<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Let me see: HL2 cost me $40, it worked perfectly on not that fast laptop at that time, game was awesome and gave access to lots of mods. Now NS2 costs $35, works like ###### on quite expensive computers, isn't feature complete (Onos, JP, ...), has several particle effects that make it look like NS1 and allows 7 vs 7 max with fast server. It also has no marketing at all so chances are you'll be playing on few servers with people on it.
If someone says that I shouldn't compare NS2 to best games that were there then I ask why? I'm consumer I want something for my money.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
it's called a closed beta for a reason. what you paid for was access to the closed beta AND the final product. When the release comes out you can whine about performance all you want.
<!--quoteo(post=1817957:date=Dec 21 2010, 11:21 PM:name=Wheeee)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Wheeee @ Dec 21 2010, 11:21 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1817957"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->it's called a closed beta for a reason. what you paid for was access to the closed beta AND the final product. When the release comes out you can whine about performance all you want.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
There were several big, commercial games that maintained 60 FPS during development (see interviews with authors and so on). And to make it clear - I like NS1, NS2 and I'm 90% sure I'll buy it when playable.
You just put in your answer.... big commercial games, UWE is a small independant unit without the massive capital backing of a large publisher like EA or Activision.
This is the best way to test the game, and polish it for release by getting the fans of NS to assit testing it and reporting issues... hell even the pr is fan assisted, see NS2HD.
If you cant accept that the beta will be flawed and not a demo of the game I suggest you patiantly wait till UWE declares an official release version.
OH man, wicked promotion, aaa great idea if only... i had a friend.
p.s I have Just bought the game, soon MeanMarine will be online kicking some alien butt, or whatever other muscle with immediate proximity to its evacuating orifices.
<!--quoteo(post=1818039:date=Dec 21 2010, 11:51 PM:name=ASnogarD)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ASnogarD @ Dec 21 2010, 11:51 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1818039"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You just put in your answer.... big commercial games, UWE is a small independant unit without the massive capital backing of a large publisher like EA or Activision.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
EA Games/Activions etc. budget smaller studios these days. I wouldn't be surprised if UWE is running a budget 3/4x more than those established studios are run on, mainly because it's a start up and because it's not actually released anything substantial.
I don't know the figures, but I'd assume with the initial and on-going investment, the "pre-order" sales; UWE has taken a much larger amount of money to run on than a smaller studio running under a large corp.
<!--quoteo(post=1818095:date=Dec 21 2010, 09:26 PM:name=Thaldarin)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Thaldarin @ Dec 21 2010, 09:26 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1818095"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->EA Games/Activions etc. budget smaller studios these days. I wouldn't be surprised if UWE is running a budget 3/4x more than those established studios are run on, mainly because it's a start up and because it's not actually released anything substantial.
I don't know the figures, but I'd assume with the initial and on-going investment, the "pre-order" sales; UWE has taken a much larger amount of money to run on than a smaller studio running under a large corp.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
yeah but those small studios build games on proprietary engines that have already been developed. name me a modern fps engine under development that has that kind of small budget.
Kouji_SanSr. Hινε UÏкεεÏεг - EUPT DeputyThe NetherlandsJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
This makes me think btw:
Valve founded by 2 guys who used a ID-software licensed engine and heavily modified it. Then sold Half-Life and we all know what happened after that.
UWE founded by 1 guy and soon another guy joined and the plans was to use Source. An established engine that has proved itself, but this new guy also has something up his sleeve. An engine, which we called Max's engine back then, or something. Now we know it as Spark, the worlds first fully dynamic engine. Soon more guys joined and now we have 5+ guys working on a game and their own engine.
Valve in 12 years, pretty amazing. Using tools and engine that were available, Source was made after funded by the sales of HL CS DOD Blueshift, Oppforce and stuff... Next was Steam, TF2, L4D, L4D2 not to mention HL episodes
UWE in 12 years, starting out with their own game, their own unique engine... Can you imagine :P
<!--quoteo(post=1818212:date=Dec 22 2010, 01:00 AM:name=Kouji_San)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kouji_San @ Dec 22 2010, 01:00 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1818212"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->This makes me think btw:
Valve founded by 2 guys who used a ID-software licensed engine and heavily modified it. Then sold Half-Life and we all know what happened after that.
UWE founded by 1 guy and soon another guy joined and the plans was to use Source. An established engine that has proved itself, but this new guy also has something up his sleeve. An engine, which we called Max's engine back then, or something. Now we know it as Spark, the worlds first fully dynamic engine. Soon more guys joined and now we have 5+ guys working on a game and their own engine.
