<!--quoteo(post=1813452:date=Dec 4 2010, 06:49 PM:name=Asraniel)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Asraniel @ Dec 4 2010, 06:49 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1813452"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->fades can be taken down quite easely with shotguns. at least if there is more than one marine. 3 good hits and the fade is gone.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Then I would argue that you fought against a horrible Fade, and without any alien support. A fade supported by a lerker is unstoppable without a flame thrower, well a GOOD Fade. You do realize he can blink AWAY from your shotguns in a split second right, like the GOOD Fades do, and heal, rinse and repeat.
Kouji_SanSr. Hινε UÏкεεÏεг - EUPT DeputyThe NetherlandsJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
I can track Fade pretty well and also anticipate their respawn blink. But I've had my sights on them only to fire my shells into thin air due to the blink. The blink is terrifying in good hands :D
I must agree that the Flamethrower is in the moment more like a "hurr durr i'll rush the game alone and nothing can stop me, breakdancing all my way up to the hive in an 360 degree flamefestival"
Flamethrower is the ultimate rambo weapon at the moment.
I really like the Idea Runteh described. The Flamethrower should be more like a Tool and Assault Weapon. It has no negatives right now and should be powerful when you're in group. Slow Move for a Weapon is kinda lame, so it should have a other disadvantage. Forced FF can encourage teamkilling and does not make the thing more fun, but if the weapon feels more heavy or it needs 1-2 seconds to charge up and fire it could be better. It must be more of a support Weapon and when it's on it should kill <u>everything</u>, but it should be hard to get it on.
I also like the Idea that the Lerk spores could explode with the Flamethrower. I don't like the gastank on back idea because it would mean suicide for the attacking skulk, too. Though this can be a cool patriotic feature hehe.
The best way to regulate flamethrower advantage is to increase it's resource cost to something like 500, instead of the 50 it is now.
This means that while being a very very powerful weapon, you wont be able to just pick one up every time you spawn and run around burning anything recklessly.
And alternative and probably better balanced option is to make it cost carbon instead of plasma, making it important for the team to decide who gets it and when it is given out. This would also discourage rushing into a hostile area with it because when a flamethrower costs the whole team resources it makes it a serious blow when the guy using it gets killed.
Once servers run more stable and people can actually hit moving aliens consistently (single digit tick rate makes that kinda hard) we will most likely see a nerf to flamethrowers or a buff to alien ability to counter it.
I really hate how you guys want to balance things - no offense. But all the ideas you come up with have no satisfying cinematic or real world feel to them. It is an RTS style of balance (boring maths), but there is actually only one person in the game who really notices this with regards to cost and such like.
What exactly is wrong with the flame thrower if it was made more satisfying to use, more powerful, more cinematic ... but took time to change weapons, made turning slow and movement slow WHEN firing.
The coolness of seing a marine walk/strutting towards a hive room entrance firing a huge amount of fire inside that obscures his vision (cool hot air shader) and kills everything in front of him is really cool.
But if he is 100% vulnerable from behind (maybe he explodes shortly after death) and it is expensive - why not.
It would be 200% more interesting than seeing a marine doing 360s in the hive room - and actually give the weapon some character. It would also encourage team work to defend your team mate
If you think about it - weapons are to marines, as classes are to aliens. This makes the alien team so interesting - the marine team just needs a lot more focus on weapon character and balance in this respect.
You don't see skulks saying 'owww noes, I can't fly or fire spores!!'. But they sure as hell do have character, and because of that you love each one for it's uniqueness and how they work as a team.
I think this just needs to translate more over to the marines.
Kouji_SanSr. Hινε UÏкεεÏεг - EUPT DeputyThe NetherlandsJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
edited December 2010
TF2 has it down bascialy with their classes and the pro's and cons/counters. something like that should be in NS2. Currently we have a few in there though
Shotty, no melee bash and has short range burst damage.
LMG, has melee bash but lack the burst damage, better on long range, but Crags negate it. Get afew of them together firing in a general direction and they become more poweful.
LMG+GrenadeLauncher, lacks melee bash and the grenades need to be handles with care, but when used correctly are very effective. Still low DPS from the rifle...
