you patch the games 3-4 times with no real significant changes and you decide to turn it into a closed beta? haha good one. didn't realize uwe was trolling the entire community.
i expect a 2012 release at this point, and by then it will still need patches and fixes. the release will probably be the equivalent of a beta.
You really expect jubilant support after a string of PR blunders since "Fall 2009"? The community are now paying customers. Maybe you should sit down as a team and discuss damage control, because all this negative feedback stems from how much the community loved NS and want to see NS2 be a success for your benefit and for ours. Obviously you are not going to back down now, so use this negative feedback to (re)kindle the fire.
<b>You have many, many players banking on NS2 to be the next big competitive team game</b>. Once you hammer out the network lag, fps drops, and input lag "feel" of the game, we will back you in no time at all. If the game is good, they will come.
<!--quoteo(post=1807653:date=Nov 20 2010, 11:34 PM:name=bl1tz)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (bl1tz @ Nov 20 2010, 11:34 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1807653"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->you patch the games 3-4 times with no real significant changes and you decide to turn it into a closed beta? haha good one. didn't realize uwe was trolling the entire community.
i expect a 2012 release at this point, and by then it will still need patches and fixes. the release will probably be the equivalent of a beta.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
yeah that is being a bit uber super pessimistic. yes according to me and maybe you there has not been any significant changes. I still have yet to play a single game and I have 5 hours logged in trying. But to others it seems to get slowly better. I think what many found to be the problem is the whole jumping out the beta without staying in touch with the community. I know we are not direct stakeholders and you don't need to keep us in touch all the time. But it was a big leap and many just felt excluded and worried more than anything. I think what Flayra and Cory said is something that should have been said earlier. Like Cory said its an indie made game and there is not a lot of money and resources etc. Hence the strength is in the community.
It is just frustrating to say you can have access to an alpha, most us never can even play a single full game for months...then out of the blue say its a beta and still can't play it and you just get negative in response because we don't know what is happening. People fill in the blanks if they don't have the right info. We all know this is a huge undertaking and wish you all the best though! I was just explaining why I think there is so much negative feedback.
Hot CoffeeJoin Date: 2010-11-03Member: 74744Members, Constellation
edited November 2010
<!--quoteo(post=1807653:date=Nov 20 2010, 06:34 PM:name=bl1tz)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (bl1tz @ Nov 20 2010, 06:34 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1807653"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->you patch the games 3-4 times with no real significant changes and you decide to turn it into a closed beta? haha good one.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> If you can't tell the difference between Build 155 and Build 154 or any other builds for that matter, just don't give feedback. You're either very bad at it, have a welfare computer, or both. Feedback like this hurts the community and the developers. You would be hard pressed to find anyone willing to work their job night and weekends unless it was their regular shift, especially for this kind of "thanks."
For the people complaining about the people expressing concern over the state of the game - please bear in mind that the majority of those comments were based on: 1) a number of patches leading up to 153 all of which were claimed to improve/fix performance lag etc 2) a game at patch 153 that wasn't very improved 3) no reason to expect improved performance the next day
As it is, huzzah for UWE's improvements, let's hope they can keep it up.
And after UWE fix this memory leak, I want to read what say all this people when they will be able to play 5 hours straight with no major problems.
I have a 4 years old computer with a 2 years old video card and I can play it, and if someone ask me I tell them to buy it, and if they don't ask me I tell them to buy it. For me NS is the best game ever created, and NS2 is all what I wanted to see on NS.
I still remember being playing NS for 12 hours, and nothing else. Now with other games I be 1 hour and then I get bored.
Since the first Alpha release the game is much improved. And in the last 2 patches this improvement is huge. I passed from only be able to play locally to play in Internet and have a lot of fun. Yes, even with the memory leak.
Cory (and all of UWE), don't worry about the bad comments, they just don't understand. They think it is blowing and making bottles, but we all know that it takes much more than that.
<!--quoteo(post=1807686:date=Nov 20 2010, 04:28 PM:name=Arcadian)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Arcadian @ Nov 20 2010, 04:28 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1807686"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Should the forums have more moderation?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> The forums do have moderation. Although some are like me, active in moderating years ago but not entirely sure of my status now that I've come back after a long gap. I do know that I'm not going to suppress anyone's right to an opinion, whether I strongly disagree with it or not. Mods are just there to weed out the blatant flaming and swearing and so on.
