.
inb4flamethrower
First of all, I think the game itself doesn't feel like NS. Every single sci-fi corridor looks the same. The movement, sounds, shooting, everything is wierd. The impact from ns1 to ns2 was so big that the game isn't recognizable anymore. Take the example of the transition from cs 1.6 to source. The engine itself changed the game a lot (again, how you move, shoot, feel), but I still could feel like I was playing cs.
Second: remove alien commander. This is just... no. Please, no. I'm completely for the new chambers and stuff, but PLAYERS should build and activate it's abilities, not a commander. The khaara players should work like a hivemind. They shouldn't be commanded by a "supreme alien". For instance, my main alien at ns1 was the lerk. Every single time I was assisting another players by sporing, umbraing or screaming. I depended on another class, the gorges, to build structures and new hives with the player's own resources. The gorge itself depended on us, the offensive classes, to clear the ambient around the new hive and protect what's already built. Now, think of ns2. A gorge built a crag around a corner so that players could use it. Two marines are chasing a skulk and the skulk knows there is a crag nearby. The skulk turns around the corner, wait for the marines to walk into the ambush and activate the crag's umbra. The marines should rely on their commander to drop meds to survive. Both gorge and skulk win. I think that's enough of an explanation of what I mean.
Following the same logic, MACs or whatever they're called were another mistake. The marines depended on the commander to drop buildings, weapons, health and ammo for players. The commander depended on the marines logic, skill and teamplay to build things and gather resources for the team in the most efficient way, by assisting each other and not wasting (resources). FOR THE TEAM. Individual players should be rewarded for their work but not the way it is atm.
I could write some more but I want to know how this topic will be accepted by the community. I know there are many others feeling the same thing I am. Try playing ns1 and read this thread again.
inb4flamethrower
Comments
its like seeing someone you haven't seen in years, and you really think "woah he's changed..". while your friend who has been seeing him every day didn't notice the change, as it was subtle and small day by day.
I don't know what my point is myself, and I can't comment on the feeling of the game, as I don't play the beta.
but that's just my 2 cents.
basically: maybe there's some truth in the first post, and.. don't dismiss it as Trolling or badmouthing please.
this could be good...
The example you used with CS is something I've seen before, and it isn't as bad idea but with promising new engine they are trying to add new "improvements" but it cost them to lose long term players.
I have feeling someone will just make mod off ns2 to copy ns1 feeling back into the game. The game is still fun I do agree it doesn't feel as ns1 I've always loved to play. Its partly because the roles and abilities we got used to use/love have changed - and they do need to change some of them back.
Marines can still secure a sector and if it is within line of site the commander can drop structures, which can be built by marines. MACS are now the base-goon and the power_node repair bot
Marines can still secure a sector and if it is within line of site the commander can drop structures, which can be built by marines. MACS are now the base-goon and the power_node repair bot<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ironically though, in order to win against the OP aliens (they're OP before marines get flamethrower anyway), you still need a marine or two staying in base to defend while everyone else pushes out, or else you will likely lose. Those marines could also act as base-goons.
aliens usually strong in the early game, but once marines tech up aliens die like nothing.
the person who made this topic has a lot of valid point. Marines macs shouldn't exist, something needs building commander order marine to do it, something needs repairing, commander drops welder. commander depends on his marines to follow orders not some robot, its about good communication and teamwork - anything that does something anything said here needs to change. Same idea applies to the aliens.
As far as an alien commander, I think it's too soon to really say. Gorges were great fun in NS1, but I'd like to see them able to either be more useful tactically or by building more types of structures.
On paper many of the stuff sounded really good but when the actual presentation is a monster, a brand called NS with similar lifeforms but a completely different game with questionable RTS elements, terrible movement and barely any value on different tech paths opponents or otherwise.
There no such a thing as perfect game, theres always room to improve. If we really wanted a completely different game, we would not be here at all.
Anyway, I think some things needs changing, I agree that some things still "feel" wrong, but this is because of the state of development. I always hated the idea of CS 1.6 and CS:S representing the same game only on different engines. If a game is produced, it shouldn't be a copy. So the same here with NS2. Change things, make this game unique and not just a clone of NS1 on the new (spark?) engine.
First of all, I'm what you would call an "NS oldie", played since the first release back in half-life1 oh the good old VON days... Anyway, lets get started!