They seem nice and balanced with pro's and cons and then there is the flamer in it's current state:
Flamer, the current buggy blind makes it invulnerable from any flame-licked alien player attacks. Good damage vs aliens, but that is probably open to change as it will be used for removal of DI... What is could use is this:
Flamer, Can't use jetpacks due to it's tank on the back (needs to be modeled :P) Slowing you down when firing and if you do 360's spamming fire all over the place it will damage you as well. From behind the user is an easy target due to slower turning speed. Walking around with a Flamer makes you somewhat sluggish (mousesmoothing applied as well perhaps so you could overshoot your target). Go in NS2 now, boot up a map and use "cheats 1" then "j2" and type in "onos". Now hope you spawn above ground and you will see this slowbigsluggisch feeling I'm talking about with the invisible Onos. It also needs a narrower field of fire, more like a stream. Making it DEADLY when approached from the front
Or simply use the Pyro Flamer, not as epic but still works with pro's and cons...
Weapon need to be bought right? I always have enough credits to buy whatever I want when I want. What if weapons (especially the flamethrower) get much more expensive, so you can't keep buying them all the time when you die.
On a more serious note, ft will be less of an issue once they fix the lag. Frankly, I research it because its the only marine weapon still effective when fps drops into single digits. Once the lag is fixed, rifles and shotguns will be more useful and, therefore, ft will not need to be researched as often.
the biggest problem for me at the momment is how it behaves.
right now it a flaming sword of doom. flames that a fired previously should keep there direction and should lose mommentum. so you would have to lead targets as you fire at them.
right now it all twitch
another possible counter is that it can be dangerous to the user and those around. so if an alien gets a bitet off on one it engulfs the user in flames and anyone near by
I just won a match of 3 marines versus me and one other alien on Rocktown.
We won.
It was tricky, but I managed to set up a quick blockade with whips and crags on the east side and then me as a lerk and him as a fade protected the west side and the marines never got a second CC.
The fact that I managed to set up 4 hives and 4 harvesters within 5 minutes while they were still building their first base up is another serious balance issue. I think what the devs were going for with this is that marines have to play defence and aliens play offence, and it would be a nicely balanced game if a) most of the marine teams didn't rush off and derp around rather then digging in and defending and acquiring that second base as fast as possible, and b) if the marine team wasn't an unstoppable infinite rape machine the second they unlock flamethrowers.
lerks have long range 2 shot snipe... fades can 1 hit marines... and you cry about marines being OP? fades can still easily kill flamethrowers now, and lerks need to just stay back and spike. If your a skulk then you deserve to die. Ive won many games as aliens against full tech marines, its not hard.
Fades can take down flamethrowers? Really? How do you manage that when you cant get within 15 meters of them without being completely blinded and unable to tell where they are? You need to be right in front of them in order to land that hit and it only takes 5 seconds to die.
As for lerks, with the map design the way it current is there is almost no place a lerk can be shooting at a marine without being in flamethrower range. If I remember correctly the range of the flamethrower is almost exactly the distance between the floor and the ceiling of Tram marine start.
1.adding cooldown on the flamethrower, only short bursts 2.lower the amount of fuel 3. reduced damage to aliens 4. increased damage to infestation and alien buildings
<!--quoteo(post=1814086:date=Dec 7 2010, 10:49 AM:name=######beard the Pirate)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (######beard the Pirate @ Dec 7 2010, 10:49 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1814086"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Fades can take down flamethrowers? Really? How do you manage that when you cant get within 15 meters of them without being completely blinded and unable to tell where they are? You need to be right in front of them in order to land that hit and it only takes 5 seconds to die.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Easily,
People should stop moaning about damage / clipsize / whatever , Fade can take out flamethrower/s out, after over blinding flame and "ghost" players are adjusted fade is going to be impossible to kill and the moaning continues.
It is supposed to kill the very first tier 1 unit (skulk/lerk) easily because it is the very last tier weapon.
I'm with the "give flamethrowers inertia" idea. The problem is the flamethrower's more like a light saber currently. It should take time for a certain gob of fuel reachers acertain distance.
If that time's less then the speed at which a skulk runs at, skulks suddenly have alot more survivablility. Even if you turn really really fast, it takes time for the flames to reach the skulk, at which point the smart skulk runs away. The smart marine will then wait for the skulk to line up instead of wasting ammo.
And it'll still be a great weapon against structures, since those don't move. Moving targets will be a bit tricker, but hey, we've got bullits for those.