On the topic, I do feel that beta version that was released was a drastic improvement. Most of my worries have been resolved. Yes, there are still some issues, but it feels much more like everything is moving in the right direction. I feel confident that by the next patch I could easily recommend this to friends as a playable beta. (Just that lingering server crash memory leak bug that's keeping me from doing so immediately)
To all the negative posters, complaining isn't going to help anything. If you have issues with the state of the game, at least try and keep your criticism constructive, or keep it to yourself. The developers are (obviously) actively reading your comments. Try to realize that this is their baby that they have dedicated YEARS of their lives to. They really don't need low content insulting commentary on their work. Until you personally have started a project to build your own commercial quality game with a small dev team and gotten it up to playable status, try to be a little more humble in your approach to commenting on it.
I guess this shows that lying to the community to raise money typically has backlash. I'm not saying it was willful; UWE could have really believed they were ready for beta release (although that too doesn't say good things, to me). However, they had to know what the public perception of a Beta is, regardless of how they choose to define it. That's the point of doing a move like this; people know what a beta is, and want it, and thus they're willing to pay money for it.
Hey, I still want to see the game playable and released; I'm not rooting for UWE's downfall (they do have my money, after all). But there's a reason I didn't drop money on it when it was in alpha. Joke's on me, I guess, because it still is.
With 155 the game is finally starting to get funny for me.. patiently waiting for more to come. Take your time, I've got enough stuff to do meanwhile :)
I usually don't really post anything here but just wait for some release and check out the news now and then. But seems like you'd need some heads up.. so.. I love your work and what you are doing. NS2 will happen and it will be awesum. The direction the game is heading - perfect. And well.. I'll preorder a third copy, hopefully that helps a bit.
Edit: I LOVE that awesome picture of the four of you after checkout. :D
I think there is a misunderstanding to some degree... yes there is negativity. But the majority of that negativity if of the constructive variety. I believe i can speak for most people around here when i say: I want NS2 to succeed and especially because of that i see it as an wrong move to go beta right now and couple that with an PR move like sending a trailer to gametrailers.com.
If you think the negativity right now is depressing, just wait till all the feedback from people that never heard from UWE/NS before starts coming in. It will be ALOT worse then what has been said till now....
We can allways point and say "hah you don't know what beta means!" to the majority of people it won't make a difference, they won't and can't understand. They still will tell other people about their bad experience and suggest them to stay away from this game as far as possile. That's why i really dislike this move, not because i feel cheated or something but because i seriously believe it's gonna damage NS2 in the longterm.
And the worst thing about this is that you actually had other alternatives, you have a dedicated core fanbase make use of it! If you would have come to this forum and said "hey people, we are running out of money we might be forced to release a beta to push sales again! what can we do?" i'm certain a majority of the people around here would have gladly said "tell us what you need we are willing to donate money!". Heck i would have easily spent another $40 on the game and i believe i'm not exception with that...
Personaly i would be okay with waiting another 4-6 months until this whole thing gets into a really playble state for everybody even after i donated extra money, but i'm an exception in the grand sheme of customers. The majority of the customers you gonna attract trough sites like joystick/gametrailers won't be that forgiving. They will be way more critizising then anything you have seen so far, so if you think it's been bad so far you haven't seen the worst of it yet....
I am SICK by all this outright holier-than-thou attitude that's been going on against the developers. It's like a smoke in my nose.
YOU PAID FOR A GAME. THAT'S IT. This isn't your company, this isn't your livelihood. You did not write laws on game development, nor did you have any true say on when UWE should release the closed beta. Any time they listen to the community, it's of their own accord, and not because it's their obligation. Some of you are puffed up.
<!--quoteo(post=1807803:date=Nov 20 2010, 11:02 PM:name=Arcadian)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Arcadian @ Nov 20 2010, 11:02 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1807803"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Why are you beating a dead horse?
I am SICK by all this outright holier-than-thou attitude that's been going on against the developers. It's like a smoke in my nose.
