fade gameplay

derWalter

<div class="IPBDescription">could it get as fast as it is in ns1?</div>today i looked to two videos which showed fadegameplay

gorgerush vs u go: <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l-OOIVC9a2E" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l-OOIVC9a2E</a>
ns2hd on public: <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iYYcqg-oYoo" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iYYcqg-oYoo</a>


and i ask myself, will it be possible to be as fast as in ns1???

i mean, next to AG-mod i loved ns for its speed! and the speed makes much more sense :P


lets talk about it and <b>show some videos of your fastest ns2 fadegamestyle!</b>

scorpydude

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->gorgerush vs u go: <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l-OOIVC9a2E" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l-OOIVC9a2E</a><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

oh man that brings back so many good memories... so much better then ns2's 'plans'.

christ i miss ns1... so amazing.

but like every other games company... UWE probably want their game to be an 'esport' ... the same crap that killed the uniqueness of most other games out there...

but when you dont have an alien com etc, its pretty hard to balance a game... so homogenization is what happens... sigh.

yourbonesakin

Depending on the cooldown of blink, it could get really fast. Some videos with a high FPS and a quick fade would be t3h awesome.

FluffyM

<!--quoteo(post=1810265:date=Nov 25 2010, 10:15 AM:name=scorpydude)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (scorpydude @ Nov 25 2010, 10:15 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1810265"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->but like every other games company... UWE probably want their game to be an 'esport' ... the same crap that killed the uniqueness of most other games out there...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

The stupidity of that sentence is so immense, I can't think of a fitting insult.

derWalter

there is a COOLDOWN for fadeblink????????????

yourbonesakin

I think it's pretty small.

yourbonesakin

Double post.

yourbonesakin

<!--quoteo(post=1810265:date=Nov 25 2010, 05:15 AM:name=scorpydude)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (scorpydude @ Nov 25 2010, 05:15 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1810265"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->but like every other games company... UWE probably want their game to be an 'esport' ... the same crap that killed the uniqueness of most other games out there...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You mean like how Blizzard doesn't want Diablo 3 to be an esport like SC2 is?

Not every company wants their game to be an esport.

NurEinMensch

If you can't blink across the map in 8 seconds you're doing it wrong.

Quovatis

I just wish your orientation would stay the same when you blink. In the heat of battle, it's easy to get disoriented when you come out of a blink turned 90 degrees from how you started. I know you'd be facing walls more, but at least you can predict that.

Runteh

<!--quoteo(post=1810410:date=Nov 25 2010, 06:09 PM:name=Quovatis)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Quovatis @ Nov 25 2010, 06:09 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1810410"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I just wish your orientation would stay the same when you blink. In the heat of battle, it's easy to get disoriented when you come out of a blink turned 90 degrees from how you started. I know you'd be facing walls more, but at least you can predict that.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

I agree with this, but speed is not a problem anymore. When you are a marine and a fade blinks, even if they may be facing a certain direction it is really hard to know where they have reappeared.

If it was made a lot faster, fade would become a dominating class like in ns1, rather than filling a role.

The game should be tailored to 'what is right/the truth' not 'i loved being the fade coz i cud pWn'...

Asraniel

i actually love that you face the nearest target when blinking.

That beeing said, a modifier key to remove that ability would be nice, for example if you need to get out of a room quickly

MuYeah

Blink maximum distance should be cut by <b>at least</b> two thirds and the auto-viewpoint thing, while very cool, should be removed.

Also, it should be a hold down to get the target destination marker up/release to trigger the blink instead of click/click.

This will allow two things:
1.) Blink less disorienting to use and more control over where you go/aim at when you're the fade.
2.) Less frustrating for marines, seeing as now it's almost binary where you either shoot the fade and he dies once he blinks in or he gets out again in a millisecond ready to heal up. It gives good marines a better chance to get the fade but also allows the fade more creativity to their movement.

My proposed suggestions will maintain the coolness of blink, while levelling out the skill based effort/reward curve involved.


These changes:
A crappy fade will blink repeatedly in a straight line, crappy marines will still be shooting walls/feet/each other but most likely able to get the fade. Good marines will shoot it easily.
A good fade will blink up/down/sideways similarly to a lerk in NS1, bad marines will hit less, good marines have a good chance.



Basically on-par players will now have an equal chance of winning a fight and more creativity/skill/fun for everyone.

