I made a copy of an existing texture and just edited the logo into the diffuse map. Other way would have been to create an overlay texture or prop and place it as close to the wall as you can get. I don't think the engine supports decals yet, but when it does this should be easier to achieve.
<!--quoteo(post=1923158:date=Apr 8 2012, 06:11 PM:name=swalk)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (swalk @ Apr 8 2012, 06:11 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1923158"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->When will we mortals be able to test out this amazingly good looking map, from a gameplay perspective? ;) It's really looking great!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
We had a little testplay session, but I didn't get straight answers to questions. Mainly players thought that the map is maybe too big (even though it's a little smaller than ns2_summit)
After testplay we noticed that Lounge and Crew Quarters are way too big and they have to be made smaller (they are still placeholders). I think that if we make Lounge and Crew Quarters smaller, then we also have to make the whole map a little bit smaller, so that hallways between them don't grow too long and to keep the idea of two "close" RTs.
I should also add vents for skulks so that it would be easier to have real testplays on the map.
What test players liked about the map, were our already complete areas, like Cafe and Reseach Room. Biodome and Airlock hexagons were also regarded as good looking detail in game.
The next testplay release will be alpha2 and it will be again "invitation only" and after we decide which version is better, we will share it to open testplay.
ZeikkoJoin Date: 2007-12-16Member: 63179Members, Squad Five Blue, NS2 Map Tester
edited April 2012
I had a little test run on the map and I have to say that it's looking very good! I'm very happy that you have already taking feedback from players before spending too much effort on the visuals. I would say that after little tweaks to the layout, adding vents, some hiding places and couple of props this map is ready for larger scale playtesting.
<!--quoteo(post=1923288:date=Apr 8 2012, 11:00 PM:name=Varathar)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Varathar @ Apr 8 2012, 11:00 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1923288"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->After testplay we noticed that Lounge and Crew Quarters are way too big and they have to be made smaller (they are still placeholders). I think that if we make Lounge and Crew Quarters smaller, then we also have to make the whole map a little bit smaller, so that hallways between them don't grow too long and to keep the idea of two "close" RTs.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I agree with you that the Lounge and Crew Quarters are little bit too big. I would also argue that Railway Station is a little bit too big room too. But also the fact that they are only simple boxes at this moment makes them look bigger than they are when they're completed with props etc. So don't make them too small. I also agree that the hallways are too long. There are also some hallways that feel very artificial and useless. Especially the double corridor thing south from Airlock feels weird and the fact that Atrium has hallways on both sides of the room, essentially making it three rooms next to it.
The map essentially consists of 9 rooms that are laid out in square and then marine start and alien start on top and bottom of these rooms. Then there are 3 routes from each start to the adjacent rooms and 4 routes from the middle rooms to the northern and southern rooms.
Extra care needs to be taken care of the hallway length because there are four routes from the middle rooms to the northern and southern rooms. This means that it is highly unlikely that marines can have a player in each route in 6v6 game. With corridors being as long as they are now aliens could easily just wait for the marines to get further from base and then just use the route that doesn't contain any marines to rush their base without marines having any counter for this maneuver.
I like the 3-4-4-3 routes layout but it feels like there's huge amount of routes and that there will be lot of empty hallways in 6v6 setup. I have a feeling that 2-3-3-2 routes could work better, but I guess it's too late to make this kind of principal layout change anymore. We'll see how it works in the playtesting. Just make sure this is tested well!
I hate the introduction of natural expansion in NS2 because it is so imbalanced atleast with the current gameplay. It also makes tech point strategies very boring because both teams know in advance where the aliens will build their hive. Thus I would live to see a version of this map with tech points in Biodome, Atrium and Water Treatment. In the other hand the fact that rts are placed far away from the tech point give a little bit of strategic decisions to this map but not as much as three equally good tech points would. I am pretty sure aliens will always go for Research room RT, Lounge RT, Airlock Hive in this order. Maybe building Atrium and Water Treatment RTs before the hive depending on the map control and current NS2 game mechanics.
I also love the fact that Atrium and Biodome are connected but Atrium and Water Treatment are not connected to each other. This kind of separates the map in half. I hope there will not be any vents between Atrium and Water Treatment either.
You're having nice amount "uphills" and "downhills" on the corridors but i think there could be also more clever use of vertical space. All the entrances to each room seem to be at the same height level. There aren't any catwalks or stuff like that either. The map looks little bit like it was a lego construct built on floor if you get what i mean. There are good use of "hills" and stairs as I said but there could be something more creative too.
Also something to add next would be adding more stuff on the ceilings for skulks and lerks to hide and fly. Gratings, pillars, etc. You can look the new version of triad for some great inspiration on this aspect.