Valve in 12 years, pretty amazing. Using tools and engine that were available, Source was made after funded by the sales of HL CS DOD Blueshift, Oppforce and stuff... Next was Steam, TF2, L4D, L4D2 not to mention HL episodes
UWE in 12 years, starting out with their own game, their own unique engine... Can you imagine :P<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
yeah. i really hope NS2 succeeds in a big way because i think if they can work out all the kinks in this engine, it's going to end up being used in everything like goldsrc was, and drive the industry forward in a big way. it does so many cool things that no one else does, i can't imagine anybody NOT wanting to use it - dynamic everything, hotloading assets, etc etc.
Kouji_SanSr. Hινε UÏкεεÏεг - EUPT DeputyThe NetherlandsJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
edited December 2010
Commentary/Marine gameplay on rockdown. Including some amazing commander skills by yours truly <img src="http://members.home.nl/m.borgman/ns-forum/smileys/rolleyes.gif" border="0" class="linked-image" />
Specs (well they're on the vid as well) <i>Intel C2D E6420, 2.2Ghz HD4850 512Mb WinXP Pro sp3 2Gb OCZ, 1100Mhz 1280x720, FPS 15-30 Medium with shadows on (finally), 159 had to be ridiculously awful with shadows off for online</i>
Kouji_SanSr. Hινε UÏкεεÏεг - EUPT DeputyThe NetherlandsJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
<!--quoteo(post=1818823:date=Dec 23 2010, 10:02 PM:name=commofdoom)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (commofdoom @ Dec 23 2010, 10:02 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1818823"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->well i officially hate kouji_san<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> My god if it is official, can I forward some of this hatred to NS2HD <img src="http://members.home.nl/m.borgman/ns-forum/smileys/sad.gif" border="0" class="linked-image" /> I mean he is the one with a plutonium powered rig and all. While I still die to Skulks due to lower FPS (I swear, it's the FPS man!)
UWE this is amazing, thank you i got a good gift for two friends: <img src="http://img690.imageshack.us/img690/3673/gorgexmaslowreskopie.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<!--quoteo(post=1818212:date=Dec 22 2010, 05:00 AM:name=Kouji_San)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kouji_San @ Dec 22 2010, 05:00 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1818212"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->This makes me think btw:
Valve founded by 2 guys who used a ID-software licensed engine and heavily modified it. Then sold Half-Life and we all know what happened after that.
UWE founded by 1 guy and soon another guy joined and the plans was to use Source. An established engine that has proved itself, but this new guy also has something up his sleeve. An engine, which we called Max's engine back then, or something. Now we know it as Spark, the worlds first fully dynamic engine. Soon more guys joined and now we have 5+ guys working on a game and their own engine.
Valve in 12 years, pretty amazing. Using tools and engine that were available, Source was made after funded by the sales of HL CS DOD Blueshift, Oppforce and stuff... Next was Steam, TF2, L4D, L4D2 not to mention HL episodes
UWE in 12 years, starting out with their own game, their own unique engine... Can you imagine :P<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Valve were smart though. Yes it took them 5 years to re-develop the technology how they wanted it for the latter games all Steam released (HL2/Source onwards); however Valve weren't fools. They did not put their eggs in one basket, they did not count on Half-Life 2 being their saving grace, they licensed CS, DoD, Gunman, CZ etc. to fund theirselves while they worked on not only making their core gaming business around Source/HL2; but further developed Steam to become a bigger return on profit than any of us could have conceived.
I guess what I've just summed up is a clear, sustainable and expansive business plan that's been unwrapped to us in such a strategical way that Valve have went from a poor gaming studio to a mega rich one in 12 years.
One will only hope that for the behalf of UWE, their engine is technologically advanced enough and well presented enough to get in some much needed cash; so that early promise of free DLC for NS2, way back before Spark was announce; wasn't an empty one.
Kouji_SanSr. Hινε UÏкεεÏεг - EUPT DeputyThe NetherlandsJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
<!--quoteo(post=1818834:date=Dec 23 2010, 10:29 PM:name=Raza.)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Raza. @ Dec 23 2010, 10:29 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1818834"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->That's one monster screen you got there! Also pretty good performance for that resolution. ;)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Hehe, awesome. My screen is 4.5 meters wide :P
<!--quoteo(post=1817955:date=Dec 22 2010, 08:19 AM:name=MOOtant)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MOOtant @ Dec 22 2010, 08:19 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1817955"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Let me see: HL2 cost me $40, it worked perfectly on not that fast laptop at that time, game was awesome and gave access to lots of mods. Now NS2 costs $35.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Did HL2 cost $40 when it was released? Huh... Well 40*(1.035)^7 = 50.89. So really, you're complaining that NS2 costs 45% less than HL2 did. How much of a discount to usual game prices do you want exactly?
