Fade Blink - Resolving Disorientation
Shockeh
If a packet drops on the web and nobody's near to see it... Join Date: 2002-11-19 Member: 9336NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Constellation
If a packet drops on the web and nobody's near to see it... Join Date: 2002-11-19 Member: 9336NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Constellation
<div class="IPBDescription">(Yes, it's an old idea)</div>So, whilst we now have 'The Blink We Always Wanted But Never Got' from NS, we still have the issue that, much like skulk view orientation, whilst the Fade as a critter might be able to handle the disorientation caused by shifting instantaneously from point to point, players behind monitors & using computers cannot quite so easily. Compound this with being shot at, and you can get Fades merrily crashing into walls because the exit is now over <i>there</i>, rather than over <i>here</i>.
<b>Suggestion</b>:
Rework how Blink works just for the point of view of the Fade player.
<b>Proposal</b>:
Fade player starts blink, the screen overlays with a similar effect to how it looks to everyone else when he blinks and is immediately rendered <i>fast</i>, invisible, invincible and able to clip through players and objects easily (not geometry). As he can still see the game world, he can choose his facing, and retain some level of understanding on where enemy players will be in relation to his exit point. When he lets go of blink / bar runs out / timer (delete to taste) the overlay comes off, and his model reappears into existance exactly as now.
<b>Result</b>:
From the Marine point of view, nothing whatsoever has changed. The Fade still appears to teleport from place to place, with perhaps half a second longer between appearances as the Fade player will need to move. For the Fade player, he can more easily control exactly where he ends up, and control his facing freely to take advantage of the chaos this causes, such as blocking the view behind marines, etc, exactly like the Fade reveal trailer.
This has an added potential twist in combat, as a Fade can use this to quickly close on Marine players, or even use it as a very temporary 'cloak' when ambushing rather than assaulting, by simply blinking, not moving at all as the Marines come past, then reappearing behind them. Net impact might be to open up more 'varieties' of Fade play, with the ambush concept Fade being a viable alternative or complement to more 'assault' orientated Fades.
<b>Suggestion</b>:
Rework how Blink works just for the point of view of the Fade player.
<b>Proposal</b>:
Fade player starts blink, the screen overlays with a similar effect to how it looks to everyone else when he blinks and is immediately rendered <i>fast</i>, invisible, invincible and able to clip through players and objects easily (not geometry). As he can still see the game world, he can choose his facing, and retain some level of understanding on where enemy players will be in relation to his exit point. When he lets go of blink / bar runs out / timer (delete to taste) the overlay comes off, and his model reappears into existance exactly as now.
<b>Result</b>:
From the Marine point of view, nothing whatsoever has changed. The Fade still appears to teleport from place to place, with perhaps half a second longer between appearances as the Fade player will need to move. For the Fade player, he can more easily control exactly where he ends up, and control his facing freely to take advantage of the chaos this causes, such as blocking the view behind marines, etc, exactly like the Fade reveal trailer.
This has an added potential twist in combat, as a Fade can use this to quickly close on Marine players, or even use it as a very temporary 'cloak' when ambushing rather than assaulting, by simply blinking, not moving at all as the Marines come past, then reappearing behind them. Net impact might be to open up more 'varieties' of Fade play, with the ambush concept Fade being a viable alternative or complement to more 'assault' orientated Fades.
Comments
EDIT: But it does sound totally badass and cool.
This gives much more freedom to the fade player.
There are also a lot of numbers to tweak to balance this out.
Fade shouldn't be affected by structures and alien commander spells during blink though (e.g. blinking around a while getting healed).
Problem with that is that at high levels this gives the fade roughly enough time for one swipe and escape blink...
If not, fades will never have vertical reach.
more fade blink talk here:
<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=111448&st=20&start=20" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/in...20&start=20</a>
I agree that you get disoriented, but it is better than not being able to choose which direction, and adding the function of choosing which direction too face would make it too "clunky" imo and quick blinking would be harder, I think we all just need to play some more with the current blink.
You blink to where you aim as now, but before you pop into reality you get to look around briefly (and choose your orientation).