If all this was TL;DR <ul><li>Shorter hallways</li><li>Couple of rooms could be smaller</li><li>Think about the techpoint placement once more</li><li>More vertical action</li><li>More routes and hiding places in the ceiling</li></ul>
All in all it looks great on the gameplay persepective! I can't wait to test this out. I'm really hoping the first public test release will be in couple of weeks so we could have a new map to test with the whole community.
<!--quoteo(post=1929554:date=Apr 25 2012, 09:41 AM:name=docloulou)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (docloulou @ Apr 25 2012, 09:41 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1929554"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->do you have some news for us ?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah, kind of. I've been working on making the map a little smaller and I'm half way there. The reason why I have been so slow, is that I had to finish my degree work in month and I'm moving to a new apartment, which needs a little paint on it and other fixes. Also my fiance and team exertus keep me busy.
So when the dust settles I will continue to make adjustments and after that me and perso are going to crank it.
Will this map be completed before version 1.0?? I really hope so the framerates on this map are AMAZING. Not to mention I think it is going to look beautiful and have the best balance.
Realistically, I doubt that the map will be ready before 1.0, but our goal is to have at least some sort of playable version ready by then. This of course depends on how lazy / busy we are going to be, and when ns2 hits 1.0.
The layout has gone through some resizing, as we moved the marine and alien sides a bit closer to the middle of the map (see Varathar's post). This in turn means that a great deal of the existing occlusion culling geometry has to be moved or remade from scratch. It means a lot of mechanical work, which is a tad annoying, but necessary to ensure good framerates.
I'll try get cranking on this so that I can have some new screenshots to post here by next weekend. I might also post an overview image where all the finished/unfinished areas are marked, to give a better idea how the map is progressing. Suffice to say, there's still lots of work to do.
relieved to finally have some more techy textures and props to work with, perso
<!--quoteo(post=1957907:date=Aug 6 2012, 02:05 AM:name=JuCCi-PuCCi)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (JuCCi-PuCCi @ Aug 6 2012, 02:05 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1957907"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Is there a playable download we could get? Id like to test this on one of our servers.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Layout so far... Expect more images on weekend. Also majority of the hallways and rooms with dev textures are still wip. <img src="http://plantdev.no-ip.org/images/plant/alpha2/ns2_plant_overview_08082012.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
Still having some problems with a couple of smallish doors between loading bay and reception. Problem is that MAC or ARC can't pass those doorways. Has anyone got a clue how this could be fixed? Should I try to adjust parameters in the "pathing_settings" entity or should I just make the doorways larger?
<!--quoteo(post=1959357:date=Aug 8 2012, 03:42 PM:name=perso)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (perso @ Aug 8 2012, 03:42 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1959357"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Still having some problems with a couple of smallish doors between loading bay and reception. Problem is that MAC or ARC can't pass those doorways. Has anyone got a clue how this could be fixed? Should I try to adjust parameters in the "pathing_settings" entity or should I just make the doorways larger?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> 108 units high doorway was apparently too low for MACs and ARCs to pass. Increasing the doorway by 20 units fixed the problem. Also, console command "nav_debug" is your friend for anyone having similar pathing issues. :)
I got stuck in Biodome as Marine >< I had to wait to die to respawn. Another guy who was with me said he got stuck in the same place where I was stuck. Looking at the minimap. I got stuck in the top left over the Comm node, and a tiny bit the right.
Great map though, I can't wait to see this finished! I loved it ><!!
<!--quoteo(post=1961229:date=Aug 11 2012, 02:42 PM:name=PersianImm0rtal)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (PersianImm0rtal @ Aug 11 2012, 02:42 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1961229"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Is this map public on steam workshop Now? Or can I just see it because we are friends on steam?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> For now it's released for steam friends only. We will make it publicly available when vents and some crates have been added. Most of the creates will be temporary and replaced with something that makes more sense when the rooms have started to make some more shape. That being said, it should be fully playable already (meaning that all necessary entities are in place).
<!--quoteo(post=1961159:date=Aug 11 2012, 11:58 AM:name=CobraCommander)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (CobraCommander @ Aug 11 2012, 11:58 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1961159"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I got stuck in Biodome as Marine >< I had to wait to die to respawn. Another guy who was with me said he got stuck in the same place where I was stuck. Looking at the minimap. I got stuck in the top left over the Comm node, and a tiny bit the right.
