Onos has ups
Tig
Join Date: 2010-05-08 Member: 71674Members, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Silver
Join Date: 2010-05-08 Member: 71674Members, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Silver
<div class="IPBDescription">and various other balance issues</div>Before anyone gets upset, i understand these things aren't even in the game yet in any definitive form.
That being said...
The Onos can jump really high from a standstill! 3 wall panels 128 x 128. if you haven't played around in builder, that's 3 times the onos' height and like 4 tram weldable doors.
Is this so the onos can jump up onto platforms and perhaps time leaps at jetpackers?
Anyway, I can't wait to see the animation for this.
Speaking of jetpackers, i really don't see how they're going to be defeatable unless you give gorges web. With the current fade blink mechanics, a jetpacker will waste a fade in my opinion (remember, this is just speculation, i have no idea what the new jetpack will be) because:
1. you can't blink specific distance in open space. yes, i know that you can blink to a specific distance on the ground and against walls and ceilings, but i can't blink to a spot in the air where i think a jetpacker is heading (not like that sweet sweet nimble onos jump). this was one of the things that made fading vs. jetpacking a pretty level playing field in ns1: jetpacker > onos, onos > ha, ha > fade, jetpacker = fade (usually decided by skill + fight location), in ns2 its shaping up to be jetpacker > onos, onos = exo (depends on if devour returns), exo > fade, jetpacker > fade.
2. blinking to a jetpackers back is useless when they're in motion as they'll be out of range before you get a swipe off. now i base this off the poor fade hit reg in 159, so i'm sure this bound to change but currently if i blink to the back of a running marine, he will out range me before i can get the swipe off.
Let's say that this changes and fades are now able to get one swipe off before before the jetpacker gets to a safe distance. that's still a mighty amount of skill to be able to place that blink while being shot at and on the run.
So, my solution to this problem that may not even exist?
One of two things again (or both <- my preference):
1. Bring back the fade cannon. blinking range cannon fade seems on a level playing field with a flying minigun jetpacker imo.
2 Bring back gorge web.
actually, plz bring back gorge web anyway, it's awesome. take it one step further and do the gorge web grappling hook (it was a server mod i think).
easy to spreadsheet balance both of these: fade cannon energy cost/damage, gorge web energy cost/snare time.
ok, flame away.
That being said...
The Onos can jump really high from a standstill! 3 wall panels 128 x 128. if you haven't played around in builder, that's 3 times the onos' height and like 4 tram weldable doors.
Is this so the onos can jump up onto platforms and perhaps time leaps at jetpackers?
Anyway, I can't wait to see the animation for this.
Speaking of jetpackers, i really don't see how they're going to be defeatable unless you give gorges web. With the current fade blink mechanics, a jetpacker will waste a fade in my opinion (remember, this is just speculation, i have no idea what the new jetpack will be) because:
1. you can't blink specific distance in open space. yes, i know that you can blink to a specific distance on the ground and against walls and ceilings, but i can't blink to a spot in the air where i think a jetpacker is heading (not like that sweet sweet nimble onos jump). this was one of the things that made fading vs. jetpacking a pretty level playing field in ns1: jetpacker > onos, onos > ha, ha > fade, jetpacker = fade (usually decided by skill + fight location), in ns2 its shaping up to be jetpacker > onos, onos = exo (depends on if devour returns), exo > fade, jetpacker > fade.
2. blinking to a jetpackers back is useless when they're in motion as they'll be out of range before you get a swipe off. now i base this off the poor fade hit reg in 159, so i'm sure this bound to change but currently if i blink to the back of a running marine, he will out range me before i can get the swipe off.
Let's say that this changes and fades are now able to get one swipe off before before the jetpacker gets to a safe distance. that's still a mighty amount of skill to be able to place that blink while being shot at and on the run.
So, my solution to this problem that may not even exist?
One of two things again (or both <- my preference):
1. Bring back the fade cannon. blinking range cannon fade seems on a level playing field with a flying minigun jetpacker imo.
2 Bring back gorge web.
actually, plz bring back gorge web anyway, it's awesome. take it one step further and do the gorge web grappling hook (it was a server mod i think).
easy to spreadsheet balance both of these: fade cannon energy cost/damage, gorge web energy cost/snare time.
ok, flame away.
Comments
it wont take more than a few seconds for a minigun to tear up a lerk tho. but who knows, maybe you're right, maybe the lerk armor pen upgrade will own jetpackers.
The OP is commenting that if you use cheats to get an Onos in the current build, his jump is reeeeeally high. He's also speculating that the high jump is to take out jetpackers, since fade blink would have trouble killing jetpackers as it is now.
I hope developers take notice now before its to late. My ideas were either reducing the clicking, or giving the current ns2 fade two forms of blinks - keep the current one and add the ns1 blink to him as well.
acid cannon would be great but I rather they fixed blinking first.
gorge web: no idea why it was removed, it was an amazing ability. I do agree it does need to make return. I do want blabbers to make return as well :D
The another thing I didn't like about gorge its his view point, ns1 gorge view was perfect. (talking about seeing his open mouth, seeing his tongue)
current alien abilities aren't really made for late game play, once marines tech up they will wipe the floor with them. But aliens are strong in the early games.
i don't think a lerk will be able to beat a jetpacker with a minigun, no.
edit: i don't think a lerk should be able to beat a jetpacker with a minigun in a 1 v 1 fight without getting the element of surprise.