<!--quoteo(post=1814189:date=Dec 7 2010, 02:52 PM:name=TSS)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TSS @ Dec 7 2010, 02:52 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1814189"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'm with the "give flamethrowers inertia" idea. The problem is the flamethrower's more like a light saber currently. It should take time for a certain gob of fuel reachers acertain distance.
If that time's less then the speed at which a skulk runs at, skulks suddenly have alot more survivablility. Even if you turn really really fast, it takes time for the flames to reach the skulk, at which point the smart skulk runs away. The smart marine will then wait for the skulk to line up instead of wasting ammo.
And it'll still be a great weapon against structures, since those don't move. Moving targets will be a bit tricker, but hey, we've got bullits for those.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
From the looks of things <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B0zQ18z2zPA" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B0zQ18z2zPA</a> the fire light saber in ns2 is close enough to correct behavior [not to mention the fact that a more advanced flamethrower implementation could result in lag/performance-hit] (remember we're in close quarters therefore the linger affect would be insignificant at these distances... i.e. watch the video 0:49+ and observe how fast the flame reacts to aim changes). If anything we should increase the overall surface area of the fire stream based on distance from the user + add smoke (and also add smoke to burning lifeforms and structures).
Skulks should be very easy to kill with higher-tier marine weapons. Otherwise if the skulks get buffed then their's no point in going fade/lerk because the "free" tier-1 skulk lifeform would be sufficient which means the skulk can stockpile his res until onos becomes available, and then just do endless onos rushes...
The last thing you want is marine end game dominated by very low skill weapons like GL's and FT's. The game would get progressively less fun for marines as time went on with items doing the work for you.
NS1 balance had it right with the GL for suppression and clearance, albeit a pretty boring weapon to use while the HMG was for hard killing and more rewarding to good aim.
If you had to have a 3rd end tier weapon I would think something like a quake 3 railgun would be good. Makes a nice scale, GL <-> HMG <-> RG. Best suppression/pushing with low skill req on the GL end to highest per shot alien killing power and toughest aim req's on the top end.
I'm beginning to think the problem is in the amount of fuel.
Sure the flamethrower should toast a skulk.
But 5....10 skulks in a row And the user isn't even using controlled bursts. It is just continually on.
Come to think about it ...have I ever run out of fuel when I had one. And I did run around with reckless abandon setting fire to everything. You just can't help it. Yeah I think we either won...or I stupidly died.
I don't think the flamethrower is powerful enough. And should damage all marines and marine structures, all the time. Even if there's a toggle for FF and it's off. That powerful.
just reduce the amount of fuel, and let it drain more fuel. This way it won't be spammed so much. But right now you can kill 3-4 people just spamming it. So either reduce damage or the fuel.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->right now it a flaming sword of doom. flames that a fired previously should keep there direction and should lose mommentum. so you would have to lead targets as you fire at them.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
They have stated that this will happen. It's just currently not a top priority with all the other fixes that need to be implemented first.
I agree and disagree with a lot of the points being made. In some scenarios I can see why the flame thrower needs to be nerfed a bit, in others I can see the weakening of the flame thrower to be crippling to the marines.
But currently it's still early BETA. A lot of other game play features are not implemented into the game yet. For instance, Aliens don't have their tier 2 and 3 attacks yet. They also don't have the Onos yet. I can only imagine how fearful he will be against flame throwers. Keep in mind to that Marines do not have Heavy Armors yet. Honestly I think when all those new features are in the game you will see less flame throwers.
Thinking ahead to everything that will be added into the game even right now the flame thrower is still kind of that Support weapon that is useful for clearing out structures. It currently does so little damage to the hive that just sitting there setting the hive on fire is wasteful of a marine with a flame thrower. You run out of fuel before you've done 30% damage to the hive.
I've experienced both scenarios where there is a lone marine in the alien hive and there was not much skulks could do about it. But I've also been the one to sneak around the marine with the FT and take him out to. Just blind rushing the marine won't get you anywhere. Get up on the ceiling he can't get you there. If he takes his pistol out this is your shot, drop down and take him out. He has to redraw the FT again which will take a couple seconds before he can use it. I've also quietly snuck around behind him and taken him out. Also stated in a previous post the FT doesn't do a heck of a lot of damage to the fade. At least I can always take a FT out as a fade before I retreat to our crag farm.