YOU PAID FOR A GAME. THAT'S IT. This isn't your company, this isn't your livelihood. You did not write laws on game development, nor do you have any say in what UWE does. Any time they listen to the community, it's of their own accord, and not because it's their obligation. Some of you are puffed up.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1807806:date=Nov 20 2010, 10:06 PM:name=Donner & Blitzen)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Donner & Blitzen @ Nov 20 2010, 10:06 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1807806"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Have you even been reading this thread?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Aren't you blind? A lot of posts are coming from people who think they know much better than the developers and they seem to keep trying to hold what they did under their nose. Just forget the past, forgive and move on. The devs are busy coding the game not dealing with the inverted morals of a few gamers.
I'm <b>extremely </b>sorry to say this and thus twist the knife in the wound, but the truth is you guys brought the negativity onto yourselves by mis-managing this situation. If you would have released the current beta build (and perhaps the up-coming Monday patch) to your alpha community first and prepared them for the beta stage, I'm pretty sure this would have gone completely different. As far as I've seen (I've preordered the special edition, but never installed it yet), the community was completely taken by surprise by the announcement, they really didn't have many arguments to support you with and were genuinely concerned from the moment of the announcement about your financial problems. The fact you guys have been hyping stability/playability for a couple of patches already without actually delivering and allowed this thread to grow up to 8 pages until the first dev comment didn't help either, the community simply couldn't vouch for the unreleased beta based on the previous content and this was reflected in the feedback in the media.
<!--QuoteBegin-Squeal_Like_A_Pig+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Squeal_Like_A_Pig)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteEBegin-->And who is saying that? People in the comments section of those sites? So where are you? We need people like you to post in those comment sections, to link them to those NS2HD movies, to try and explain to people what the game is really like and the progress that we have made on it. Rather then being upset that people are judging us harshly, we need our fans to be out there protecting their investment, showing pride in a game which they are helping to form and mold.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I've seen this on RockPaperShotgun and NS2HD's videos came up in the first comments. You guys still have the benefit of TRUST from us and many of the folks who remember NS1, however the cat is out of the bag and now it's really up to you to prove it can purr after the scratch. There's a wonderful game behind this mess-up and the community is just recovering and starting to see the light at the end of the tunnel. Time to help them reach it.
P.S. This topic needs to go down under. Guys, let's let it die.
<!--quoteo(post=1807814:date=Nov 21 2010, 03:19 AM:name=Arcadian)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Arcadian @ Nov 21 2010, 03:19 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1807814"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Just forget the past, forgive and move on. The devs are busy coding the game not dealing with the inverted morals of a few gamers.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Joe Public don't do that without compromise. Equally some people expect better, others have their own opinion.
You can't tell people how to live, feel and think, the only thing you can do is try to understand how others feel and think. If you can't, it's best you ignore it as every one is entitled to their own opinion on both sides.
<!--quoteo(post=1807713:date=Nov 20 2010, 07:27 PM:name=Eldon)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Eldon @ Nov 20 2010, 07:27 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1807713"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Cory since you're reading this thread can we please get a reply in the donation thread.
Cheers!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Promoting your thread in another thread... just sad.
Kouji_SanSr. Hινε UÏкεεÏεг - EUPT DeputyThe NetherlandsJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
<!--quoteo(post=1807839:date=Nov 21 2010, 03:58 AM:name=WhiteZero)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (WhiteZero @ Nov 21 2010, 03:58 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1807839"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Promoting your thread in another thread... just sad.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> wai so sad!
I'm <b>extremely </b>sorry to say this and thus twist the knife in the wound, but the truth is you guys brought the negativity onto yourselves by mis-managing this situation. If you would have released the current beta build (and perhaps the up-coming Monday patch) to your alpha community first and prepared them for the beta stage, I'm pretty sure this would have gone completely different. As far as I've seen (I've preordered the special edition, but never installed it yet), the community was completely taken by surprise by the announcement, they really didn't have many arguments to support you with and were genuinely concerned from the moment of the announcement about your financial problems. The fact you guys have been hyping stability/playability for a couple of patches already without actually delivering and allowed this thread to grow up to 8 pages until the first dev comment didn't help either, the community simply couldn't vouch for the unreleased beta based on the previous content and this was reflected in the feedback in the media.
I've seen this on RockPaperShotgun and NS2HD's videos came up in the first comments. You guys still have the benefit of TRUST from us and many of the folks who remember NS1, however the cat is out of the bag and now it's really up to you to prove it can purr after the scratch. There's a wonderful game behind this mess-up and the community is just recovering and starting to see the light at the end of the tunnel. Time to help them reach it.
