Dynamic Lighting LOD Woes

WhiteZero

<div class="IPBDescription">Where are my shadows? *POP* Oh, there they are...</div>I made a little video to highlight my concern:
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tsnTYgXCRYA&fmt=37" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tsnTYgXCRYA&fmt=37</a>

Dynamic lighting fade needs some work. It is far too pop-in and seems to occur way too close to the player.

I know this is not something you worry about too much in the heat-of-battle and right now this should be a low priority until after some optimization. But it's certainly something to keep in mind.

aeroripper

This has been a problem since the engine test. They mentioned that it'll be tweaked quite a while ago but I imagine they're higher priority things to fix for now.

SgtBarlow

Mappers have control over shadow render distance for each and every light.

Typhon

I wonder if it might look better if instead of lights being rendered all the time and shadows 'popping in' that both lights and shadows shared the same draw distance. This way all rooms are dark until you approach them, at which point they light up with the appropriate shadows.

Kouji_San

I've had one light in my vent set to a fade off 0.05. Which makes it fade out nicely, but is very expensive. For vents it works, but for large areas with more of these light Spark will assassinate you computer currently :P

I'm more concerned by the fact that turning shadows on or off will have a very different approach to the game, it is easier to play without shadows, due to less clutter or mesmerizing effects, making aiming at stuff much easier... So I fear everyone will turn them off, even if their computer can easily handle it.

Think of NS gamma tampering, dark areas for your average newbie or pubber who are left in the dark (pun intended :P) as to why those godlike adversaries are able to see them in their hidy-shadow-hole

SgtBarlow

It is possible to minimize the differances between shadows on and shadows off where they matter most in strategy, Something i have been doing. so the only noticable shadow removel left is those that are purely visual feature shadowns that dont play as an advantegeous role.

Chris0132

<!--quoteo(post=1814369:date=Dec 8 2010, 04:54 PM:name=SgtBarlow)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SgtBarlow @ Dec 8 2010, 04:54 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1814369"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Mappers have control over shadow render distance for each and every light.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Yes, although does that also affect transition distance?

As in will it fade in slower for some lights, at the moment it kind of pops, might be better having a longer transiton distance.

Dictator93

Any chance at making this render distance also a client side option? My beefy computer does not happen to mind the shadow render distance to be honest. It would be nice to see NS2 look constantly shadowed instead of only within 15 to 20 feet.

Barlow? :D

Mr. Epic

<!--quoteo(post=1814429:date=Dec 8 2010, 05:39 PM:name=Dictator93)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dictator93 @ Dec 8 2010, 05:39 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1814429"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Any chance at making this render distance also a client side option? My beefy computer does not happen to mind the shadow render distance to be honest. It would be nice to see NS2 look constantly shadowed instead of only within 15 to 20 feet.

Barlow? :D<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It would ruin the look the mappers worked hard to achieve but it is an interesting concept, it could let users with bad computers keep *some* shadows rather than turning them all off. A slider with a global offset of a useful range or a % multiplier of the light distances would be a cool feature, as would the ability to set the shadow resolution. Because you could run into problems with excessive shadows going beyond room boundaries (or whatever the mapper already dealt with) this isn't one you could really increase on the fly without artifacts. Reducing it, however, makes more sense.

WhiteZero

I'd like to assume shadowing will be better optimized at some point, along with the rest of the graphics, and we can have a better distance set for them.

countbasie

Question: Is it not possible to lock the console command for turning shadows off in the final game? I mean, the chances should be the same for everyone...and shadows are a huge gameplay element. Turning them off is cheating.

IeptBarakat

<!--quoteo(post=1814900:date=Dec 10 2010, 07:37 PM:name=countbasie)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (countbasie @ Dec 10 2010, 07:37 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1814900"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Question: Is it not possible to lock the console command for turning shadows off in the final game? I mean, the chances should be the same for everyone...and shadows are a huge gameplay element. Turning them off is cheating.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Yeah, something like this could be as bad as the sunglasses at night gameplay of ns1.

Thaldarin

<!--quoteo(post=1814390:date=Dec 8 2010, 07:07 PM:name=Chris0132)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Chris0132 @ Dec 8 2010, 07:07 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1814390"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Yes, although does that also affect transition distance?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->


Yes. You can use the distance the light spreads to generate harsher or lighter shadows. If the light has a radius of 500 and you're standing at 750, you won't see it until you hit 500.

ASnogarD

<!--quoteo(post=1814900:date=Dec 11 2010, 12:37 AM:name=countbasie)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (countbasie @ Dec 11 2010, 12:37 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1814900"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Question: Is it not possible to lock the console command for turning shadows off in the final game? I mean, the chances should be the same for everyone...and shadows are a huge gameplay element. Turning them off is cheating.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

.. or remove them for all, because at the end of the day if you have an option to remove shadows and see into dark corners why enable them and handicap yourself.
( I prefer atmospher over advantages myself but not everyone will ).

countbasie

Oh lol, I think I got misunderstood. Bad english, sorry.

I mean that the devs should not allow anyone to disable shadows. Because I don't like the advantages you can get by improving your cfg.

I want the whole atmosphere without having a disadvantage. It does not make sense to hide in a shadow when others don't have shadows.

That's what I wanted to say ;)

IeptBarakat

In the long list of stuff to do on the progress page it had something along the lines of disabling the ability to remove shadows so don't worry on it.

countbasie

Cool. Thx.

WhiteZero

<!--quoteo(post=1814930:date=Dec 10 2010, 10:05 PM:name=IeptBarakat)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (IeptBarakat @ Dec 10 2010, 10:05 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1814930"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->In the long list of stuff to do on the progress page it had something along the lines of disabling the ability to remove shadows so don't worry on it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Removing the console command to disable shadows will prevent the easy way of turning them off.
But Spark is a fledgling engine, and is sure to have plenty of security holes in it to allow hackers to exploit it.

Thaldarin

<!--quoteo(post=1815130:date=Dec 11 2010, 07:12 PM:name=WhiteZero)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (WhiteZero @ Dec 11 2010, 07:12 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1815130"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->But Spark is a fledgling engine, and is sure to have plenty of security holes in it to allow hackers to exploit it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

The main of it is LUA. The principle design is to hack it.