Is the FT currently OP to tier 1 aliens. Yes. But again they don't have their Tier 2 and 3 attacks yet and they are missing the Onos still. So everything that is currently in game is allowing for the FT to be over powered. Give them time to get everything working.
I also do agree though. Maybe instead of permenatelly limiting the FT's to 2 on a team at any given time. Allow the server operator to designate if the team is allowed 2, 3 or unlimited. Much like the AWP Sniper Rifle in Counter-Strike. This would keep everyone happy. Those who love the FT and want to do nothing in game but use it. Those who are 50/50 about it. And of course those who loath it with every essence that is them. It'll help people pick favorite servers to and allow for stronger server communities to be built with like minded gamers.
<!--quoteo(post=1813433:date=Dec 4 2010, 11:01 PM:name=yenningComity)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (yenningComity @ Dec 4 2010, 11:01 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1813433"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->GL is pretty worthless right now. It seems like it has gone from one extreme to the other with this patch.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> <!--quoteo(post=1813416:date=Dec 4 2010, 09:56 PM:name=FocusedWolf)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (FocusedWolf @ Dec 4 2010, 09:56 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1813416"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The marines in the game i commed yesterday hated the new gl. And after a full evaluation i see <u>NO</u> reason at all for researching it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is the problem with public feedback. It's the shotgun-thing all over again.
Alien tier 1 tech is much more powerful than marine tier 1, aliens can rapidly build structures without player interaction and without regard for whether the power node is on or off; alien late joiners spawn almost instantly, on marines usually only 1 or 2 marines start alive and the rest have to wait for the IP. That first 10 minutes where marines struggle to get even a single expansion and slowly teching up to grenades and FT while keeping the aliens at bay is where all the interesting gameplay currently lives.
After the first 10 minutes the game is almost certainly decided. If marines have the tech aliens can win only if marines haven't established some redundant IPs and armories and have no one guarding spawn. If marines haven't established the tech marines can only win if aliens suffer from a rash of lame quitters or something.
If you nerf flame thrower without changing anything else there is no game, marines will get squashed every game, it's just a matter of time.
Comments
Then I would argue that you fought against a horrible Fade, and without any alien support. A fade supported by a lerker is unstoppable without a flame thrower, well a GOOD Fade. You do realize he can blink AWAY from your shotguns in a split second right, like the GOOD Fades do, and heal, rinse and repeat.
Slow rate of turn? You trying to make a flametank or something as retarded? It is goddamn slow pace already we dont need more things to gimp it.
Flamethrower is the ultimate rambo weapon at the moment.
I really like the Idea Runteh described.
The Flamethrower should be more like a Tool and Assault Weapon. It has no negatives right now and should be powerful when you're in group.
Slow Move for a Weapon is kinda lame, so it should have a other disadvantage. Forced FF can encourage teamkilling and does not make the thing more fun, but if the weapon feels more heavy or it needs 1-2 seconds to charge up and fire it could be better. It must be more of a support Weapon and when it's on it should kill <u>everything</u>, but it should be hard to get it on.
I also like the Idea that the Lerk spores could explode with the Flamethrower. I don't like the gastank on back idea because it would mean suicide for the attacking skulk, too. Though this can be a cool patriotic feature hehe.
This means that while being a very very powerful weapon, you wont be able to just pick one up every time you spawn and run around burning anything recklessly.
And alternative and probably better balanced option is to make it cost carbon instead of plasma, making it important for the team to decide who gets it and when it is given out. This would also discourage rushing into a hostile area with it because when a flamethrower costs the whole team resources it makes it a serious blow when the guy using it gets killed.
That's my two cents.
What exactly is wrong with the flame thrower if it was made more satisfying to use, more powerful, more cinematic ... but took time to change weapons, made turning slow and movement slow WHEN firing.
The coolness of seing a marine walk/strutting towards a hive room entrance firing a huge amount of fire inside that obscures his vision (cool hot air shader) and kills everything in front of him is really cool.
But if he is 100% vulnerable from behind (maybe he explodes shortly after death) and it is expensive - why not.
It would be 200% more interesting than seeing a marine doing 360s in the hive room - and actually give the weapon some character. It would also encourage team work to defend your team mate
If you think about it - weapons are to marines, as classes are to aliens. This makes the alien team so interesting - the marine team just needs a lot more focus on weapon character and balance in this respect.