P.S. This topic needs to go down under. Guys, let's let it die.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Completely agree here. Dont make the mistake to blame the community's negativity on the community. Man up and accept that you did a mistake in the management of the community.
To me, it often seems like as if you are 99% focusing on actual game development and think that a nice trailer is enough as regards PR. You know, your community is your largest asset and if your community is not behind you, you are in trouble. You felt it at this beta release and you'll feel it in the future if you dont involve us more (more information just as Max latest blog post please!). The announcement of the beta after all the rather disappointing patches (compared to the hype that was generated over Twitter) was a slap in the face to many. If you had explained the situation in detail beforehand and also let us test the beta patch at least for some days instead of jumping the gun, this would have gone completely different Im 100% sure.
I'm also seeing you like surprises. You like them so much to the point where I think it's really counter-productive. In Max's latest blog post I also noticed that you want to keep <i>again</i> certain "things" in the secret to allow for a nice surprise on release day. Why the secrecy? Have some trust in the community and dont try to surprise us constantly, I dont even get what that should achieve.
<!--quoteo(post=1807845:date=Nov 20 2010, 11:02 PM:name=w0dk4)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (w0dk4 @ Nov 20 2010, 11:02 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1807845"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Completely agree here. Dont make the mistake to blame the community's negativity on the community. Man up and accept that you did a mistake in the management of the community.
To me, it often seems like as if you are 99% focusing on actual game development and think that a nice trailer is enough as regards PR. You know, your community is your largest asset and if your community is not behind you, you are in trouble. You felt it at this beta release and you'll feel it in the future if you dont involve us more (more information just as Max latest blog post please!). The announcement of the beta after all the rather disappointing patches (compared to the hype that was generated over Twitter) was a slap in the face to many. If you had explained the situation in detail beforehand and also let us test the beta patch at least for some days instead of jumping the gun, this would have gone completely different Im 100% sure.
I'm also seeing you like surprises. You like them so much to the point where I think it's really counter-productive. In Max's latest blog post I also noticed that you want to keep <i>again</i> certain "things" in the secret to allow for a nice surprise on release day. Why the secrecy? Have some trust in the community and dont try to surprise us constantly, I dont even get what that should achieve.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
w0dk4 you're forgetting that before they started doing regular twitter updates, they had few at all. It was some in the forums that wanted more so they started doing more. They know what they're posting about on twitter. They've built the game engine from scratch. They're excited about it as well. But they aren't lying to you, neither did they from all the twitter posts I've read. You hyped yourself up, and you don't deserve an apology, (for your own mistake). Now if you deny that you're talking about yourself, or that you weren't one of those who were hyped up, like you said in your post. Then why talk about something like that when you know what actually happened?
<!--quoteo(post=1807855:date=Nov 21 2010, 05:17 AM:name=Arcadian)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Arcadian @ Nov 21 2010, 05:17 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1807855"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->w0dk4 you're forgetting that before they started doing regular twitter updates, they had few at all. It was some in the forums that wanted more so they started doing more. They know what they're posting about on twitter. They've built the game engine from scratch. They're excited about it as well. But they aren't lying to you, neither did they from all the twitter posts I've read. You hyped yourself up, and you don't deserve an apology, (for your own mistake). Now if you deny that you're talking about yourself, or that you weren't one of those who were hyped up, like you said in your post. Then why talk about something like that when you know what actually happened?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Good way to evade learning from mistakes. Just find someone to blame, like <i>the community</i>.
<!--quoteo(post=1807860:date=Nov 21 2010, 04:33 AM:name=w0dk4)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (w0dk4 @ Nov 21 2010, 04:33 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1807860"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Good way to evade learning from mistakes. Just find someone to blame, like <i>the community</i>.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Wait, I'm lost, who is blaming who?
I've not heard anyone from UWE actually point any fingers, or even hint at it. :S
I think the problem is that with a very open development process, you also need to communicate very carefully to avoid misunderstandings. The upside to "public" alpha is that you get a lot of eyes on the product, the downside is that they're people who want to play the game for fun when it isn't fun yet and thus are bound to be frustrated. It's not fair to expect the public to understand the realities of game development and know what to expect. If you're going to provide people with this intimate view of the game in early development, you also need to explain to them what they're seeing.