Now back on topic, the christmas promo made some of my mates jump in and buy. After they finished paying me out for NS2HD haha! Merry Christmas all!
HL2 cost $50 for the regular "bronze" edition, $60 for the "silver" edition (which I got because it came with DOD:S, which was worth $10 to me), and there was a "gold" collector's edition too. (I believe this was before they did 10% off preorders) It was the most I ever spent on one package, but I put more hours into that package than all the others, easy. The right price is not an easy thing to find for digital information.
I bought an extra copy, i hope evryone else that has some money to spare does the same, the team deserves it. I can't wait for the day it will start selling on Steam, this game is great.
<!--quoteo(post=1818866:date=Dec 24 2010, 01:29 AM:name=NS2HD)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (NS2HD @ Dec 24 2010, 01:29 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1818866"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Did HL2 cost $40 when it was released? Huh... Well 40*(1.035)^7 = 50.89. So really, you're complaining that NS2 costs 45% less than HL2 did. How much of a discount to usual game prices do you want exactly?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I don't want any kind of discount. (My HL2 was closer to $45 I guess). I just want the features. From project management point of view UWE <b>chose every single riskiest option possible</b> and I have to trust them that they got things right. (+ I'm not buying until I get stable 30+ fps :P) Abstracting from myself: how many people do you know hadn't heard of NS bought it? Before Christmas promo.
Comments
Now NS2 costs $35, works like ###### on quite expensive computers, isn't feature complete (Onos, JP, ...), has several particle effects that make it look like NS1 and allows 7 vs 7 max with fast server. It also has no marketing at all so chances are you'll be playing on few servers with people on it.
If someone says that I shouldn't compare NS2 to best games that were there then I ask why? I'm consumer I want something for my money.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
it's called a closed beta for a reason. what you paid for was access to the closed beta AND the final product. When the release comes out you can whine about performance all you want.
There were several big, commercial games that maintained 60 FPS during development (see interviews with authors and so on). And to make it clear - I like NS1, NS2 and I'm 90% sure I'll buy it when playable.
This is the best way to test the game, and polish it for release by getting the fans of NS to assit testing it and reporting issues... hell even the pr is fan assisted, see NS2HD.
If you cant accept that the beta will be flawed and not a demo of the game I suggest you patiantly wait till UWE declares an official release version.
p.s I have Just bought the game, soon MeanMarine will be online kicking some alien butt, or whatever other muscle with immediate proximity to its evacuating orifices.
EA Games/Activions etc. budget smaller studios these days. I wouldn't be surprised if UWE is running a budget 3/4x more than those established studios are run on, mainly because it's a start up and because it's not actually released anything substantial.
I don't know the figures, but I'd assume with the initial and on-going investment, the "pre-order" sales; UWE has taken a much larger amount of money to run on than a smaller studio running under a large corp.
I don't know the figures, but I'd assume with the initial and on-going investment, the "pre-order" sales; UWE has taken a much larger amount of money to run on than a smaller studio running under a large corp.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
yeah but those small studios build games on proprietary engines that have already been developed. name me a modern fps engine under development that has that kind of small budget.
Valve founded by 2 guys who used a ID-software licensed engine and heavily modified it. Then sold Half-Life and we all know what happened after that.
UWE founded by 1 guy and soon another guy joined and the plans was to use Source. An established engine that has proved itself, but this new guy also has something up his sleeve. An engine, which we called Max's engine back then, or something. Now we know it as Spark, the worlds first fully dynamic engine. Soon more guys joined and now we have 5+ guys working on a game and their own engine.
Valve in 12 years, pretty amazing. Using tools and engine that were available, Source was made after funded by the sales of HL CS DOD Blueshift, Oppforce and stuff... Next was Steam, TF2, L4D, L4D2 not to mention HL episodes
UWE in 12 years, starting out with their own game, their own unique engine... Can you imagine :P
Valve founded by 2 guys who used a ID-software licensed engine and heavily modified it. Then sold Half-Life and we all know what happened after that.
UWE founded by 1 guy and soon another guy joined and the plans was to use Source. An established engine that has proved itself, but this new guy also has something up his sleeve. An engine, which we called Max's engine back then, or something. Now we know it as Spark, the worlds first fully dynamic engine. Soon more guys joined and now we have 5+ guys working on a game and their own engine.