You don't see skulks saying 'owww noes, I can't fly or fire spores!!'. But they sure as hell do have character, and because of that you love each one for it's uniqueness and how they work as a team.
I think this just needs to translate more over to the marines.
Shotty, no melee bash and has short range burst damage.
LMG, has melee bash but lack the burst damage, better on long range, but Crags negate it. Get afew of them together firing in a general direction and they become more poweful.
LMG+GrenadeLauncher, lacks melee bash and the grenades need to be handles with care, but when used correctly are very effective. Still low DPS from the rifle...
They seem nice and balanced with pro's and cons and then there is the flamer in it's current state:
Flamer, the current buggy blind makes it invulnerable from any flame-licked alien player attacks. Good damage vs aliens, but that is probably open to change as it will be used for removal of DI... What is could use is this:
Flamer, Can't use jetpacks due to it's tank on the back (needs to be modeled :P) Slowing you down when firing and if you do 360's spamming fire all over the place it will damage you as well. From behind the user is an easy target due to slower turning speed. Walking around with a Flamer makes you somewhat sluggish (mousesmoothing applied as well perhaps so you could overshoot your target). Go in NS2 now, boot up a map and use "cheats 1" then "j2" and type in "onos". Now hope you spawn above ground and you will see this slowbigsluggisch feeling I'm talking about with the invisible Onos. It also needs a narrower field of fire, more like a stream. Making it DEADLY when approached from the front
Or simply use the Pyro Flamer, not as epic but still works with pro's and cons...
As long as I can still do this, I'm happy :)
On a more serious note, ft will be less of an issue once they fix the lag. Frankly, I research it because its the only marine weapon still effective when fps drops into single digits. Once the lag is fixed, rifles and shotguns will be more useful and, therefore, ft will not need to be researched as often.
right now it a flaming sword of doom. flames that a fired previously should keep there direction and should lose mommentum. so you would have to lead targets as you fire at them.
right now it all twitch
another possible counter is that it can be dangerous to the user and those around. so if an alien gets a bitet off on one it engulfs the user in flames and anyone near by
We won.
It was tricky, but I managed to set up a quick blockade with whips and crags on the east side and then me as a lerk and him as a fade protected the west side and the marines never got a second CC.
The fact that I managed to set up 4 hives and 4 harvesters within 5 minutes while they were still building their first base up is another serious balance issue. I think what the devs were going for with this is that marines have to play defence and aliens play offence, and it would be a nicely balanced game if a) most of the marine teams didn't rush off and derp around rather then digging in and defending and acquiring that second base as fast as possible, and b) if the marine team wasn't an unstoppable infinite rape machine the second they unlock flamethrowers.
As for lerks, with the map design the way it current is there is almost no place a lerk can be shooting at a marine without being in flamethrower range. If I remember correctly the range of the flamethrower is almost exactly the distance between the floor and the ceiling of Tram marine start.
1.adding cooldown on the flamethrower, only short bursts
2.lower the amount of fuel
3. reduced damage to aliens
4. increased damage to infestation and alien buildings
Easily,
People should stop moaning about damage / clipsize / whatever , Fade can take out flamethrower/s out, after over blinding flame and "ghost" players are adjusted fade is going to be impossible to kill and the moaning continues.
It is supposed to kill the very first tier 1 unit (skulk/lerk) easily because it is the very last tier weapon.
If that time's less then the speed at which a skulk runs at, skulks suddenly have alot more survivablility. Even if you turn really really fast, it takes time for the flames to reach the skulk, at which point the smart skulk runs away. The smart marine will then wait for the skulk to line up instead of wasting ammo.
And it'll still be a great weapon against structures, since those don't move. Moving targets will be a bit tricker, but hey, we've got bullits for those.
If that time's less then the speed at which a skulk runs at, skulks suddenly have alot more survivablility. Even if you turn really really fast, it takes time for the flames to reach the skulk, at which point the smart skulk runs away. The smart marine will then wait for the skulk to line up instead of wasting ammo.
And it'll still be a great weapon against structures, since those don't move. Moving targets will be a bit tricker, but hey, we've got bullits for those.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
From the looks of things <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B0zQ18z2zPA" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B0zQ18z2zPA</a> the fire light saber in ns2 is close enough to correct behavior [not to mention the fact that a more advanced flamethrower implementation could result in lag/performance-hit] (remember we're in close quarters therefore the linger affect would be insignificant at these distances... i.e. watch the video 0:49+ and observe how fast the flame reacts to aim changes). If anything we should increase the overall surface area of the fire stream based on distance from the user + add smoke (and also add smoke to burning lifeforms and structures).