At current network performance? I can't see it, either. But if people could blink around and hit airborne people in NS1, jumping would be no problem. I can jump and melee targets in other FPS just fine.
I think it is probably a safe assumption that the existing movement speeds and jump height are all placeholder. I seriously doubt the onos will be out jumping a skulk etc.
@OP
I think it is probably a safe assumption that the existing movement speeds and jump height are all placeholder. I seriously doubt the onos will be out jumping a skulk etc.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
i kinda wanna see it, just for like a week.
edit: i don't think a lerk should be able to beat a jetpacker with a minigun in a 1 v 1 fight without getting the element of surprise.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<strike>The minigun is probably part of the exoskeleton...</strike>
Nm single minigun is available for a marine... Then the question is, will a jetty be able to get one, seems overpowered...
Gorge Web +1
Gorge Grapple +hook
Lurk bite seriously needs re-evaluated as an important weapon slot. a large number of the lurk players for ns1 preferred biting jet packers rather than spiking.
Gorge Web +1
Gorge Grapple +hook
Lurk bite seriously needs re-evaluated as an important weapon slot. a large number of the lurk players for ns1 preferred biting jet packers rather than spiking.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
i dont wanna lose spikes. maybe its a hive 3 ability for endgame.
Nm single minigun is available for a marine... Then the question is, will a jetty be able to get one, seems overpowered...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
don't see why not, jp + hmg was bread and butter of ns1.
As for jetpack. We haven't seen the jetpack. We have no idea how the jetpack will fly, or if it will even be able to fly at all. It's not like UWE sat down and said oh, well we've changed the Fade, and the Gorge, and the Heavy, and the HMG, and all the rest, but we are going to keep jetpack the same.
Perhaps we shoudl reserve discussion of Jetpack/Onos gameplay until there is actually Jetpack/Onos gameplay.
Fixed it for you :p
Heavy weapons nerfed jetpack agility considerably from NS 2.0 onwards , so jetpackers ended up relying on shotguns to kill hives mostly.
Miniguns are probably going to be unwieldy weapons , still useful counters to onos if the jetpacker can reach a high spot to defend a room - but then he'll be a sitting duck to lerks , fades and even skulks.
I believe lighter weapons - especially the rifle / grenade launcher - will be favored. No idea how the flamethrower will combine with jetpacks , though.
Hilariously, like a Vietnam F4 Phantom or medieval dragon.
i believe i safeguarded against this statement, buddeh.
Pitchforks and nerd rage should definitely current be put away. But theory crafting about future features is always nice.
Super jumping onoses sounds pretty interesting. NS1's landbound Onos versus NS1's jetpack was a hilarious illustration of the phrase "Hard Counter". Leaping onoses sounds cool just as a concept. Maybe they have super effective alien muscles or actually weigh just as much as a skulk? A gorilla sized animal leaping around as if it were on a trampoline is definitely unreal and alien.
Nm single minigun is available for a marine... Then the question is, will a jetty be able to get one, seems overpowered...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No, you were right the first time. Miniguns are only for the exos.
-cory
HMG ftw!
-cory<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
crazy. so it's either firebreathing dragon or navy bomber.
hehe. The point is ... although you say that you are aware it isn't even implemented yet, you try to draw conclusions from it that aim to change cool things that already exist. (Like current fade blink) If you really want to discuss this kind of stuff, start off a speculation of constructive kind and propose potential counters to imaginary Jetpacks <u>without</u> changing the things actually in. (Like you did with proposing Web)
Why? Because I`m absolutly sure UWE has an approriate counter to JP ready in mind (and just imagine ... it might not be the fade ;) ). It's not like they are doing this kind of work for years and notice at the end: Doh ... we forgot to implement a counter to JP ...
+1 for gorge web though ;)
Why? Because I`m absolutly sure UWE has an approriate counter to JP ready in mind (and just imagine ... it might not be the fade ;) ). It's not like they are doing this kind of work for years and notice at the end: Doh ... we forgot to implement a counter to JP ...
+1 for gorge web though ;)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
um... thanks for your input?
i don't need to be reprimanded for introducing a discussion about future troubles i foresee and lectured how to create threads on a forum. if you guys having something you'd like to add, add it, don't come in here and get on my back for posting something i was thinking about that hasn't been implemented into the game yet, when i'm fully aware of that fact and just wanted to discuss it anyway.
i'm sorry if you have a problem with me suggesting there's gonna be fail down the road when these things get put in, but it is your problem. you like the new fade blink. it's pretty and has cool effects, no doubt. but that doesn't mean a whole lot when its fade vs. jp, even if cory said the jp can't have a minigun. if you haven't thought that far ahead, then you're not trying to make this a better game during the development phase.
and that's all i'm trying to do. alpha test, beta test, publicize & play.