The movement, oh the movement! As a marine it's perfect! I see people complaining about the Slow backing up speed, but in my opinion, the speed is perfect like it is. The movement feels fluid, realistic and certainly fitting for a marine (Oh, and it encourages teamwork! Oorah)
MACs/Drifters are a bit silly idea, I always preferred having gorges build Everything on aliens, and MAC... Well, don't know what to think about it. What happened to marines getting welders? Repairign a powernode/building should be done by a marine with a welder or anysort of a tool-/repairkit. Raise the cost of a MAC and we're good to go. Just one small question; what's with those cute "Aw" voices the MAC makes when an alien attacks it? Portal, anyone?
Then the discussion about weapons, sure there are threads in which these are being discussed but lets drop it all here.
- The grenade launcher attachment is... Awesome. I mean, it's a scifi m203, could it be cooler in any way? At least I don't miss the old GLs (Especially not the one with the magazine, though the revolver type was cool, but this attachment prevents spamming in a horrible speed and just overall seems more fitting.)
- Talking about Attachments, just a suggestion. What about anykind of a marksman variant/attachment of the assault rifle? Would require minimal editing of model, small changes in how it works (higher damage, slower rate of fire) and perhaps a small scope, scifi acog? I know the maps in NS aren't exactly large outdoor spaces, but long hallways/tunnels could be the area where this suggestion would shine.
- Alternative fire discussion: Shotgun? It dosn't need/deserve one, shotgun is a shotgun, simple. Hitting with a rifle = Awesome again.
- Pistol looks horrible compared to old one.
- ALIENS NEED MORE "WEAPONS", well... At least they deserve the basics, didn't get to test everything out yet so can't say for sure. Did the Fade lose that acid shooting ability? If so, good I would say. Skulk seems to have everything, as did Lerk if I remember right but Gorge... our war pig needs something new, which I'm sure the devs have already realized and are working on. Does Onos still have Devour, charge and of course Onos still uses that effing huge horn?
Edit 1: Infrantry portals should kill anything standing on it, Anything. Be that a marine, skulk or a fade, it should die. Also, Friendly fire would be an interesting addition. I felt that was always missing from old NS, I mean.. It encouraged very lame tactics, such as a marine running in and drawing all aliens to attack him, only to have his friend spam the bait's feet with a grenade launcher. This would be best to implement as a server-specific setting.
That's it for now, if I receive anykind of feedback I'll update this post after testing things around more.
Meta, out.
Once again, I throw my support behind the idea that NS2 shouldn't just be NS1 with better graphics.
Once again, I throw my support behind the idea that NS2 shouldn't just be NS1 with better graphics.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You're right, we'll make NS2 a commuter train sim since that's certainly what NS1 isn't.
Or maybe we should go more into detail on what parts NS2 should differ. Vague arguments can be used to justify any kind of bullish while still not contributing to the discussion in any possible way, so let's avoid using them.
Once again, I throw my support behind the idea that NS2 shouldn't just be NS1 with better graphics.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
However, it shouldn't be a completely different game with the same aliens and marines. I am (or was?) expecting a much improved version of ns1. I like many of the new features and changes, but what I pointed on the first post is simply game-breaking. Actually, do the devs read these forums?
However, it could be kind of inconvenient for random multiplayer, where some guy can just use up all the resources because he thinks he must play fade, therefore bringing the entire team down with him.
Also, I miss chamber upgrades.
I believe that MACs should be effectively marines with a repair ability and without damage. The same build speed, similar movespeed (to sprint), similar health and armour. Lower the cost, so distant repairs become a viable option; and have the marine team start with 1 MAC and 1 IP, so if the marines want to all-in rush they can.
Drifters are definitely a flawed concept at the moment, though. Too fragile, and you need one drifter consumed to build something (and you have to control and escort that drifter) - at least that's how I understand it, is that right? I haven't been able to spend much time playing aliens (mostly skulk, and lerk). Maybe you could instead have a completed alien building <b>regenerate a drifter upon completion</b>.
That's more or less what I thought of NS1.
NS2 seems to be doing a lot better.
ns1 was gritty, dark, with grey and green tones, gruff and industrialized. the maps were dirty and used, the colours were dark and dirty.
NS2 is much more cleaner with whites and blues, metalic shining objects and absolutely no dirt or used looking things in the maps. it looks really different from NS1, and atmosphere is a big thing for the feeling of the game.
ns1 was gritty, dark, with grey and green tones, gruff and industrialized. the maps were dirty and used, the colours were dark and dirty.
NS2 is much more cleaner with whites and blues, metalic shining objects and absolutely no dirt or used looking things in the maps. it looks really different from NS1, and atmosphere is a big thing for the feeling of the game.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Again I find myself wondering whether everyone is simply swapping NS1 and NS2.
but I think those dirty maps will be more played.