Skulks should be very easy to kill with higher-tier marine weapons. Otherwise if the skulks get buffed then their's no point in going fade/lerk because the "free" tier-1 skulk lifeform would be sufficient which means the skulk can stockpile his res until onos becomes available, and then just do endless onos rushes...
The last thing you want is marine end game dominated by very low skill weapons like GL's and FT's. The game would get progressively less fun for marines as time went on with items doing the work for you.
NS1 balance had it right with the GL for suppression and clearance, albeit a pretty boring weapon to use while the HMG was for hard killing and more rewarding to good aim.
If you had to have a 3rd end tier weapon I would think something like a quake 3 railgun would be good. Makes a nice scale, GL <-> HMG <-> RG. Best suppression/pushing with low skill req on the GL end to highest per shot alien killing power and toughest aim req's on the top end.
Sure the flamethrower should toast a skulk.
But 5....10 skulks in a row
And the user isn't even using controlled bursts.
It is just continually on.
Come to think about it ...have I ever run out of fuel when I had one.
And I did run around with reckless abandon setting fire to everything.
You just can't help it.
Yeah I think we either won...or I stupidly died.
They have stated that this will happen. It's just currently not a top priority with all the other fixes that need to be implemented first.
I agree and disagree with a lot of the points being made. In some scenarios I can see why the flame thrower needs to be nerfed a bit, in others I can see the weakening of the flame thrower to be crippling to the marines.
But currently it's still early BETA. A lot of other game play features are not implemented into the game yet. For instance, Aliens don't have their tier 2 and 3 attacks yet. They also don't have the Onos yet. I can only imagine how fearful he will be against flame throwers. Keep in mind to that Marines do not have Heavy Armors yet. Honestly I think when all those new features are in the game you will see less flame throwers.
Thinking ahead to everything that will be added into the game even right now the flame thrower is still kind of that Support weapon that is useful for clearing out structures. It currently does so little damage to the hive that just sitting there setting the hive on fire is wasteful of a marine with a flame thrower. You run out of fuel before you've done 30% damage to the hive.
I've experienced both scenarios where there is a lone marine in the alien hive and there was not much skulks could do about it. But I've also been the one to sneak around the marine with the FT and take him out to. Just blind rushing the marine won't get you anywhere. Get up on the ceiling he can't get you there. If he takes his pistol out this is your shot, drop down and take him out. He has to redraw the FT again which will take a couple seconds before he can use it. I've also quietly snuck around behind him and taken him out. Also stated in a previous post the FT doesn't do a heck of a lot of damage to the fade. At least I can always take a FT out as a fade before I retreat to our crag farm.
Is the FT currently OP to tier 1 aliens. Yes. But again they don't have their Tier 2 and 3 attacks yet and they are missing the Onos still. So everything that is currently in game is allowing for the FT to be over powered. Give them time to get everything working.
I also do agree though. Maybe instead of permenatelly limiting the FT's to 2 on a team at any given time. Allow the server operator to designate if the team is allowed 2, 3 or unlimited. Much like the AWP Sniper Rifle in Counter-Strike. This would keep everyone happy. Those who love the FT and want to do nothing in game but use it. Those who are 50/50 about it. And of course those who loath it with every essence that is them. It'll help people pick favorite servers to and allow for stronger server communities to be built with like minded gamers.
<!--quoteo(post=1813416:date=Dec 4 2010, 09:56 PM:name=FocusedWolf)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (FocusedWolf @ Dec 4 2010, 09:56 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1813416"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The marines in the game i commed yesterday hated the new gl. And after a full evaluation i see <u>NO</u> reason at all for researching it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is the problem with public feedback.
It's the shotgun-thing all over again.
After the first 10 minutes the game is almost certainly decided. If marines have the tech aliens can win only if marines haven't established some redundant IPs and armories and have no one guarding spawn. If marines haven't established the tech marines can only win if aliens suffer from a rash of lame quitters or something.
If you nerf flame thrower without changing anything else there is no game, marines will get squashed every game, it's just a matter of time.