When most of the community was unable to play a real match in the alpha and then they found out via the gaming press that the beta is imminent, of course they react poorly. Nobody likes being cut out of the loop and the one-day notice was strange by any game's standards. People could only speculate that maybe UWE is broke or maybe they're out of touch and don't realize the game is so rough. Clarifying immediately via a blog post that the beta was being released to get more eyes on it would have helped, as would waiting just another few days to get the game into its current state or better.
<!--quoteo(post=1807590:date=Nov 20 2010, 10:07 PM:name=Squeal_Like_A_Pig)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Squeal_Like_A_Pig @ Nov 20 2010, 10:07 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1807590"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->We wish everyone would understand how harmful this negativity is, not just to those of us who are working hard to make a great game for you, but to the future of this game and company as well. Yes, people complaining and telling everyone this game is not worth buying really hurts pre order sales. And that lack of money coming in puts the development of this game in serious jeopardy. We understand people want a fun, polished playing experience, and they want it now, but if this constant stream of public negativity continues it may mean NS2 never comes out at all.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
As I see it, most people in this thread understand that very well. I can't say that I had a lot of fun <i>playing</i> the alpha versions or current beta, but I didn't pre-order to have fun. I wanted to support you, get an insight into the development and test the early versions. And I'm enjoying it! But I have been following NS/NS2 for years. Most people on here are not complaining about the quality of the game, but what others might think of it. Those who aren't familiar with the NS2 development approach. They might expect something else from a beta than what NS2 currently is. I think most of us are just concerned about what those guys might tell their friends or post on gaming sites etc.
Also, announcing the immediate release of the beta patch without any large scale testing was worrying. (Keep in mind a lot of the posts here were made before beta release.) And rightfully so. Most patches had one or two major bugs that were overlooked. And beta wasn't different. I don't understand why you didn't release the patch to the alpha crowd first. You could have fixed the bugs Max is talking about on the blog page, made sure everything was working and THEN made it public. Would have been so much smoother.
<!--quoteo(post=1807868:date=Nov 20 2010, 11:53 PM:name=Zek)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Zek @ Nov 20 2010, 11:53 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1807868"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It's not fair to expect the public to understand the realities of game development...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> How is this not fair? The majority of gamers have failed on this however.
<!--quoteo(post=1807872:date=Nov 21 2010, 12:06 AM:name=Raza.)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Raza. @ Nov 21 2010, 12:06 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1807872"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I don't understand why you didn't release the patch to the alpha crowd first. You could have fixed the bugs Max is talking about on the blog page, made sure everything was working and THEN made it public. Would have been so much smoother.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> It would have been, but it didn't happen that way. They did what they decided to do. There's no sense reminding the developers over some spilt milk.
Comments
i expect a 2012 release at this point, and by then it will still need patches and fixes. the release will probably be the equivalent of a beta.
<b>You have many, many players banking on NS2 to be the next big competitive team game</b>. Once you hammer out the network lag, fps drops, and input lag "feel" of the game, we will back you in no time at all. If the game is good, they will come.
i expect a 2012 release at this point, and by then it will still need patches and fixes. the release will probably be the equivalent of a beta.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
yeah that is being a bit uber super pessimistic. yes according to me and maybe you there has not been any significant changes. I still have yet to play a single game and I have 5 hours logged in trying. But to others it seems to get slowly better. I think what many found to be the problem is the whole jumping out the beta without staying in touch with the community. I know we are not direct stakeholders and you don't need to keep us in touch all the time. But it was a big leap and many just felt excluded and worried more than anything. I think what Flayra and Cory said is something that should have been said earlier. Like Cory said its an indie made game and there is not a lot of money and resources etc. Hence the strength is in the community.
It is just frustrating to say you can have access to an alpha, most us never can even play a single full game for months...then out of the blue say its a beta and still can't play it and you just get negative in response because we don't know what is happening. People fill in the blanks if they don't have the right info. We all know this is a huge undertaking and wish you all the best though! I was just explaining why I think there is so much negative feedback.