Valve in 12 years, pretty amazing. Using tools and engine that were available, Source was made after funded by the sales of HL CS DOD Blueshift, Oppforce and stuff... Next was Steam, TF2, L4D, L4D2 not to mention HL episodes
UWE in 12 years, starting out with their own game, their own unique engine... Can you imagine :P<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
yeah. i really hope NS2 succeeds in a big way because i think if they can work out all the kinks in this engine, it's going to end up being used in everything like goldsrc was, and drive the industry forward in a big way. it does so many cool things that no one else does, i can't imagine anybody NOT wanting to use it - dynamic everything, hotloading assets, etc etc.
Specs (well they're on the vid as well)
<i>Intel C2D E6420, 2.2Ghz
HD4850 512Mb
WinXP Pro sp3
2Gb OCZ, 1100Mhz
1280x720, FPS 15-30
Medium with shadows on (finally), 159 had to be ridiculously awful with shadows off for online</i>
<center><object width="450" height="356"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/TqSKgazJdfE"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/TqSKgazJdfE" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="450" height="356"></embed></object></center>
<div align='center'><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TqSKgazJdfE" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TqSKgazJdfE</a></div>
My god if it is official, can I forward some of this hatred to NS2HD <img src="http://members.home.nl/m.borgman/ns-forum/smileys/sad.gif" border="0" class="linked-image" /> I mean he is the one with a plutonium powered rig and all. While I still die to Skulks due to lower FPS (I swear, it's the FPS man!)
<img src="http://img690.imageshack.us/img690/3673/gorgexmaslowreskopie.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
That's one monster screen you got there!
Also pretty good performance for that resolution. ;)
Valve founded by 2 guys who used a ID-software licensed engine and heavily modified it. Then sold Half-Life and we all know what happened after that.
UWE founded by 1 guy and soon another guy joined and the plans was to use Source. An established engine that has proved itself, but this new guy also has something up his sleeve. An engine, which we called Max's engine back then, or something. Now we know it as Spark, the worlds first fully dynamic engine. Soon more guys joined and now we have 5+ guys working on a game and their own engine.
Valve in 12 years, pretty amazing. Using tools and engine that were available, Source was made after funded by the sales of HL CS DOD Blueshift, Oppforce and stuff... Next was Steam, TF2, L4D, L4D2 not to mention HL episodes
UWE in 12 years, starting out with their own game, their own unique engine... Can you imagine :P<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Valve were smart though. Yes it took them 5 years to re-develop the technology how they wanted it for the latter games all Steam released (HL2/Source onwards); however Valve weren't fools. They did not put their eggs in one basket, they did not count on Half-Life 2 being their saving grace, they licensed CS, DoD, Gunman, CZ etc. to fund theirselves while they worked on not only making their core gaming business around Source/HL2; but further developed Steam to become a bigger return on profit than any of us could have conceived.
I guess what I've just summed up is a clear, sustainable and expansive business plan that's been unwrapped to us in such a strategical way that Valve have went from a poor gaming studio to a mega rich one in 12 years.
One will only hope that for the behalf of UWE, their engine is technologically advanced enough and well presented enough to get in some much needed cash; so that early promise of free DLC for NS2, way back before Spark was announce; wasn't an empty one.
Also pretty good performance for that resolution. ;)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Hehe, awesome. My screen is 4.5 meters wide :P
Now NS2 costs $35.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Did HL2 cost $40 when it was released? Huh... Well 40*(1.035)^7 = 50.89. So really, you're complaining that NS2 costs 45% less than HL2 did. How much of a discount to usual game prices do you want exactly?
Now back on topic, the christmas promo made some of my mates jump in and buy. After they finished paying me out for NS2HD haha! Merry Christmas all!
Engine in BETA state (spark is its name?)
What do you expect xD?. Next time don't buy a BETA if you don't want to test a game.
I don't want any kind of discount. (My HL2 was closer to $45 I guess). I just want the features. From project management point of view UWE <b>chose every single riskiest option possible</b> and I have to trust them that they got things right. (+ I'm not buying until I get stable 30+ fps :P)
Abstracting from myself: how many people do you know hadn't heard of NS bought it? Before Christmas promo.
Also Beta in big company games is more like an extended free weekend of play via steam.
But I guess you are the kind of guy who would even complain about things like the Humble Indie Bundle.
Who do I contact to rectify this!
Cheers
Armz
No, look up... higher... there.