Great map though, I can't wait to see this finished! I loved it ><!!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I tried but couldn't find the spot where you got stuck. Could you add a message to the position where you got stuck? To do that, just go to the position, open console, and type for example "annotate got stuck here". Thanks! :)
The first alpha version of ns2_plant was released yesterday to Steam Workshop. Work still continues to finish every room and some vents still need to be added. We had the map run on Archea's public server yesterday (which I sadly couldn't join, as the game just hung on the loading screen). From what I heard the feedback was quite positive, and the layout was deemed to be promising (2 relatively easy resource nodes, and 2 in the middle which the teams had to fight over). On the negative side, the hallways were still too open and lacking cover, especially the unfinished rooms and corridors, but also some of the more finished looking ones like Water Treatment. We will be addressing these issues in the upcoming releases, so I hope you will be subscribing to the map in SW. :) I'm considering to start updating the map weekly to get things rolling more smoothly.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I got stuck in Biodome as Marine >< I had to wait to die to respawn. Another guy who was with me said he got stuck in the same place where I was stuck. Looking at the minimap. I got stuck in the top left over the Comm node, and a tiny bit the right.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Thanks for reporting it! I was finally able to find the stuck problem. It's quite a strange position to get stuck (in the middle of stairs) but I will fix it for next release.
edit: for those who prefer, I will edit the first post to include a download link when I get home from work.
ScardyBobScardyBobJoin Date: 2009-11-25Member: 69528Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow
I like it, but there are a few things I'd like to see: - I know part of the issue is that it isn't done, but there is way too much open space in the map. Its basically like a kharaa shooting gallery. - The res situation is a bit rough. Neither side is likely to hold more than two RTs for most of the map (i.e. the base RT and the one to the left in research room and reception), since the majority of RTs are clustered in the highly contested mid part of the map. The map could benefit from a few more close RTs for each side. - It looks like you followed one of the mapping guideline layouts. While that's fine, UWE has mostly moved away from the tech node without res node model, since it makes relocates impossible. Adding an RT in biodome, airlock, and railway station would help this and the lack of res issue.
Comments
It's really looking great!
It's really looking great!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
We had a little testplay session, but I didn't get straight answers to questions. Mainly players thought that the map is maybe too big (even though it's a little smaller than ns2_summit)
After testplay we noticed that Lounge and Crew Quarters are way too big and they have to be made smaller (they are still placeholders). I think that if we make Lounge and Crew Quarters smaller, then we also have to make the whole map a little bit smaller, so that hallways between them don't grow too long and to keep the idea of two "close" RTs.
I should also add vents for skulks so that it would be easier to have real testplays on the map.
What test players liked about the map, were our already complete areas, like Cafe and Reseach Room. Biodome and Airlock hexagons were also regarded as good looking detail in game.
The next testplay release will be alpha2 and it will be again "invitation only" and after we decide which version is better, we will share it to open testplay.
<!--quoteo(post=1923288:date=Apr 8 2012, 11:00 PM:name=Varathar)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Varathar @ Apr 8 2012, 11:00 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1923288"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->After testplay we noticed that Lounge and Crew Quarters are way too big and they have to be made smaller (they are still placeholders). I think that if we make Lounge and Crew Quarters smaller, then we also have to make the whole map a little bit smaller, so that hallways between them don't grow too long and to keep the idea of two "close" RTs.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I agree with you that the Lounge and Crew Quarters are little bit too big. I would also argue that Railway Station is a little bit too big room too. But also the fact that they are only simple boxes at this moment makes them look bigger than they are when they're completed with props etc. So don't make them too small. I also agree that the hallways are too long. There are also some hallways that feel very artificial and useless. Especially the double corridor thing south from Airlock feels weird and the fact that Atrium has hallways on both sides of the room, essentially making it three rooms next to it.
The map essentially consists of 9 rooms that are laid out in square and then marine start and alien start on top and bottom of these rooms. Then there are 3 routes from each start to the adjacent rooms and 4 routes from the middle rooms to the northern and southern rooms.
Extra care needs to be taken care of the hallway length because there are four routes from the middle rooms to the northern and southern rooms. This means that it is highly unlikely that marines can have a player in each route in 6v6 game. With corridors being as long as they are now aliens could easily just wait for the marines to get further from base and then just use the route that doesn't contain any marines to rush their base without marines having any counter for this maneuver.
I like the 3-4-4-3 routes layout but it feels like there's huge amount of routes and that there will be lot of empty hallways in 6v6 setup. I have a feeling that 2-3-3-2 routes could work better, but I guess it's too late to make this kind of principal layout change anymore. We'll see how it works in the playtesting. Just make sure this is tested well!
I hate the introduction of natural expansion in NS2 because it is so imbalanced atleast with the current gameplay. It also makes tech point strategies very boring because both teams know in advance where the aliens will build their hive. Thus I would live to see a version of this map with tech points in Biodome, Atrium and Water Treatment. In the other hand the fact that rts are placed far away from the tech point give a little bit of strategic decisions to this map but not as much as three equally good tech points would. I am pretty sure aliens will always go for Research room RT, Lounge RT, Airlock Hive in this order. Maybe building Atrium and Water Treatment RTs before the hive depending on the map control and current NS2 game mechanics.