If you can't tell the difference between Build 155 and Build 154 or any other builds for that matter, just don't give feedback. You're either very bad at it, have a welfare computer, or both. Feedback like this hurts the community and the developers. You would be hard pressed to find anyone willing to work their job night and weekends unless it was their regular shift, especially for this kind of "thanks."
--Cory<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Should the forums have more moderation?
1) a number of patches leading up to 153 all of which were claimed to improve/fix performance lag etc
2) a game at patch 153 that wasn't very improved
3) no reason to expect improved performance the next day
As it is, huzzah for UWE's improvements, let's hope they can keep it up.
I have a 4 years old computer with a 2 years old video card and I can play it, and if someone ask me I tell them to buy it, and if they don't ask me I tell them to buy it.
For me NS is the best game ever created, and NS2 is all what I wanted to see on NS.
I still remember being playing NS for 12 hours, and nothing else. Now with other games I be 1 hour and then I get bored.
Since the first Alpha release the game is much improved. And in the last 2 patches this improvement is huge. I passed from only be able to play locally to play in Internet and have a lot of fun. Yes, even with the memory leak.
Cory (and all of UWE), don't worry about the bad comments, they just don't understand. They think it is blowing and making bottles, but we all know that it takes much more than that.
The forums do have moderation. Although some are like me, active in moderating years ago but not entirely sure of my status now that I've come back after a long gap. I do know that I'm not going to suppress anyone's right to an opinion, whether I strongly disagree with it or not. Mods are just there to weed out the blatant flaming and swearing and so on.
On the topic, I do feel that beta version that was released was a drastic improvement. Most of my worries have been resolved. Yes, there are still some issues, but it feels much more like everything is moving in the right direction. I feel confident that by the next patch I could easily recommend this to friends as a playable beta. (Just that lingering server crash memory leak bug that's keeping me from doing so immediately)
To all the negative posters, complaining isn't going to help anything. If you have issues with the state of the game, at least try and keep your criticism constructive, or keep it to yourself. The developers are (obviously) actively reading your comments. Try to realize that this is their baby that they have dedicated YEARS of their lives to. They really don't need low content insulting commentary on their work. Until you personally have started a project to build your own commercial quality game with a small dev team and gotten it up to playable status, try to be a little more humble in your approach to commenting on it.
Cheers!
Hey, I still want to see the game playable and released; I'm not rooting for UWE's downfall (they do have my money, after all). But there's a reason I didn't drop money on it when it was in alpha. Joke's on me, I guess, because it still is.
I usually don't really post anything here but just wait for some release and check out the news now and then. But seems like you'd need some heads up.. so.. I love your work and what you are doing. NS2 will happen and it will be awesum. The direction the game is heading - perfect. And well.. I'll preorder a third copy, hopefully that helps a bit.
Edit:
I LOVE that awesome picture of the four of you after checkout. :D
I think there is a misunderstanding to some degree... yes there is negativity. But the majority of that negativity if of the constructive variety.
I believe i can speak for most people around here when i say: I want NS2 to succeed and especially because of that i see it as an wrong move to go beta right now and couple that with an PR move like sending a trailer to gametrailers.com.
If you think the negativity right now is depressing, just wait till all the feedback from people that never heard from UWE/NS before starts coming in. It will be ALOT worse then what has been said till now....
We can allways point and say "hah you don't know what beta means!" to the majority of people it won't make a difference, they won't and can't understand. They still will tell other people about their bad experience and suggest them to stay away from this game as far as possile. That's why i really dislike this move, not because i feel cheated or something but because i seriously believe it's gonna damage NS2 in the longterm.
And the worst thing about this is that you actually had other alternatives, you have a dedicated core fanbase make use of it! If you would have come to this forum and said "hey people, we are running out of money we might be forced to release a beta to push sales again! what can we do?" i'm certain a majority of the people around here would have gladly said "tell us what you need we are willing to donate money!". Heck i would have easily spent another $40 on the game and i believe i'm not exception with that...
Personaly i would be okay with waiting another 4-6 months until this whole thing gets into a really playble state for everybody even after i donated extra money, but i'm an exception in the grand sheme of customers. The majority of the customers you gonna attract trough sites like joystick/gametrailers won't be that forgiving. They will be way more critizising then anything you have seen so far, so if you think it's been bad so far you haven't seen the worst of it yet....
I am SICK by all this outright holier-than-thou attitude that's been going on against the developers. It's like a smoke in my nose.