So you could aim up at the ceiling, blink, hang there for a second, then pop in and fall to the ground as normal.
You blink to where you aim as now, but before you pop into reality you get to look around briefly (and choose your orientation).
So you could aim up at the ceiling, blink, hang there for a second, then pop in and fall to the ground as normal.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That sounds like a possible solution.
You blink to where you aim as now, but before you pop into reality you get to look around briefly (and choose your orientation).
So you could aim up at the ceiling, blink, hang there for a second, then pop in and fall to the ground as normal.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Great suggestion. This is the way it needs to work.
I guess time spent in between blinks would use up your adrenaline, so you would not simply be able to hide in blink limbo every time you are in danger.
This could work, however I preferred if it was an option only. Should I wish to blink again after hitting next to a marine it would change my sight to somewhere else I perhaps wouldnt want it. There is also possibility of you not being in range for the autoaim or if you jump between two you do not know for sure which one you are facing causing pointless disorientation.
In big fights where there is a lot of action diversion is usually necessery before the aliens can engage fully. Fade's "new" blink ability is a great way to open the battle. Single blink is in the end quite predictable thus multiple blinks are necessery.
<!--quoteo(post=1810836:date=Nov 26 2010, 05:36 PM:name=Shockwave)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Shockwave @ Nov 26 2010, 05:36 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1810836"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->So, whilst we now have 'The Blink We Always Wanted But Never Got' from NS, we still have the issue that, much like skulk view orientation, whilst the Fade as a critter might be able to handle the disorientation caused by shifting instantaneously from point to point, players behind monitors & using computers cannot quite so easily. Compound this with being shot at, and you can get Fades merrily crashing into walls because the exit is now over <i>there</i>, rather than over <i>here</i>.
<b>Suggestion</b>:
Rework how Blink works just for the point of view of the Fade player.
<b>Proposal</b>:
Fade player starts blink, the screen overlays with a similar effect to how it looks to everyone else when he blinks and is immediately rendered <i>fast</i>, invisible, invincible and able to clip through players and objects easily (not geometry). As he can still see the game world, he can choose his facing, and retain some level of understanding on where enemy players will be in relation to his exit point. When he lets go of blink / bar runs out / timer (delete to taste) the overlay comes off, and his model reappears into existance exactly as now.
<b>Result</b>:
From the Marine point of view, nothing whatsoever has changed. The Fade still appears to teleport from place to place, with perhaps half a second longer between appearances as the Fade player will need to move. For the Fade player, he can more easily control exactly where he ends up, and control his facing freely to take advantage of the chaos this causes, such as blocking the view behind marines, etc, exactly like the Fade reveal trailer.
This has an added potential twist in combat, as a Fade can use this to quickly close on Marine players, or even use it as a very temporary 'cloak' when ambushing rather than assaulting, by simply blinking, not moving at all as the Marines come past, then reappearing behind them. Net impact might be to open up more 'varieties' of Fade play, with the ambush concept Fade being a viable alternative or complement to more 'assault' orientated Fades.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
this is an excellent suggestion and can work with the following tweaks perfectly.
<!--quoteo(post=1810849:date=Nov 26 2010, 06:04 PM:name=Align)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Align @ Nov 26 2010, 06:04 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1810849"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Possible balance measure: it takes a moment to "warp out", while popping into reality is instant.
Problem with that is that at high levels this gives the fade roughly enough time for one swipe and escape blink...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1810871:date=Nov 26 2010, 07:20 PM:name=yourbonesakin)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (yourbonesakin @ Nov 26 2010, 07:20 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1810871"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Increase the fade's jumping height to 10 feet or so while blinking in invisible invincible mode and I'd love it.
If not, fades will never have vertical reach.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
all of these are very good and reasonable tweaks to the main idea, and could be implemented and balanced.
for my taste, it doesn't make much difference if a fade just instantly teleports away, or if he instantly goes into blink mode.
all it does is allow the fade more control over where and how he wants to appear.
also, the timer should be really, really short, and the move speed strongly increased. I am talking about 1-2 seconds and +>200% here. this would require skilled timing if the fade wants to "hide and ambush", and create a feeling of uneasiness and short time to prepare for the marines who hear the blink in sound, but don't know when or where the fade will pop up.
also, this allows the fade to blink around corners, which could be balanced with a longer "cool down time" on the ability.