Atone

<!--quoteo(post=1810484:date=Nov 25 2010, 09:40 PM:name=MuYeah)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MuYeah @ Nov 25 2010, 09:40 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1810484"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Blink maximum distance should be cut by <b>at least</b> two thirds and the auto-viewpoint thing, while very cool, should be removed.

Also, it should be a hold down to get the target destination marker up/release to trigger the blink instead of click/click.

This will allow two things:
1.) Blink less disorienting to use and more control over where you go/aim at when you're the fade.
2.) Less frustrating for marines, seeing as now it's almost binary where you either shoot the fade and he dies once he blinks in or he gets out again in a millisecond ready to heal up. It gives good marines a better chance to get the fade but also allows the fade more creativity to their movement.

My proposed suggestions will maintain the coolness of blink, while levelling out the skill based effort/reward curve involved.


These changes:
A crappy fade will blink repeatedly in a straight line, crappy marines will still be shooting walls/feet/each other but most likely able to get the fade. Good marines will shoot it easily.
A good fade will blink up/down/sideways similarly to a lerk in NS1, bad marines will hit less, good marines have a good chance.



Basically on-par players will now have an equal chance of winning a fight and more creativity/skill/fun for everyone.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

I can't support lowering the blink range. If anything, I want it longer. I still think it's too early to be seriously discussing balance. Right now I think the priority should be making the Fade feel like Nightcrawler, if Nightcrawler had crazy sword-claws for hands.

MuYeah

<!--quoteo(post=1810490:date=Nov 25 2010, 08:48 PM:name=Atone)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Atone @ Nov 25 2010, 08:48 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1810490"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I can't support lowering the blink range. If anything, I want it longer. I still think it's too early to be seriously discussing balance. Right now I think the priority should be making the Fade feel like Nightcrawler, if Nightcrawler had crazy sword-claws for hands.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->


As far as I'm concerned balance is down to numbers. All I suggested are basic gameplay solutions.

Wheeee

no way, i love the max distance. what should happen is the detection radius of the auto-rotation should be shrunk down to melee distance, and fade's swipe should be given slightly more range, perhaps that of a skulk bite or a little longer.

Bacillus

Mu's suggestion sounds good. The crazy range is one of the things that makes blink quite unresponsive right now. A slight miss in aim can make you miss huge amounts in actual gameplay and there's no proper feedback for it.

Also, could there be some kind of momentum on the blink exit in case the fade wants to do so? For example you could dive at marines or ledges. Right now blinking lacks any kind of fluency. You're always teleporting to a target you can see, so for example blinking up a ledge requires some weird ceiling blink and followup from there. With momentum you could just blink midair and use to momentum to land on the ledge instead of just dropping straight down. I think it would feel a lot more natural than just teleporting and having absolutely no actual movement speed at any point. Attacking marines around the corners would be a lot more awesome too.

Nightcrawler has momentum too if it matters.

MuYeah

The problem with large max distance blink is the lack of choice, creativity of movement and overall predictability. That's just from the fade's perspective. For marines it's almost like a cloak/focus situation where you either kill or you don't. The fade is either in the room or out of the room. There is no in-between, no distinction and most importantly of all: no room for growth as a player as your skill with the ability increases.

The most fun abilities in multiplayer games are when it's almost like a game of cat and mouse between the two opponents. Current blink does not offer that.

Wheeee

<!--quoteo(post=1810510:date=Nov 25 2010, 05:12 PM:name=MuYeah)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MuYeah @ Nov 25 2010, 05:12 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1810510"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The problem with large max distance blink is the lack of choice, creativity of movement and overall predictability. That's just from the fade's perspective. For marines it's almost like a cloak/focus situation where you either kill or you don't. The fade is either in the room or out of the room. There is no in-between, no distinction and most importantly of all: no room for growth as a player as your skill with the ability increases.

The most fun abilities in multiplayer games are when it's almost like a game of cat and mouse between the two opponents. Current blink does not offer that.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

but you can shorten the blink distance by aiming down. if you shorten the max distance by 2/3s, a skulk would be able to outrun a fade.

_Thresh_

I found blinking slightly 'up' gave me time to know where I was before I hit the ground

Don't mind the idea of a forward only blink though, like a fade sprint.

Escaping marine spawn is tricky with turret spam

since you're always facing the turret

Jumping between two and its lottery of the 'which way am i facing'

Again blinking slightly 'up' fixes the problem when you can do it

deathshroud

with a mod they could remove the fade jump select and instead make u jump striaght away, that would increase fade speed by alot. Best solution would be to have the fade select always present but change it from a fad model to something a little less detailed like a swirly sprite.