YOU PAID FOR A GAME. THAT'S IT. This isn't your company, this isn't your livelihood. You did not write laws on game development, nor did you have any true say on when UWE should release the closed beta. Any time they listen to the community, it's of their own accord, and not because it's their obligation. Some of you are puffed up.
I am SICK by all this outright holier-than-thou attitude that's been going on against the developers. It's like a smoke in my nose.
YOU PAID FOR A GAME. THAT'S IT. This isn't your company, this isn't your livelihood. You did not write laws on game development, nor do you have any say in what UWE does. Any time they listen to the community, it's of their own accord, and not because it's their obligation. Some of you are puffed up.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Have you even been reading this thread?
"Reads thread title"
"WTF!"
"Ragepost"
Aren't you blind? A lot of posts are coming from people who think they know much better than the developers and they seem to keep trying to hold what they did under their nose. Just forget the past, forgive and move on. The devs are busy coding the game not dealing with the inverted morals of a few gamers.
I'm <b>extremely </b>sorry to say this and thus twist the knife in the wound, but the truth is you guys brought the negativity onto yourselves by mis-managing this situation. If you would have released the current beta build (and perhaps the up-coming Monday patch) to your alpha community first and prepared them for the beta stage, I'm pretty sure this would have gone completely different. As far as I've seen (I've preordered the special edition, but never installed it yet), the community was completely taken by surprise by the announcement, they really didn't have many arguments to support you with and were genuinely concerned from the moment of the announcement about your financial problems. The fact you guys have been hyping stability/playability for a couple of patches already without actually delivering and allowed this thread to grow up to 8 pages until the first dev comment didn't help either, the community simply couldn't vouch for the unreleased beta based on the previous content and this was reflected in the feedback in the media.
<!--QuoteBegin-Squeal_Like_A_Pig+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Squeal_Like_A_Pig)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteEBegin-->And who is saying that? People in the comments section of those sites? So where are you? We need people like you to post in those comment sections, to link them to those NS2HD movies, to try and explain to people what the game is really like and the progress that we have made on it. Rather then being upset that people are judging us harshly, we need our fans to be out there protecting their investment, showing pride in a game which they are helping to form and mold.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I've seen this on RockPaperShotgun and NS2HD's videos came up in the first comments. You guys still have the benefit of TRUST from us and many of the folks who remember NS1, however the cat is out of the bag and now it's really up to you to prove it can purr after the scratch. There's a wonderful game behind this mess-up and the community is just recovering and starting to see the light at the end of the tunnel. Time to help them reach it.
P.S. This topic needs to go down under. Guys, let's let it die.
Joe Public don't do that without compromise. Equally some people expect better, others have their own opinion.
You can't tell people how to live, feel and think, the only thing you can do is try to understand how others feel and think. If you can't, it's best you ignore it as every one is entitled to their own opinion on both sides.
Cheers!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Promoting your thread in another thread... just sad.
wai so sad!
I'm <b>extremely </b>sorry to say this and thus twist the knife in the wound, but the truth is you guys brought the negativity onto yourselves by mis-managing this situation. If you would have released the current beta build (and perhaps the up-coming Monday patch) to your alpha community first and prepared them for the beta stage, I'm pretty sure this would have gone completely different. As far as I've seen (I've preordered the special edition, but never installed it yet), the community was completely taken by surprise by the announcement, they really didn't have many arguments to support you with and were genuinely concerned from the moment of the announcement about your financial problems. The fact you guys have been hyping stability/playability for a couple of patches already without actually delivering and allowed this thread to grow up to 8 pages until the first dev comment didn't help either, the community simply couldn't vouch for the unreleased beta based on the previous content and this was reflected in the feedback in the media.
I've seen this on RockPaperShotgun and NS2HD's videos came up in the first comments. You guys still have the benefit of TRUST from us and many of the folks who remember NS1, however the cat is out of the bag and now it's really up to you to prove it can purr after the scratch. There's a wonderful game behind this mess-up and the community is just recovering and starting to see the light at the end of the tunnel. Time to help them reach it.
P.S. This topic needs to go down under. Guys, let's let it die.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Completely agree here. Dont make the mistake to blame the community's negativity on the community. Man up and accept that you did a mistake in the management of the community.