<!--quoteo(post=1811025:date=Nov 27 2010, 04:16 AM:name=Align)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Align @ Nov 27 2010, 04:16 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1811025"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Inevitable Compromise Suggestion:
You blink to where you aim as now, but before you pop into reality you get to look around briefly (and choose your orientation).
So you could aim up at the ceiling, blink, hang there for a second, then pop in and fall to the ground as normal.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
this is also an excellent idea which can work perfectly if done right.
I support both wholeheartedly.
-Darktimes, long time forum lurker.
an option to not auto face would be nice, like say, holding ctrl or shift, but not left mouse.
And ofc, get rid of the annoying stuff like targetting buildings over marines (also, targetting power nodes that have already been destroyed while im on my way towards the enemy base? thats just annoying)
The only problem that i can see with my suggestion really is that it might make resource consumption on your computer spike whenever you try to tele (having to render twice)
(posted this in the other thread too)
I mean, looking at 2 images overlapping when you have to blink quickly in a rapid combat situation with buildings, skulks, marines and everything going on.
I mean, looking at 2 images overlapping when you have to blink quickly in a rapid combat situation with buildings, skulks, marines and everything going on.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
yeah, you're right, i was imagining this in a more ambush style fade, when you actually have time to differentiate between the images, making it easier after the teleport to start attacking without warning. My way wouldnt change a thing in assault style fade teleporting because you usually just double right click, so you wouldnt even get time to see the overlay, all it would do in that situation is contribute to lag.
Maybe if different solutions were implemented depending on the upgrades you get? so a more assault style teleport for assault fades and a more ambush style for ambush fades?
or maybe thats just making it too difficult and a universal solution would be better, dunno, not a game designer.
+1
+1<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
like the negromonger leader in chronicles of rid######. the only thing i could see a problem with is that you'll never be able to kill fades unless this "netherworld movement" comes at a good deal of cost to energy. you can't have a fade be able to 3 swipe a marine, then immediately blink (netherworld run) behind the next guy, 3 swipe him, and then blink behind the next guy, 3 swipe him and then still have energy left to get away.
every second running in the netherworld during a blink should significantly lower energy. the shade can have a fade upgrade that lessens the energy used during blink.
...that was from the other thread.
And speaking of - can we merge the two threads? It is somewhat humorous that this thread was created by a forum moderator after the other thread - perhaps the same moderator can join them?
<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=111448" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/in...howtopic=111448</a>
* Blink makes you invisible
* Blink lets you clip through marines, marine structures and most important you are ignored by hitscan weapons. explosives deal reduced damage
* The twist: FLY mode a la unreal engine type games (100% aircontrol, gravity not applied, you fly where you point) - "noclip" is to powerfull and eats to much power itself (hall of mirrors anyone? or xray wallhacks showing the whole map? good bye, ambient occlution).
* Blink duration needs to be playtested, but at its end you fade in with a "warp flash" thats not providing lightning to the geometry around you.
* Blink makes you invisible
* Blink lets you clip through marines, marine structures and most important you are ignored by hitscan weapons. explosives deal reduced damage
* The twist: FLY mode a la unreal engine type games (100% aircontrol, gravity not applied, you fly where you point) - "noclip" is to powerfull and eats to much power itself (hall of mirrors anyone? or xray wallhacks showing the whole map? good bye, ambient occlution).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is pretty much the exact basis of my suggestion.
tk-421, I've used a seperate thread because it's a seperate Idea/Suggestion, that just happens to be about resolving the same issue, a perception that the new Blink could be implemented in a better way. I'll happily take a second Moderator opinion on it, but it seemed the more appropriate thing to do. *Grin*
i remove the model/texture from view, you want to do... something else.
Also, from your text, you wouldnt be able to use blink to get up to higher places.
I'd also remove falling damage after landing the first time after blink, just in case.