I also love the fact that Atrium and Biodome are connected but Atrium and Water Treatment are not connected to each other. This kind of separates the map in half. I hope there will not be any vents between Atrium and Water Treatment either.
You're having nice amount "uphills" and "downhills" on the corridors but i think there could be also more clever use of vertical space. All the entrances to each room seem to be at the same height level. There aren't any catwalks or stuff like that either. The map looks little bit like it was a lego construct built on floor if you get what i mean. There are good use of "hills" and stairs as I said but there could be something more creative too.
Also something to add next would be adding more stuff on the ceilings for skulks and lerks to hide and fly. Gratings, pillars, etc. You can look the new version of triad for some great inspiration on this aspect.
If all this was TL;DR
<ul><li>Shorter hallways</li><li>Couple of rooms could be smaller</li><li>Think about the techpoint placement once more</li><li>More vertical action</li><li>More routes and hiding places in the ceiling</li></ul>
All in all it looks great on the gameplay persepective! I can't wait to test this out. I'm really hoping the first public test release will be in couple of weeks so we could have a new map to test with the whole community.
Yeah, kind of. I've been working on making the map a little smaller and I'm half way there.
The reason why I have been so slow, is that I had to finish my degree work in month and I'm moving to a new apartment, which needs a little paint on it and other fixes.
Also my fiance and team exertus keep me busy.
So when the dust settles I will continue to make adjustments and after that me and perso are going to crank it.
Realistically, I doubt that the map will be ready before 1.0, but our goal is to have at least some sort of playable version ready by then. This of course depends on how lazy / busy we are going to be, and when ns2 hits 1.0.
The layout has gone through some resizing, as we moved the marine and alien sides a bit closer to the middle of the map (see Varathar's post). This in turn means that a great deal of the existing occlusion culling geometry has to be moved or remade from scratch. It means a lot of mechanical work, which is a tad annoying, but necessary to ensure good framerates.
I'll try get cranking on this so that I can have some new screenshots to post here by next weekend. I might also post an overview image where all the finished/unfinished areas are marked, to give a better idea how the map is progressing. Suffice to say, there's still lots of work to do.
relieved to finally have some more techy textures and props to work with,
perso
<img src="http://lahosken.san-francisco.ca.us/importable/gordon-gopher-soon.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
Soon! :)
I have planned to test this map in gathers and pcws, but sure we can give it to running on your servers too.
Anyway, really looking forward to it. Best looking custom map atm, imo :-)
<img src="http://plantdev.no-ip.org/images/plant/alpha2/ns2_plant_overview_08082012.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<img src="http://plantdev.no-ip.org/images/plant/alpha2/ns2_plant_nav_debug_08082012.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
108 units high doorway was apparently too low for MACs and ARCs to pass. Increasing the doorway by 20 units fixed the problem. Also, console command "nav_debug" is your friend for anyone having similar pathing issues. :)
Great map though, I can't wait to see this finished! I loved it ><!!
Now? Or can I just see it because we are friends on steam?
Now? Or can I just see it because we are friends on steam?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
For now it's released for steam friends only. We will make it publicly available when vents and some crates have been added. Most of the creates will be temporary and replaced with something that makes more sense when the rooms have started to make some more shape. That being said, it should be fully playable already (meaning that all necessary entities are in place).
Great map though, I can't wait to see this finished! I loved it ><!!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I tried but couldn't find the spot where you got stuck. Could you add a message to the position where you got stuck? To do that, just go to the position, open console, and type for example "annotate got stuck here". Thanks! :)
edit: fixed typo
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I got stuck in Biodome as Marine >< I had to wait to die to respawn. Another guy who was with me said he got stuck in the same place where I was stuck. Looking at the minimap. I got stuck in the top left over the Comm node, and a tiny bit the right.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Thanks for reporting it! I was finally able to find the stuck problem. It's quite a strange position to get stuck (in the middle of stairs) but I will fix it for next release.
edit: for those who prefer, I will edit the first post to include a download link when I get home from work.
- I know part of the issue is that it isn't done, but there is way too much open space in the map. Its basically like a kharaa shooting gallery.
- The res situation is a bit rough. Neither side is likely to hold more than two RTs for most of the map (i.e. the base RT and the one to the left in research room and reception), since the majority of RTs are clustered in the highly contested mid part of the map. The map could benefit from a few more close RTs for each side.
- It looks like you followed one of the mapping guideline layouts. While that's fine, UWE has mostly moved away from the tech node without res node model, since it makes relocates impossible. Adding an RT in biodome, airlock, and railway station would help this and the lack of res issue.