To me, it often seems like as if you are 99% focusing on actual game development and think that a nice trailer is enough as regards PR. You know, your community is your largest asset and if your community is not behind you, you are in trouble. You felt it at this beta release and you'll feel it in the future if you dont involve us more (more information just as Max latest blog post please!).
The announcement of the beta after all the rather disappointing patches (compared to the hype that was generated over Twitter) was a slap in the face to many. If you had explained the situation in detail beforehand and also let us test the beta patch at least for some days instead of jumping the gun, this would have gone completely different Im 100% sure.
I'm also seeing you like surprises. You like them so much to the point where I think it's really counter-productive. In Max's latest blog post I also noticed that you want to keep <i>again</i> certain "things" in the secret to allow for a nice surprise on release day.
Why the secrecy? Have some trust in the community and dont try to surprise us constantly, I dont even get what that should achieve.
To me, it often seems like as if you are 99% focusing on actual game development and think that a nice trailer is enough as regards PR. You know, your community is your largest asset and if your community is not behind you, you are in trouble. You felt it at this beta release and you'll feel it in the future if you dont involve us more (more information just as Max latest blog post please!).
The announcement of the beta after all the rather disappointing patches (compared to the hype that was generated over Twitter) was a slap in the face to many. If you had explained the situation in detail beforehand and also let us test the beta patch at least for some days instead of jumping the gun, this would have gone completely different Im 100% sure.
I'm also seeing you like surprises. You like them so much to the point where I think it's really counter-productive. In Max's latest blog post I also noticed that you want to keep <i>again</i> certain "things" in the secret to allow for a nice surprise on release day.
Why the secrecy? Have some trust in the community and dont try to surprise us constantly, I dont even get what that should achieve.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
w0dk4 you're forgetting that before they started doing regular twitter updates, they had few at all. It was some in the forums that wanted more so they started doing more. They know what they're posting about on twitter. They've built the game engine from scratch. They're excited about it as well. But they aren't lying to you, neither did they from all the twitter posts I've read. You hyped yourself up, and you don't deserve an apology, (for your own mistake). Now if you deny that you're talking about yourself, or that you weren't one of those who were hyped up, like you said in your post. Then why talk about something like that when you know what actually happened?
Good way to evade learning from mistakes. Just find someone to blame, like <i>the community</i>.
Wait, I'm lost, who is blaming who?
I've not heard anyone from UWE actually point any fingers, or even hint at it. :S
When most of the community was unable to play a real match in the alpha and then they found out via the gaming press that the beta is imminent, of course they react poorly. Nobody likes being cut out of the loop and the one-day notice was strange by any game's standards. People could only speculate that maybe UWE is broke or maybe they're out of touch and don't realize the game is so rough. Clarifying immediately via a blog post that the beta was being released to get more eyes on it would have helped, as would waiting just another few days to get the game into its current state or better.
As I see it, most people in this thread understand that very well. I can't say that I had a lot of fun <i>playing</i> the alpha versions or current beta, but I didn't pre-order to have fun. I wanted to support you, get an insight into the development and test the early versions. And I'm enjoying it! But I have been following NS/NS2 for years. Most people on here are not complaining about the quality of the game, but what others might think of it. Those who aren't familiar with the NS2 development approach. They might expect something else from a beta than what NS2 currently is. I think most of us are just concerned about what those guys might tell their friends or post on gaming sites etc.
Also, announcing the immediate release of the beta patch without any large scale testing was worrying. (Keep in mind a lot of the posts here were made before beta release.) And rightfully so. Most patches had one or two major bugs that were overlooked. And beta wasn't different. I don't understand why you didn't release the patch to the alpha crowd first. You could have fixed the bugs Max is talking about on the blog page, made sure everything was working and THEN made it public. Would have been so much smoother.
How is this not fair? The majority of gamers have failed on this however.
<!--quoteo(post=1807872:date=Nov 21 2010, 12:06 AM:name=Raza.)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Raza. @ Nov 21 2010, 12:06 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1807872"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I don't understand why you didn't release the patch to the alpha crowd first. You could have fixed the bugs Max is talking about on the blog page, made sure everything was working and THEN made it public. Would have been so much smoother.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It would have been, but it didn't happen that way. They did what they decided to do. There's no sense reminding the developers over some spilt milk.